What to do when someone lists your car for sale on ebay?

[akiraflux]

If anyone needs the scammer's IP (and ISP), just ask (PM me).

if the ip you got ends in .20 then you got the right one. otherwise...it's the wrong one

 

[NSXnBRLA]

Latest:

No one wants to help, guys.. every FBI office I have contacted, told me to email the internet fraud division, that they couldnt help me. The internet fraud division hasnt returned my email in 36+ hours (perhaps someone hacked their mail server). Ebay didnt care, and the bank in question didnt really care. Welcome to America. Its time to get tough. I just emailed Dateline NBC. Will keep you posted on their reply.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

someone asked "how did he hijack the account"?

Here's how (one way, at least). I got an email (link to picture of email) that looks exactly like it came from ebay asking me to update my info. I looked at the source and found this was the action on the "sign in" button:
-----------------------------------------
action=http://www.tachibana.co.uk/php.php method=post>
-----------------------------------------

That means if you put your username and password in and click the "sign in" button, it gets sent to "www(dot)tachibana(dot)co(dot)uk". They're using ebay graphics and actually pulling stuff in from pics.ebay.com to build the form...

Even if you don't have ebay, it would be very easy to make one of these for a bank, credit card, etc. site so NEVER put your name/password in an email.

Just visiting from maxima.org - hope you find this guy.

 

[ChrisK]

Latest:

No one wants to help, guys.. every FBI office I have contacted, told me to email the internet fraud division, that they couldnt help me. The internet fraud division hasnt returned my email in 36+ hours (perhaps someone hacked their mail server). Ebay didnt care, and the bank in question didnt really care. Welcome to America. Its time to get tough. I just emailed Dateline NBC. Will keep you posted on their reply.

Sorry I can't help. I work in engineering at a local ABC affilliate, so if I was in your state I would definately ask the news guys to try and do a story on it. The angle could be, Law inforcement too overwhelmed with national security that they have no time for local crime. Or, Fraud on the rise and nobody cares. Anyway, try your local news stations as they generally would have more time to give you than the actual networks.

 

[ChrisK]

Sorry I can't help. I work in engineering at a local ABC affilliate, so if I was in your state I would definately ask the news guys to try and do a story on it. The angle could be, Law inforcement too overwhelmed with national security that they have no time for local crime. Or, Fraud on the rise and nobody cares. Anyway, try your local news stations as they generally would have more time to give you than the actual networks.

Also, try your states attorny generals office. My cousing works for ours invetigating white color crime. He mentioned they get a lot of ebay fraud complaints. They do look into it. Well, eventually

 

[DocL]

This is unbelievable.....

This should also be a wake up call to everyone who would ever consider buying or selling anything through e-bay. Just the fact that e-bay doesn't give a rat's ass about an obvious scheme to defraud is proof that they only care about themself and making money. The fact that they won't enforce their own rules is ridiculous. Although I once used e-bay to buy something three years ago, and albeit it was only a $15 purchase, it was one of the worst experineces I have ever had.

I will never again buy anything through e-bay, and furthermore I will never sell anything using e-bay. It's time that we as consumers take a stand against this type of business practice and boycott the internet auction industry.

 

[Eric5273]

The FBI are too busy searching for Osama bin Laden. They have no time for these unimportant internet fraud cases.

(Actually, I would guess there are so many of these cases on a daily bases, that they are overloaded and cannot possibly respond to each and every one)

 

[akiraflux]

Re: This is unbelievable.....

This should also be a wake up call to everyone who would ever consider buying or selling anything through e-bay. Just the fact that e-bay doesn't give a rat's ass about an obvious scheme to defraud is proof that they only care about themself and making money. The fact that they won't enforce their own rules is ridiculous. Although I once used e-bay to buy something three years ago, and albeit it was only a $15 purchase, it was one of the worst experineces I have ever had.

