What is APPLE planning?

[Hard Five]

From experience in other (but similar space) domains, configurable hardware doesn't allow for the most robust, enhanced & optimized software. I'm trivializing it a bit, but long-story-short: iOS is what made the iPhone what it was...

iOS was undoubtedly a game changer... in 2007.

I would argue Apple made a phone that was years ahead of the competition, which gave the iphone an unbelievable advantage and their practice of strictly limiting what the phone can and can't do works well with their market base that just wants products to work (non-upgradable laptops, imacs, etc.). Every other "smartphone" in 07 was a bad copy, and few "just worked". Android came along and the OS developed to a polished product. Were pretty far from the original release of the iphone; most phones now operate in basically the same manner and "look" the same to the user. Icons, app stores, camera, texting; it's all the same.

The OS differences might matter to some users, but a lot, and I'd say the majority of people who want a smartphone are deciding by specific features ("better" camera) and design aesthetics. My wife could care less about iphone/android, 64 bit architecture, and custom roms, but 4in vs a phablet is a huge deal. For people who don't need some specific high end spec, a phone that is customizable, but at the same time is easy to use and "just works" could be a huge deal. The nexus line shows a phone will sell very well if it has good, but not cutting edge specs, so long as the design hits the mark. I see this as an evolution of mid tier phones.

 

[Yinzer]

With all the buzz about Apple bringing some amazing new things soon and most of it centered on the iwatch and wearables, what are your thoughts on its potential for you personally and/or for the general public? I can see the draw for athletic trainer types who are data-obsessed. I used to train for biking 20 years ago would have ordered an iwatch to replace my heart rate monitor & notebook on day 1 back in 1998. But I'm just not seeing the big carrot for the general public unless Apple 1) finds a way to shock the world and replace the cellphone completely, or 2) introduces some new universal must-have functionality like the iPad that that doesn't currently exist and that I just can't foresee but convinces us all to add another piece of expensive hardware into our daily lives, or 3) (or maybe this is a variabion of #2), the iwatch technology gets reinvents some new aspect within the healthcare world. I think it's safe to say that 99% of us keep our phones on our person or within reach virtually 24/7 so there's definitely big payoff potential to replace it with something more convenient and less drop-prone. But for my current lifestyle, I can't see replacing my already too-small iPhone screen with something smaller, nor am I so married to my iPhone that I need to add a second piece of hardware into my life for easier access to notifications or text messages or games/apps.
Real curious to see where this year goes w/Apple and hoping to get re-excited over AAPL again after my dismay with iOS7's step backwards!

 

[nsxotic911]

With all the buzz about Apple bringing some amazing new things soon and most of it centered on the iwatch and wearables, what are your thoughts on its potential for you personally and/or for the general public? I can see the draw for athletic trainer types who are data-obsessed. I used to train for biking 20 years ago would have ordered an iwatch to replace my heart rate monitor & notebook on day 1 back in 1998. But I'm just not seeing the big carrot for the general public unless Apple 1) finds a way to shock the world and replace the cellphone completely, or 2) introduces some new universal must-have functionality like the iPad that that doesn't currently exist and that I just can't foresee but convinces us all to add another piece of expensive hardware into our daily lives, or 3) (or maybe this is a variabion of #2), the iwatch technology gets reinvents some new aspect within the healthcare world. I think it's safe to say that 99% of us keep our phones on our person or within reach virtually 24/7 so there's definitely big payoff potential to replace it with something more convenient and less drop-prone. But for my current lifestyle, I can't see replacing my already too-small iPhone screen with something smaller, nor am I so married to my iPhone that I need to add a second piece of hardware into my life for easier access to notifications or text messages or games/apps.
Real curious to see where this year goes w/Apple and hoping to get re-excited over AAPL again after my dismay with iOS7's step backwards!

If iWear provides all of these health and fitness data points, I think it has the power to revolutionize our health mindset as a culture. This would not be the first time in recent history, but has the potentially to be much more. For example, I see the Subway Jared ad back in the day as being a catalyst to 'healthier' food decisions in American diet culture. McDonalds has salads, and they sell for example. Sure, we are still obese, and diabetic, but we are getting better - and I believe it's Subway

Have this data so easily - how many calories taken in, burned, heart rate etc... all of these things make for better decision making. If you decide to be ignorant and disrecard the data that is - literally - right in front of you, then you're willfully choosing to be ignorant.

As a every day athlete, I'm looking forward to wearables.

