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Where are all the Production deliveries ??

JT1991 said:
Question,
if an NSX is customer ordered does the customer name appear on the window sticker or any other "way" (a code perhaps?) to tell by looking at the window sticker that a particular car was" customer ordered", or is the presumption that they are all customer ordered? Still, it remains a question, would a customer's name ever appear on the window sticker (who ordered the car)?

thx
Click to expand...
Doubtful. Every car I've ever ordered has never never shown my name anywhere, Monroney sticker, etc. Lamborghini factory with etch your name on the chassis beside the s/n, but not sure why anyone would want that.
 
Thx nsx#fan, but, I just want to make sure as you may know, custom ordered Dodge Viper's have the name on the monroney sticker...
just checking if NSX has this or not, definitively that is :)
 
MasterNSXTech said:
Here's the thing. They are built to order. But they aren't going to wait for an order to build them. Not sure how it works for outside markets, EU, Japan, Australia, whatever. But for US dealers, the cars are coming at a specified window which means they have to be ordered with some kind of spec no matter who picks it by a certain time.

Dealer has X allocated for the year. Most US dealers have gotten their second car and if they are allocated more than that, then they are expecting their third car in the next couple months. But...that third car was speced over three months ago. If a dealer has a fourth allocation, that's already been FIF locked and will deliver in May. Fifth car? That will have to Have it's spec locked in probably in the next couple weeks, but won't deliver until June/July.

The point is, the dealer has to have a car speced in a certain window. If there's no buyer lined up at that time, then the dealer will just spec whatever they want. This is why there are an abundance of $200k+ fully loaded cars on the ground right now. Those are all dealer spec cars. Which means 5-6 months ago, that dealer had no buyer lined up for even their first car! Now you can all say well I wanted to buy the first car but the greedy dealer wanted a huge markup or maybe something like well I wanted the first car but the dealer principal took the car for himself. And sure that was probably the case at a lot of dealerships. But not all of them. Some were in fact ordered to a real buyer's spec, and for whatever reason the buyer backed out. This is why there are some unsold Nord Greys out there. Or some unsold non Tech package cars out there. Or some with only half the carbon dress up bits. And some dealers just flat out didn't have anyone in line to buy no matter the price.

So this leaves the dealers in a poor position. You don't want someone else's spec. But depending on the dealer, it may already be too late to even order a 2017 to a spec you choose. Or if they still can, you're not getting your car for six months. In the meantime, they have inventory on the ground already that they'd much rather sell before taking in new stock. But you want your spec...not whatever they have. So here's comes the discounting to try and entice you to just take what they have instead of ordering yet another car they might get stuck with.
Click to expand...

Welcome to America. A free market.
 
A lot I read here is market socialism.
 
JT1991 said:
Question,
if an NSX is customer ordered does the customer name appear on the window sticker or any other "way" (a code perhaps?) to tell by looking at the window sticker that a particular car was" customer ordered", or is the presumption that they are all customer ordered? Still, it remains a question, would a customer's name ever appear on the window sticker (who ordered the car)?

thx
Click to expand...

Nope. Other brands may have a code or some wording to indicate it was a special ordered car.
 
MasterNSXTech said:
So this leaves the dealers in a poor position.
Click to expand...

Not at all.

No dealers have to order a car when its allocated, they can decide to pass.
However the dealers have booked a spec for every NSX offered whether they have a sale or not.

And that's the source of the problem.
The dealers haven't had enough forward orders from customers so they've been placing spec orders so as not to miss a slot.

And Honda for their part in this, doesn't appear to have asked the dealers if the cars are for spec or actually sold to a customer.
It seems as long as the factory gets a spec from a dealer it's deemed to be a sale by the factory and so they blithely keep churning the cars out.

So between the dealers not passing on slots and Honda apparently not concerned whether the cars are going unsold to dealer inventory or actually sold to a customer you end up where we are today.

Had Honda marketing spent time finding out if the orders they were getting from dealers were actually sold, they would have found out unsold inventory was climbing rapidly and could have made adjustments early to keep things in balance and avoid today's dilemma.

So the responsibility is shared between dealerships and Honda.

And as we've seen many times over the years exclusivity in this market segment is of utmost importance in creating an aura around the marque and it's offerings.
The harder to get a car is the more desirable it seems to be.
Honda has done the exact opposite to this and they will likely pay a heavy price.
 
so according to this logic, as it currently stands, enough people didn't order the car up front when it was go time. and enough people presently don't want the car bad enough to buy one they didn't spec themselves.

even though it should be really easy to find the colour combo you want with 200+ of them out there right now.

I wonder if Audi, Porsche or Ferrari is having this problem?
 
JD Cross said:
Not at all.