I will never again buy anything through e-bay, and furthermore I will never sell anything using e-bay. It's time that we as consumers take a stand against this type of business practice and boycott the internet auction industry.

i find it funny people actually believe that. the center i work in has 1400 employees. in the past year 10 people from my department have been "kicked" off the team to work on account takeovers (what this is a case of). we have a team of 40 people to handle live chat about account takeovers and around 80 people working the emails. another 250 people work fraud and proactive fraud. so don't you dare say we aren't trying to fight it.

the truth of the matter is yes...we are slow. but with several million auctions listed every day it's damn hard to fight all the scammers out there that are now drawn to ebay and it's customer base comprised of complete morons willing to send their CC info, email info and ebay account info on a page that doesn't even have an ebay url.

when it comes down to it...if you have a bad experience on ebay it's your own fault for blindly trusting everybody. you gotta watch your own back because you're in the real world. we can't protect everybody. just like the RIAA can't stop pirating we can't stop fraud and account takeovers.


**edit**

and which part did you not understand in that we kicked the hacker out of the account and gave it back to the real owner? we did our job. but it's still the sellers fault for being an idiot and giving out his account info. blame him. not us.

 

[DocL]

Re: Re: This is unbelievable.....

i find it funny people actually believe that... so don't you dare say we aren't trying to fight it.

If you are trying to fight it why wasn't the rightfull owner of the auction give the acknowledgement that his investigative work was helpful. It's obvious that e-bay doesn't care that someone is going to be the victim of a crime here. Come on, it is too obvious that the real owner had his car pictures and specifications falsely listed on e-bay by someone other than himself. Doesn't this in itself indicate intent to defraud? I'm not an attorney, but I do smell a scam when I see one.

...when it comes down to it...if you have a bad experience on ebay it's your own fault for blindly trusting everybody. you gotta watch your own back because you're in the real world. we can't protect everybody. just like the RIAA can't stop pirating we can't stop fraud and account takeovers.

Where was it that I stated that I trusted the person with whom I won the auction with. I intentionally bidded on an item that was of no significant dollar value to me. There was no fraud involved with my transaction, but the hassle and dealing the "morons" that you identify is exactly the reason why I will never use e-bay again. If that's not protecting myself, I don't know of a better method.

I'm sorry that you feel that insulted by my reaction to the issue at hand here. But unfortunately it is a fact, not fiction.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Okay people, chill. eBay is not perfect, but obviously a lot of people like the service or they wouldn't be where they are today. I've been using eBay since its earliest days, and have only experienced a couple of unsatisfactory transactions (once I bought a used speakerphone and it was infested with baby roach...yuck!). I've never been blatantly scammed like this though, and for the most part I'm glad eBay is around. The internet makes it easier to buy, sell, AND scam, so it's buyer beware just as in real life. Exercise common sense, utilize their escrow service for large purchases, use credit cards to pay for your purchases if you can, and you should be fine.

On the other hand, it's frustrating that the authorities are not showing more interest in catching this perp while the "trail is hot." Perhaps they're busy looking for the Weapons of Mass Destruction?

 

[nsxtasy]

The FBI are too busy searching for Osama bin Laden. They have no time for these unimportant internet fraud cases.

(Actually, I would guess there are so many of these cases on a daily bases, that they are overloaded and cannot possibly respond to each and every one)

I would guess that this is very true. Furthermore, if they are trying to prioritize these cases, they would be likely to give more priority to a case where someone actually lost a substantial amount of money, than one where the person was "outed" and no money was lost. Furthermore, even if the person could be found, it would be more difficult to prosecute such a case (due to lack of evidence) and the penalties would likely be lighter.

 

[nsxxtreme]

After 45 minutes on hold with eBay, here's what I get:

"Nothing we can do, please email the complaint dept"

I think this is what the doc is upset about. Come on now someone is on the phone with you telling you that someone is fraudulently trying to sell your car, and you tell them "Nothing we can do, please email the complaint dept". This is completely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they really had cared about fraud on ebay they should have an immediate action team with a number listed on their website where you could get a hold of a live person. They should not hide behind an email address! This only shows their lack of commitment to weeding out scammers. Think about it, why do scammers frequent ebay, because it's so damn easy to scam someone.