 

[Yinzer]

I'm still unconvinced that non-athletes will share this enthusiasm and that this will be the biggest Next Thing ever. There are already apps at our fingertips for tracking calories and workouts and such. I personally don't think a wearable with an even smaller screen will inspire the common user to jump aboard. Maybe if you could dip the thing into the food and auto-read the calories, but....

I must be being short-sighted given such enthusiasm by so many:

http://m1.marketwatch.com/articles/BL-MWCODYB-2826?mobile=y&mobile=y

I was "an athlete" in my 20's who trained daily and who would have gobbled this type of thing up back then. Now I'm a regular guy who hasn't worn a watch in years since my iphone is always on hand or in pocket, who can already barely stomach the idea of spending $500+ every other year for a tablet or smartphone or laptop let alone add a 4th thing into the mix, who lately has occasionally been feeling "burdened" over the inescapable feeling of needing to always have the phone on my person and who isn't too interested in adding a second one with an even smaller screen, and who doesn't need a quicker/easier way to post frequent photo statuses/updates to Facebook as I'm too busy living life and keeping my eye on what's in front of me instead of buried on the viewfinder of a camera app. I always thought a tablet would be a great idea even in the 90's and was completely into the Walkmans of the 80's, so I was very into iPods from the getgo, but what am I missing about wearables and their potential impact to non-athletes and regular folk? Just because I can't see a personal need and can't sense a worldly common need, I'm still keeping an eye out for any investment potential. It's hard to do that when you can't physically relate to something.

 

[NetViper]

Anyone have this problem.

http://bgr.com/2014/08/13/macbook-pro-graphics-card-bug/

Seems pretty bad.

 

[NSXrebel]

No problems here, Late 2013 15" MBPr.

 

[flaminio]

Awesome stuff today. Retina 5K iMac is just insane -- I want to price one out with everything maxxed just to see.

Thinner iPad Air -- cool, but the previous iPad Air was pretty damn thin to begin with.

I dig the updated iPad Mini and Mac Mini

Did they say what "It's been too long" actually referenced?

Two things missing:

1) A 5K Thunderbolt display. The current crop of Thunderbolt displays still use MagSafe 1 ferchrissakes!

2) Retina MacBook Air. I've been wanting this for years. And Yosemite (at least the DPs) looks like ass on a low resolution display. It's been way too long since the Air had a modern screen.

 

[NSXrebel]

That iMac is nice, especially for the price.

Nice to see the Mac Mini go back down to it's original entry price of $499

 

[NetViper]

Im getting the air 2. Time for an upgrade.

I'm not sure why it can't do 240 fps slow mo video though

 

[NSXrebel]

Im getting the air 2. Time for an upgrade.

I'm not sure why it can't do 240 fps slow mo video though

I thought they demo'd it doing slo-mo?

My sisters are upgrading from an iPad mini and iPad mini Retina to the new iPad minis.

 

[Arshad]

1) A 5K Thunderbolt display. The current crop of Thunderbolt displays still use MagSafe 1 ferchrissakes!

The issue is that it's using DP1.2 and you cannot drive a 5120x2880 display over a single HBR2 cable -- it's beyond the bandwidth spec.

 

[flaminio]

The issue is that it's using DP1.2 and you cannot drive a 5120x2880 display over a single HBR2 cable -- it's beyond the bandwidth spec.

Maybe next year, do you think? New Macbook Pros, Macbook Airs (with Retina displays), and a new 5K Thunderbolt display all with display bandwidth that can handle the resolution? I know a whole bunch of people who would love stuff like that.

 

[NetViper]

Maybe next year, do you think? New Macbook Pros, Macbook Airs (with Retina displays), and a new 5K Thunderbolt display all with display bandwidth that can handle the resolution? I know a whole bunch of people who would love stuff like that.

It will be interesting to see what happens with monitors. Nobody makes one that resolution, and if apple is the only one that uses it, I don't think we will see a lot of support for that resolution.

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I thought they demo'd it doing slo-mo?

My sisters are upgrading from an iPad mini and iPad mini Retina to the new iPad minis.

It has 120 fps slow mo, but not 240 like the iphone.

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The issue is that it's using DP1.2 and you cannot drive a 5120x2880 display over a single HBR2 cable -- it's beyond the bandwidth spec.

I would think that video chipset would have trouble pushing anything game related at low resolution, let alone 5K. Most PC's cant even drive 4K for gaming with $1000 worth of video cards.