No dealers have to order a car when its allocated, they can decide to pass.
However the dealers have booked a spec for every NSX offered whether they have a sale or not.

And that's the source of the problem.
The dealers haven't had enough forward orders from customers so they've been placing spec orders so as not to miss a slot.
Click to expand...

Well sure we could just let the allocation go and not order the car. But now we're in a position not unlike going to Vegas and getting short stacked and deciding if you keep playing to win your money back or just take the loss and head for the airport with whatever you have left. We've taken a huge loss already on the investment for the tools and equipment. But if we just don't order a car because we have no buyer, then we'll never make our money back on all that stuff. I'm sure every dealer is in the same mindset...I'd rather just spec something that would appeal to most and just keep my allocation. If it languishes for 6-9 months in the showroom? Fine. Eventually Honda will sweeten the pot and put out a great lease deal and/or incentives for the car. In the meantime, I'll just keep the showroom jewelry and give people something to ooh and ahh over while they're signing papers for that TLX. Eventually the car will sell. Even if we have to make almost nothing on it. But at least it puts another NSX in service in our area. Eventually it will come back for service, and we'll make money off that.
 
MasterNSXTech said:
Here's the thing. They are built to order. But they aren't going to wait for an order to build them. Not sure how it works for outside markets, EU, Japan, Australia, whatever. But for US dealers, the cars are coming at a specified window which means they have to be ordered with some kind of spec no matter who picks it by a certain time.

Dealer has X allocated for the year. Most US dealers have gotten their second car and if they are allocated more than that, then they are expecting their third car in the next couple months. But...that third car was speced over three months ago. If a dealer has a fourth allocation, that's already been FIF locked and will deliver in May. Fifth car? That will have to Have it's spec locked in probably in the next couple weeks, but won't deliver until June/July.

The point is, the dealer has to have a car speced in a certain window. If there's no buyer lined up at that time, then the dealer will just spec whatever they want. This is why there are an abundance of $200k+ fully loaded cars on the ground right now. Those are all dealer spec cars. Which means 5-6 months ago, that dealer had no buyer lined up for even their first car! Now you can all say well I wanted to buy the first car but the greedy dealer wanted a huge markup or maybe something like well I wanted the first car but the dealer principal took the car for himself. And sure that was probably the case at a lot of dealerships. But not all of them. Some were in fact ordered to a real buyer's spec, and for whatever reason the buyer backed out. This is why there are some unsold Nord Greys out there. Or some unsold non Tech package cars out there. Or some with only half the carbon dress up bits. And some dealers just flat out didn't have anyone in line to buy no matter the price.

So this leaves the dealers in a poor position. You don't want someone else's spec. But depending on the dealer, it may already be too late to even order a 2017 to a spec you choose. Or if they still can, you're not getting your car for six months. In the meantime, they have inventory on the ground already that they'd much rather sell before taking in new stock. But you want your spec...not whatever they have. So here's comes the discounting to try and entice you to just take what they have instead of ordering yet another car they might get stuck with.
Click to expand...
a lot of dealers got greedy, ordered full spec cars, and thought ADM would be easy. we got extremely lucky and sold ours in about a month to a tech giant.

3 or 4 of the buyers that we had on the list were waiting for base base cars with steel rotors.

acura doesn't give much time (~3weeks) between the time the allocation is granted and the lock date, so it sucks if there isn't someone lined up.

our 3rd car should be here in feb, with 4 and 5 coming in april and may-ish.

I laughed at the NSX training in OH when some of the NSX specialist said they sold all of their allocations already.
 
MasterNSXTech said:
Well sure we could just let the allocation go and not order the car. But now we're in a position not unlike going to Vegas and getting short stacked and deciding if you keep playing to win your money back or just take the loss and head for the airport with whatever you have left. We've taken a huge loss already on the investment for the tools and equipment. But if we just don't order a car because we have no buyer, then we'll never make our money back on all that stuff. I'm sure every dealer is in the same mindset...I'd rather just spec something that would appeal to most and just keep my allocation. If it languishes for 6-9 months in the showroom? Fine. Eventually Honda will sweeten the pot and put out a great lease deal and/or incentives for the car. In the meantime, I'll just keep the showroom jewelry and give people something to ooh and ahh over while they're signing papers for that TLX. Eventually the car will sell. Even if we have to make almost nothing on it. But at least it puts another NSX in service in our area. Eventually it will come back for service, and we'll make money off that.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand the dealer logic behind keeping them coming sold or unsold.
It's the same logic on ordering MDX's etc on spec.
Much like treating the NSX like a Honda Accord.
Dealerships can't see it today but this attitude is what's cheapening the NSX and is self defeating in the long run
 
fastaussie said:
so according to this logic, as it currently stands, enough people didn't order the car up front when it was go time. and enough people presently don't want the car bad enough to buy one they didn't spec themselves.

even though it should be really easy to find the colour combo you want with 200+ of them out there right now.

