Rebel we're on the same page...I posted the same earlier in this thread.Actually, there would be Android without the iPhone, but it looked like this:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1588133&postcount=623
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What is APPLE planning?
- Thread starter NetViper
- Start date
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1588133&postcount=623
And yet the iPhone was not the first phone of that form factor either. Consider the Toshiba E550G, for example:
Obviously not the same as the iPhone, but the same basic form factor: large touch screen, large physical home button centered at the bottom. The hardware buttons on this Toshiba are replaced by soft buttons on the iPhone, but they're still in generally the same place and perform the same functions.
This phone came out in 2002, a full five years before the iPhone.
But keep on believin' -- Apple invented it; Google copied it.
God those Windows mobile smartphones were pieces of crap. They may have the same form factor as the first modern smartphones, but that's about it. Crappy resistive screens, stylus only operation, an OS that's on par with Windows 3.0, and non-existent battery life. I'm so glad I didn't waste my money on one. My Palm Pilot was a far better device and way cheaper.
No argument that they were pieces of crap. But the post above was about form factor, and not quality, and therefore the comparison is apt.
lol that phone has no relation to the iPhone, nor does the iPhones form factor even closely resemble it. If you're going to be the Fandroid representative, at least bring the proper comparisons. The LG Prada is the inspiration for the iPhone which is what most of your brethren claim.And yet the iPhone was not the first phone of that form factor either. Consider the Toshiba E550G, for example:
Obviously not the same as the iPhone, but the same basic form factor: large touch screen, large physical home button centered at the bottom. The hardware buttons on this Toshiba are replaced by soft buttons on the iPhone, but they're still in generally the same place and perform the same functions.
This phone came out in 2002, a full five years before the iPhone.
But keep on believin' -- Apple invented it; Google copied it.
I never claimed Apple 'invented' that form factor, I said Apple was the first to see success/set the trend with their style of smartphone & touch UI, along with the MacBook Air's success which spawned the copy-cat ultrabook segment. Why do Fandroid's have such a tough time giving credit where credit is due? It's even more difficult when the credit is being given to Apple.
Why isn't there a Google thread for the Fandroid's? Make your own thread and make all the grandiose claims you want.
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Apple copies LG, and I'm supposed to celebrate Apple, but if Google copies Apple, they're some kind of big evil.
Everybody copies everybody. It's this competition of continuous improvement that has resulted in the wonderful phones we have today, whether they're iOS, Android, or Windows. The iPhone 4S is a great phone; but that doesn't mean that the Samsung Galaxy S3 sucks. I use an Android phone because it has key features that the iPhone does not provide. If there ever was an iPhone that had those features, I would sincerely consider it.
lol that phone has no relation to the iPhone, nor does the iPhones form factor even closely resemble it. If you're going to be the Fandroid representative, at least bring the proper comparisons. The LG Prada is the inspiration for the iPhone which is what most of your brethren claim.
I never claimed Apple 'invented' that form factor, I said Apple was the first to see success/set the trend with their style of smartphone & touch UI, along with the MacBook Air's success which spawned the copy-cat ultrabook segment. Why do Fandroid's have such a tough time giving credit where credit is due? It's even more difficult when the credit is being given to Apple.
Why isn't there a Google thread for the Fandroid's? Make your own thread and make all the grandiose claims you want.
I know you know it's not true, so this is just a rhetorical question about when people make this argument: How does the Prada become the "inspiration" for the iPhone when it was announced in December 2006 with no official images until January 18, 2007, and the iPhone was publicly announced and demoed on January 9, 2007? Apple would have to be the most agile design company in the universe, coupled with the most speedy hardware prototyping team ever.
Just to be clear, I never said Apple copied LG, just stating the fandroid perspective but Google is notorious for evil/shady business tactics.
- Yelp gets popular? Copy their info, shove Yelp to the bottom of the page and put Google Places and reviews at the top.
- Groupon won't sell? Spend billions from other businesses to destroy them.
- Twitter and Facebook innovate on search? Take their content, whine when they try and stop you then spend billions to prevent their growth and hopefully destroy them.
- Apple working on a touchscreen smartphone? Spend billions from another business and copy everything you can, down to swipes and apps.