 

[NSXnBRLA]

I think this is what the doc is upset about. Come on now someone is on the phone with you telling you that someone is fraudulently trying to sell your car, and you tell them "Nothing we can do, please email the complaint dept". This is completely ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they really had cared about fraud on ebay they should have an immediate action team with a number listed on their website where you could get a hold of a live person. They should not hide behind an email address! This only shows their lack of commitment to weeding out scammers. Think about it, why do scammers frequent ebay, because it's so damn easy to scam someone.

You are absolutely correct. At least, eBay should list the direct line to their fraud dept on EVERYTHING for sale on their site which is over $10,000. At minimum, that would make some of the fraudulent people think twice. If nothing else, just to verify that this is a legitamate listing. Between eBay people and FBI people redirecting me to the internet to file my claim, i've just about lost all my faith in the system. I even told the FBI agent, "I have the guys name, and his bank account number, SURELY YOU CAN FREAKING GET SOMEWHERE WITH THAT???", to which he responded, we dont handle that. I just hung up with the Liberty Coins people, the actual owner of the ebay account (click 'Me' next to the sellers name), and this is the first they've heard of it. They'll be surprised when their eBay bill comes in at over 1,000.00 this month because of all the car listings. Im still waiting to hear back from DatelineNBC. I emailed them and got their autoresponder which stated they would get to my email as soon as they could. Im beginning to see why its so easy to defraud people online.

 

[akiraflux]

i believe per day we get about 64,000 emails. think about how many phone calls that is and how much time it would take on each call. they've talked to us about this before and we would need to triple our 4000 employee staff to handle this volume. any company would tell you it's not viable as we'd need to raise our fees and drive away customers. i also think doc got ahold of an outsourcing line or something. we have no complaint dept.

 

[NSXnBRLA]

i believe per day we get about 64,000 emails. think about how many phone calls that is and how much time it would take on each call.

Thats true, but its not the consumers fault that eBay has outgrown its staffing. When the population of a city reaches a certain number, its a federal requirement that the police dept must have x amount of officers per capita. Bigger city, more police. If eBay can't handle the load of fraud, they should do more to prevent it, or make it easier to detect fraud. At 64,000 emails per day, Ill be thats directly proportional to the amount of dollars fraudulently earned each day, through false ebay listings.

 

[DocL]

... i also think doc got ahold of an outsourcing line or something. we have no complaint dept.

I never called e-bay and made a complaint. I was just commenting on the actions of e-bay as posted in this thread. I'm sure that there are thousands of transactions completed by honest users everyday, but it's the lack of concern by e-bay that has gotten my attention.

I have nothing personal against you akiraflux. I'm an educated consumer and I prefer to pay retail in order to avoid the potential fraud as exhibited numerous times on e-bay. I will admit that I do use e-bay as a resource on products that I do purchase at a regular brick and mortar store.

**edit** I just realized that e-bay has no complaint department. Another reason why I will never use their services. You'd have to be crazy to to do busines with a company that doesn't want to hear of complaints or help out a consumer. What ever happened to the phrase "the customer is always right."

 

[NSXnBRLA]

Update:

Just got off the phone with the FBI office closest to the bank in which this wire would go to, if you were to send it.

"Sorry sir, there's not much we can do until someone actually transfers the money"

So it looks like even if you can prove someone is attempting to sell something, and collect on something that isnt theirs, its pretty much no harm done according to the officials.

.... more to come....

 

[akiraflux]

well like i said...ebay does try. it's currently our #1 thing the bigwigs are throwin money into. the problem is there's just too much to fight. you got the stupid members givin their info out on fake ebay pages and the biggest problem is that no matter what steps we take the scammers would find a way around it. simply cuz THEY are the ones figuring out new ways to scam people. when fighting stuff like this...the people trying to fight it are always one step behind the people doin bad stuff. it just can't go any other way. unfortunately internet users are far too stupid. we say in every email and every help page that ebay will never ask for their account information or CC info. yet people still give it out.

but yah. sorry man. the little crimes don't matter to authorities anymore. they only want stuff that will make them look better. government needs an online authority group to handle all this crap.

 

[nsxxtreme]

At 64,000 emails per day, Ill be thats directly proportional to the amount of dollars fraudulently earned each day, through false ebay listings.