 

[NSXrebel]

iOS 8 is now jailbroken, for those of you still interested in that. The tool is called Pangu, same folks that brought an iOS 7 jailbreak. For now the tool is only available for Windows and Chinese language, doesn't come bundled with Cydia, but they are working on it. In order to get Cydia on the iPhone, you need to jailbreak first, install OpenSSH thru the Pangu app, SSH into your iPhone and install Cydia manually. More info at ModMyi.com



http://9to5mac.com/2014/10/25/cvs-b...or-of-currentc/comment-page-1/#comment-221019

Also, looks like CVS has disabled all their NFC terminals at their stores because Pay works with those terminals even though they never officially jumped on the Pay system. They did this because CVS and a consortium of other stores are planning to roll out their own payment method called CurrentC. The way it works is you go to pay for your items and the terminal at the cashier will display a QR code that you will have to scan with an app on your smartphone. Once your smartphone scans the code, it will generate another QR code that the cashier in turn will have to scan to complete the transaction.

To top it off, these stores in order to cutoff the middleman, i.e. the credit card companies and not pay a transaction fee, will tie CurrentC to your checking account, and for some reason will have access to your health data as well.

With credit card fraud responsibility falling on banks starting next year I think, I wonder who the responsibility falls on in case of fraud with CurrentC. My guess, the customer is getting screwed.

So in order to try and stop Pay, they are turning off NFC terminals, which means those using Google Wallet are also getting the shaft. Way to go.

 

[Gansan]

Yes, it's very interesting, this battle of the payment systems. CurrentC is also designed to capture customer transaction data for later mining, which is the opposite of Apple Pay, which keeps customer privacy intact. Merchants probably don't like that, but it removes the possibility of Target/Home Depot style mega data hacks.

 

[Yinzer]

I'm personally surprised that Apple is calling it Apple Pay. Seems a company can get only so big and have its name out there so much before joe public pushes back due to overexposure, and I think Apple is a bit due for that phenomenon. After all, the american way is to prop something up, tear it down (especially if it slips up over something or fails to maintain the "zing" that caused people to fall in love with it), then prop it back up again. Think the american auto industry, Microsoft (ultra hip and new and exciting in the early 90's, saving us from MSDOS commands, only to later earn hatred for expensive and buggy reinventions of Windows/Office every so often but w/o any real improvement), any given american presidency...

Just seems that calling it Apple Pay is feeling like one company is getting a little too involved too often in my life, for me at least...

Not a troll or Hater. Still an Apple product user (upgrading my Ipad 1 and/or iPhone 4 within next 2 months) even if a lot of its post-Jobs post-Forstall work leaves me feeling less satisfied than before.

 

[jond]

^^^ The problem is if they simply called it 'NFC Payment' then everyone would know they're copying something google did 5 years ago.
For google, it wasn't even news worthy, it was just a 'hey we did this this weekend, check it out'.
Sounds like I'm being a troll, sorry. True though.

 

[FF Drifter]

Merchants probably don't like that, but it removes the possibility of Target/Home Depot style mega data hacks.

Reduces the possibility. I think there will continue to be large scale retailer breaches for a while, but this will eventually shift over to more targeting of NFC payment devices directly because a) those using NFC payment tend to self-select and are probably higher income/more valuable targets and b) NFC payment will probably become more pervasive/common. It'll take a few years but the bad guys will move over.

 

[Jimbo]

^^^ The problem is if they simply called it 'NFC Payment' then everyone would know they're copying something google did 5 years ago.
For google, it wasn't even news worthy, it was just a 'hey we did this this weekend, check it out'.
Sounds like I'm being a troll, sorry. True though.

Yeah, Google did it before but like so many other things Google does, they did it haftfast.

Did Google go the extra mile to align and sign up banks and merchants like Apple has?

 

[FF Drifter]

Yeah, Google did it before but like so many other things Google does, they did it haftfast.

Did Google go the extra mile to align and sign up banks and merchants like Apple has?

Yes, Google did. They partnered with some of the largest banks immediately and worked with retailers that already had existing NFC systems offered through MasterCard. Visa and Discover joined in afterwards. Apple had quite a bit of luxury in coming later to the game because by then, many retailers already had NFC systems and those who were on the fence now had the upmarket justification they needed to adopt them as well. Those are the ones that were announced as initial partners of Apple Pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Wallet#Partners
https://www.google.com/wallet/shop-in-stores/

 

[Gansan]

Reduces the possibility. I think there will continue to be large scale retailer breaches for a while, but this will eventually shift over to more targeting of NFC payment devices directly because a) those using NFC payment tend to self-select and are probably higher income/more valuable targets and b) NFC payment will probably become more pervasive/common. It'll take a few years but the bad guys will move over.