- Need a smartphone operating system with Java. Take Java and use it for your own ends.
- Need a location mapping technology and Skyhook won't sell? Spend billions from your monopoly profits and strongarm your partners and drive Skyhook out of business.
- Claim Paid Inclusion is evil, yet embrace it after no one remembers you said it was evil.
That's not true. Generally someone innovates a new idea (the iPhone) which becomes a huge success and the rest of the field (Android/Windows Mobile/Blackberry/Palm) play catch up. You are proving my point that when the credit is being given to Apple, Fandroids become irrational, and go to any measure to deny it.
Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board, you've seen what the original Android phone was supposed to be and where it evolved to with the G1, yet Google didn't copy Apple, right? Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
If that's all you got to discredit me, then try harder buddy. The facts are not on your side.
The LG Prada was announced in December of 2006, the official press release was on Jan 18, 2007.
The iPhone was officially announced Jan 9, 2007 at MacWorld. Steve Jobs demo'd a full working iPhone, not some kind of prototype.
Exactly how much do you think they copied from LG in less than a month, with no specs or pricing mentioned by LG?? iPhone development started as early as 2005 btw.
Shhhh logic and reasoning are not welcome in the presence of Fandroids.
lol Tag teamed! Well done to the both of you.
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I was only using Jack Sparrow's example. Blame him for the comparo, not me.
Fair enough. Do you think Apple copied another company/phone for the iPhone? Just asking. Most Apple haters say they copied the LG Prada, Palm, Windows Mobile.. etc, because they had touch screens before the iPhone or some other reason.
No, I do not think this.
What I do think is that there has been a continuum of mobile phone advancement over the past decades. A sort of natural selection is at play that determines which designs survive, and which thrive -- but instead of genetic mutation as a driving force, it's the invisible hand of the market. Products that succeed in the market are emulated and expanded upon; products that fail are discarded.
Contrary to Jack Sparrow's assertions, I am not a "Fandroid"; nor am I an iHater. I work with all sorts of devices throughout my day; indeed, I am typing this on a MacBook Pro 5,4 (15", 2.53GHz, Mid 2009), upgraded to 8 GB RAM + 128 GB SSD, and running Mountain Lion DP.
Jobs admitted there's no shame in stealing ideas, but I think it is a bit hypocritical to do that and then turn around and sue everyone else for doing the same to you. Apple doesn't need to resort to that tactic to succeed.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J0UjU0rtavE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J0UjU0rtavE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Just because Jobs said that doesn't mean he or Apple was OK with the abolishment of patents or intellectual property protection.
-Jim
You do also understand the subtleties in that statement, right? Basically, "copying" means you see something and you do the same thing, with no creativity. "Stealing" which means actually taking possession of something, means you take the idea you saw and then make it a part of your thinking process. What he is talking about is taking ideas from everywhere and then incorporating that knowledge into the process of creating your own ideas. Obviously everyone is guilty of copying some things, but it's a good thing to learn lessons from what others have done in order to make your own products better.
For example, if you see the iPhone in 2007 and how fluid, interactive touch UIs really can work, then when you use that knowledge to create Windows Phone 7, that's not copying anything, but you did learn some lessons to incorporate into your own products.
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No, I don't do subtle very well. I tend to think pretty literally, so a lot of stuff goes over my head, but thanks for trying to explain it to me.
Excellent point. At least Win 7 attempted something new and different with Metro. It wasn't an out-and-out copy down to the even the color and look of similar icons. Google and Samsung didn't start with Apple's technology and build on and adapt to create something new they just aped what Apple did.
-J
Who cares who copy who. Apple make great products. Easy to use and pretty reliable. They have a lot of nice apps and between their product you can have the same apps without having to pay extra. For me that is enough reasons. I am getting Macbook Pro Retina hopefully next month (my first Apple computer). Already have the ipad for almost a month and very happy with it.
I ditch my android phone due to unupgradable (2010 Dell streak) amd the lack of nice and compatible apps.
I ditch my android phone due to unupgradable (2010 Dell streak) amd the lack of nice and compatible apps.
Long post time. I got in a stock of Retina MacBooks; here are some impressions:
1) The screen is amazing. Like, unbelievably amazing. Easily the best laptop screen I have ever seen, and I've been in this business for over 20 years. That said...