I also think it is proportional to the amount of dollars ebay is making. So basically they are saying they have too much business, that they don't have any time to protect the consumer that uses their services. I think requiring a direct contact number to the person selling something of significant value is a good idea. Although phone numbers can be scammed to with stolen cell phones (It still makes it more difficult). I do think they need a scammer tip line that could act immediately on possible scams. I don't think this is unreasonable. You will never win the scam war. Just like the music industry will not win the P2P fight. But the more difficult you make it the less likely someone will do it. It is ebay's tendencies to do nothing that iratates me!! I'm sorry but telling someone that owns the car their is nothing they can do is pure BS!!. Get off your damn ass and end the auction. Obviously after contacting the original owner of the account.

 

[nsxtasy]

I just realized that e-bay has no complaint department. Another reason why I will never use their services.

Doc,

I think you're being totally unreasonable in your rants against eBay.

eBay has a customer service department, which is what akiraflux was referring to. Very few businesses today have a separate complaint department; almost all have a customer service department, that is (hopefully) prepared to deal with any kinds of issues from customers, whether it's a complaint, a request for order status, a billing question, etc.

I think some of the objections others are presenting are legitimate; I would expect eBay to be more proactive because its reputation is on the line. But Doc, the things you're saying, they're just silly.

Originally posted by NSXnBRLA
"Sorry sir, there's not much we can do until someone actually transfers the money"

So it looks like even if you can prove someone is attempting to sell something, and collect on something that isnt theirs, its pretty much no harm done according to the officials.

That's what I was trying to point out. Law enforcement's job is to find and convict people who have committed crimes; the more serious the crime, the more effort put towards this. Unfortunately, "trying to commit fraud" is going to be a lower crime and receive less attention than an actual commitment of fraud.

I wish this weren't the case. I wish that every act of crime, or attempted act of crime, could receive top priority and the perpetrators tracked down, tried, and convicted. It would serve as more of a deterrent if it weren't so easy. But with the criminal justice system overloaded with more serious offenses, they're not going to do so for an attempted crime. Just like eBay is not going to give as much attention to an attempted fraud as an actual one. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Sucks, huh?

 

[akiraflux]

i doubt ebay will ever go with a phone support center. currently they are ramping up live chat help which is better in the long run anyways. people don't care if they sit in a chat room waiting for somebody to help them as opposed to sitting on a phone on hold for 20 min.

we started test live chat about a year ago with general support. now we have a support and an account takeover team. just recently opened up a new building in vancouver that will be almost entirely live chat based with a few thousand employees. the management does listen to their customers and knows we're severely lacking. but seriously nobody saw this coming 3 years ago and things don't happen lightning quick in business.

sorry i'm being so defensive but i've worked here almost 5 years and i just hate people saying we don't care and that we are just money hungry. if only you knew.

 

[Brian2by2]

See what really pisses me off is out of those 64,000 complaints everyday, i bet less than 5% are cases with fraud this outrageous!! We're talking several hits at $5,000 a pop!

And the FBI is just B.S.!! We have so much information on this schmuck and they won't do anything. I'm sure he's abandoned this account by now! He can only be so stupid and I'm sure he's on by now....I agree with NSXnBRLA...I've lost alot of faith in our justice system....

 

[Eric5273]

I would guess that this is very true. Furthermore, if they are trying to prioritize these cases, they would be likely to give more priority to a case where someone actually lost a substantial amount of money, than one where the person was "outed" and no money was lost. Furthermore, even if the person could be found, it would be more difficult to prosecute such a case (due to lack of evidence) and the penalties would likely be lighter.

Yes. They are also very busy taking care of important matters like this:

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2003-07-17/rant.html

 

[akiraflux]

get this. i ran across a kiddie porn ring on an account members "about me" page.

i called the local police. the local fbi. finally had to call customs (customs? wtf?) but yah. after 3 phone calls and 80 minutes of wait time i finally got to report it to somebody who cared.

and i'm talking about the real stuff here. 10 year olds and whatnot. thousands of people registered. nobody cared.

i wanted to kill that day. still do when i think of it.

 

[Eric5273]

They are only interested in protecting the federal government from perceived threats. And when they have some spare time, they occasionally are interested in protecting citizens.