Definitely the safety is in the fact that an Apple Pay user's CC info will just never exist in a retailer's database, and that will be a minority of customers for many years. So data theft will continue to happen at retailers. What I meant was that if I never use my credit card at Target--only Apple Pay, then when Target is hacked again, my credit card data is not going to be in their database. So the possibility of hacking for *me* is removed, at Target.

You're right that the hackers will "move" over to the payment system itself, but as Chase has demonstrated with their massive data breach, banks are already a high value target. The difference is the banks hopefully have better protection than Home Depot apparently had.

 

[NSXrebel]

^^^ The problem is if they simply called it 'NFC Payment' then everyone would know they're copying something google did 5 years ago.
For google, it wasn't even news worthy, it was just a 'hey we did this this weekend, check it out'.
Sounds like I'm being a troll, sorry. True though.

Yes, Google did. They partnered with some of the largest banks immediately and worked with retailers that already had existing NFC systems offered through MasterCard. Visa and Discover joined in afterwards. Apple had quite a bit of luxury in coming later to the game because by then, many retailers already had NFC systems and those who were on the fence now had the upmarket justification they needed to adopt them as well. Those are the ones that were announced as initial partners of Apple Pay.

Apple Pay uses NFC technology, BUT, it is NOT the same as Google Wallet, not even close. Also, Google Wallet was NOT introduced 5 years ago, it was launched 3 years ago in 2011, and even if it were 5 years ago, it has failed to gain traction that Google expected.
And if you want to bring up the whole Apple copied Google argument, contactless payment solution (EMV) has been around over 10 years already, so it's not like Google invented it. Google just happened to piggyback on the infrastructure MasterCard already had in place.

False, Google Wallet did NOT partner with the some of the largest banks immediately. The only bank they partnered upon launch was Citi and they only partnered with MasterCard.

Many retailers DID have NFC systems in place already, but not because of Google Wallet. Also, only a handful of Android phones even have NFC capability.

Apple on the other hand, has banks lining up to partner with and use Apple Pay because of the way it's being implemented.






At the end of the day, this IS newsworthy and it should be, not just to Apple, but to Google, and all the other credit card companies that use NFC/contactless payments. These retailers are not just refusing to accept Apple Pay, they are shutting down all their terminals from using NFC. So that means you can't even use Google Wallet or any other form of NFC payment at these retailers.

All this because these retailers want to launch their own payment system next year, but all of a sudden people actually started using Apple Pay that works with even non-partners, so they shut the whole thing down for everyone?

Think about what they’re doing.” wrote Daring Fireball’s John Gruber on Saturday. “They’re turning off NFC payment systems — the whole thing — only because people were actually using them with Apple Pay. Apple Pay works so well that it even works with non-partner systems. These things have been installed for years and so few people used them, apparently, that these retailers would rather block everyone than allow Apple Pay to continue working.[/Quote}

 

[FF Drifter]

I don't see where the disagreement is here. The more people use NFC systems, the more pressure retailers will feel to adopt it and the better it will be for consumers using them. Google Wallet by itself obviously didn't have weight to start some sort of revolution on its own, Apple Pay consumers added to the mix makes the concept more compelling. Apple consumers have consistently demonstrated they are more willing to spend money through iOS devices.

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CurrentC, from a technological perspective, isn't even a competitor. I agree that the decision to drop NFC in favor of this retailer-backed system is where the "big deal story" is here. Cutting off NFC systems to promote an inherently less secure process is a real step back. CurrentC really favors the retailer (data-mining, targeted advertising, basically no investment in infrastructure). The only advantage it confers to a consumer is that it hypothetically would work on any smartphone I guess ~ but that's a really steep price for a consumer to pay.

 

[Yinzer]

This thread is helpful for me to play catch up to understand the new e-payment landscape!NSXrebel, do you work at Apple?

 

[FF Drifter]

I'm disagreeing with you saying Google came out with NFC payments 5 years ago. They didn't.

I didn't say this. This was jond.

I'm disagreeing with you saying Apple copied Google. They didn't.

Or this.

Apple is doing it better(not fanboying it) with their tokenization, TouchID, privacy, partnering with banks, etc.

I didn't discuss any of this. I agree that Apple has better partners than Google did starting out, but I did point out that Google did in fact had good partners when it started.

But especially with your statement,

Of course this IS newsworthy, for anyone that uses NFC as a form of payment, whether it's a smartphone or EMV card. These stores are stopping all NFC payments to push their system which doesn't even go live till next year.
Sounds like they're doing it to spite Apple and in the process they are screwing everyone that uses NFC.

brb live edit