2) Apps that do not take advantage of the Retina look bad; worse than a regular Mac. For a simple example, I brought up the same web page in Safari and Firefox on the Retina, and on my regular 15" Mac. On the regular Mac, the page looked fine. In Safari on the Retina, the page looked stunning. But in Firefox on the Retina, it just looked bad. Lots of stair-casing and anti-aliasing artifacts. As apps get updated this should get better, but for now, about one month in, it's not so good.
3) I was surprised how fast the Retina Mac is. My older Mac is no slouch, with 8 GB RAM and an SSD, but the Retina with its Core i7 processor and other improvements is noticeably faster, and makes my regular Mac (which I previously thought quite speedy) feel sluggish.
4) Multiple monitors on the Retina is super cool and super easy. I plugged in three externals (two via Thunderbolt, one with HDMI using Monoprice MDP-to-DVI and HDMI-to-DVI cables), and they all popped up perfectly at optimum resolution. I could rearrange them however I liked in the Displays system preferences easily. However...
5) Multiple monitors really points out what I feel is a profound weakness of Mac OSX vs Windows -- the menu bar sticks to the top of the primary display. This design fails miserably when your active window is three screens over, and you need to access something from the menu. In the Windows world, where the menu sticks to the top of each window, this is a non-issue. If Apple is truly going to finally embrace the multi-monitor world, they should make this an option in a forthcoming OSX version.
6) Much has been written about the lack of an optical drive and ethernet port. Honestly, this is probably no big deal for most people. My regular Mac has a broken optical drive, and I think perhaps five times in the past year I missed it and had to seek out an alternative. When I've got a 32 GB thumb drive on my key chain (=about four DVDs, or one BD, or pretty much the full series of Game of Thrones in HD), it's just rare that I need a disc for anything. My company has already deployed a whole bunch of Airs, and I keep a few Superdrives in inventory just in case someone needs to read a disc -- it rarely comes up.
Ethernet is a bigger deal, in my opinion, but the Thunderbolt-to-GBe dongle solves this OK. I already keep a variety of dongles in my backpack (MDP-to-VGA, MDP-to-HDMI, etc.); one more won't kill me. Or, just leave it attached to the cable at one's desk -- you have to plug in when you sit down anyway; it doesn't make a difference if you plug in with an Ethernet jack or with the dongle. Only downside is if you're rocking the four screen configuration, you can't do this.
7) MagSafe 2 pisses me off. There was nothing wrong with the old MagSafe, and the old MagSafe would have fit just fine on the Retina (it fit on the pre-2012 Airs, and no one complained). I think Apple changed it just so they could sell more $79 power supplies. I've got lots of extra MagSafe 1 supplies; now I gotta spend a bunch more money to get spare MagSafe 2 supplies. And don't tell me about $10 adapters -- that little bugger is guaranteed to get lost on a typical business trip. The only place I'm using them is on Thunderbolt displays (with their infernal non-replaceable cables), and even there I'm thinking about Krazy-gluing them into place.
8) Cost-wise, the Retinas are not as expensive as they first appear. If you take a regular 15" MacBook Pro, upgrade the RAM to 8GB (std on the Retina), upgrade to SSD (std on the Retina), and pick the higher resolution screen (which is still not even close to Retina), then the price becomes comparable to the Retina. Since I usually buy 15" MacBook Pros anyway, I will probably only buy Retinas from here out. Hopefully my Apple rep will give me my discount back -- I placed this order on the first day, and got the discount, but then she called back later that day and told me that she'd honor the discount for this order, but because of the overwhelming popularity of the Retinas any future orders will be at full retail. I suppose that will subside in time.
Cheers!
1) The screen is amazing. Like, unbelievably amazing. Easily the best laptop screen I have ever seen, and I've been in this business for over 20 years. That said...
2) Apps that do not take advantage of the Retina look bad; worse than a regular Mac. For a simple example, I brought up the same web page in Safari and Firefox on the Retina, and on my regular 15" Mac. On the regular Mac, the page looked fine. In Safari on the Retina, the page looked stunning. But in Firefox on the Retina, it just looked bad. Lots of stair-casing and anti-aliasing artifacts. As apps get updated this should get better, but for now, about one month in, it's not so good.
3) I was surprised how fast the Retina Mac is. My older Mac is no slouch, with 8 GB RAM and an SSD, but the Retina with its Core i7 processor and other improvements is noticeably faster, and makes my regular Mac (which I previously thought quite speedy) feel sluggish.
4) Multiple monitors on the Retina is super cool and super easy. I plugged in three externals (two via Thunderbolt, one with HDMI using Monoprice MDP-to-DVI and HDMI-to-DVI cables), and they all popped up perfectly at optimum resolution. I could rearrange them however I liked in the Displays system preferences easily. However...
5) Multiple monitors really points out what I feel is a profound weakness of Mac OSX vs Windows -- the menu bar sticks to the top of the primary display. This design fails miserably when your active window is three screens over, and you need to access something from the menu. In the Windows world, where the menu sticks to the top of each window, this is a non-issue. If Apple is truly going to finally embrace the multi-monitor world, they should make this an option in a forthcoming OSX version.
6) Much has been written about the lack of an optical drive and ethernet port. Honestly, this is probably no big deal for most people. My regular Mac has a broken optical drive, and I think perhaps five times in the past year I missed it and had to seek out an alternative. When I've got a 32 GB thumb drive on my key chain (=about four DVDs, or one BD, or pretty much the full series of Game of Thrones in HD), it's just rare that I need a disc for anything. My company has already deployed a whole bunch of Airs, and I keep a few Superdrives in inventory just in case someone needs to read a disc -- it rarely comes up.
Ethernet is a bigger deal, in my opinion, but the Thunderbolt-to-GBe dongle solves this OK. I already keep a variety of dongles in my backpack (MDP-to-VGA, MDP-to-HDMI, etc.); one more won't kill me. Or, just leave it attached to the cable at one's desk -- you have to plug in when you sit down anyway; it doesn't make a difference if you plug in with an Ethernet jack or with the dongle. Only downside is if you're rocking the four screen configuration, you can't do this.
7) MagSafe 2 pisses me off. There was nothing wrong with the old MagSafe, and the old MagSafe would have fit just fine on the Retina (it fit on the pre-2012 Airs, and no one complained). I think Apple changed it just so they could sell more $79 power supplies. I've got lots of extra MagSafe 1 supplies; now I gotta spend a bunch more money to get spare MagSafe 2 supplies. And don't tell me about $10 adapters -- that little bugger is guaranteed to get lost on a typical business trip. The only place I'm using them is on Thunderbolt displays (with their infernal non-replaceable cables), and even there I'm thinking about Krazy-gluing them into place.
8) Cost-wise, the Retinas are not as expensive as they first appear. If you take a regular 15" MacBook Pro, upgrade the RAM to 8GB (std on the Retina), upgrade to SSD (std on the Retina), and pick the higher resolution screen (which is still not even close to Retina), then the price becomes comparable to the Retina. Since I usually buy 15" MacBook Pros anyway, I will probably only buy Retinas from here out. Hopefully my Apple rep will give me my discount back -- I placed this order on the first day, and got the discount, but then she called back later that day and told me that she'd honor the discount for this order, but because of the overwhelming popularity of the Retinas any future orders will be at full retail. I suppose that will subside in time.
Cheers!
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Google Says Some Apple Inventions Are So Great They Ought to Be Shared
Google is getting desperate.
http://allthingsd.com/20120720/goog...-made-some-apple-patents-de-facto-essentials/
Whats mine is mine but whats yours is up for debate. I hope Apple destroys them with their new patents.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/18/apple-granted-the-mother-of-all-smartphone-software-patents/
Google is getting desperate.
http://allthingsd.com/20120720/goog...-made-some-apple-patents-de-facto-essentials/
Whats mine is mine but whats yours is up for debate. I hope Apple destroys them with their new patents.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/18/apple-granted-the-mother-of-all-smartphone-software-patents/
Re: Google Says Some Apple Inventions Are So Great They Ought to Be Shared
Wow. If you can't kill them with innovation, kill them in the courts. And they say Phandroids are haters...
Wow. If you can't kill them with innovation, kill them in the courts. And they say Phandroids are haters...