I wonder if Audi, Porsche or Ferrari is having this problem?
Click to expand...
Audi is offering an aggressive lease program while also offering discounts off MSRP on the R8, which is selling a similar number of units per month as the NSX.

Porsche and Ferrari both have their desirable models with long wait lists, while they have a few models that don't move as well. But they're the longest established players in the game and are reaping the rewards. McLaren is gaining ground fast but still has a factory lease program and discounts off MSRP to move cars. The P14 however, is probably going to change the landscape a bit when it debuts.

For Acura, I talked to Gary Robinson (Acura Product Planning Manager) at Detroit and he said that it's unlikely they'll offer an aggressive lease program for the NSX. They're selling at about the rate they wanted (for 800/per year) so they're not particularly fussed. We'll see if their tune changes in year 2 or 3.
 
Another observation about the market is that the high end has gotten a lot higher

looking at cars.com, almost all of the 488 inventory is $300k to $400k

Many of the folks seeking, newest, fastest, best mid engined toys are participating at a much higher price point than the NSX lives in

so what I am thinking is, these folks are not constrained by cost and are relentlessly seeking power/performance limits and if you are not close to the upper edge, they are going elsewhere

essentially, Ferrari and McLaren are in a battle royale

the P14 is expected to be the next shot and should surpass the 488

Ferrari is still on deck to bring the Dino to attack the 570S
 
Bricks and Bio said:
Many of the folks seeking, newest, fastest, best mid engined toys are participating at a much higher price point than the NSX lives in

so what I am thinking is, these folks are not constrained by cost and are relentlessly seeking power/performance limits and if you are not close to the upper edge, they are going elsewhere
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it. The NSX competes in the "affordable 'supercar' " segment. Price matters, but not purely a bang-for-buck market (otherwise people would only buy the Z06). I wish it were more comparable to the 488 (~2x the NSX price), but the fact that it holds its own versus the 458 is amazing. Even the 570S, which most NSX buyers could stretch for if they loved it, has a 20% higher entry price (once you are able to skip the carbon brakes on the NSX).

I feel lucky to be living at a time when there are so many amazing choices in the $150K +/- range for cars.
 
Last edited:
JD Cross said:
Yes I understand the dealer logic behind keeping them coming sold or unsold.
It's the same logic on ordering MDX's etc on spec.
Much like treating the NSX like a Honda Accord.
Dealerships can't see it today but this attitude is what's cheapening the NSX and is self defeating in the long run
Click to expand...

So how would you do it then if you were me? Just forfeit the allocation if you don't have a buyer with a deposit down? That would certainly keep the value of the car solid since it would minimize the amount of cars on the ground collecting dust. But you hardly sell any cars, if any at all.

My two cars so far sold to people just shopping around. They weren't waitlisted. More or less just walk ins. And in order to sell to people like that, you need inventory on the ground. You guys here on these forums are a little more invested in these cars so you might be more inclined to order to spec and wait. But the reality is a lot of cars like this are impulse buys. Football player just got a fat contract and goes to the Rolls Royce dealer and just takes whatever strikes his fancy from what they have in stock. Not gonna worry too much if the car is missing the starlight roof option. Rich guy wants to buy his trophy wife a Ferrari will just go to the dealer and take whatever California they have in stock and have it delivered to her with a bow on it that day.
 
I agree with the Master on the take or pass on allocations stuff

a car in inventory is a chip needed to play

you can sell it in your market and win triple, profit on the unit, future service revenue and the opportunity to keep ordering cars

if you sell it out of market, you only forgo the future service revenue

i would also look more closely at the opportunity to keep ordering aspect, if you pass on a current allocation, your future allocations may also be cut, further damaging you potential to recoup the investment
 
Bricks and Bio said:
i would also look more closely at the opportunity to keep ordering aspect, if you pass on a current allocation, your future allocations may also be cut, further damaging you potential to recoup the investment
Click to expand...

I agree and I am not a dealer so I don't really know the answer but if you haven't sold your first one after many months, and you don't have a current buyer line up to do a custom config, then what makes you think you will sell multiples?

(p.s. and I do love the car - just not at the price point for me; I envy those of you who have it already; I am supporting the NSX entries in the Rolex/IMSA/PWC racing season and will attend multiple races including Dayonta and 12 hour of Sebring; will be arranging meet and greets for our members with Michael Shank Racing and Real Time Racing; etc - I don't want to be accused of being completely "negative" on the car since I do love the car and respect the owners)
 
Last edited:
Exposure and price help

at some point summer comes and buyers for sports cars come out to play

if their social media folks are doing a good job, exposure for their car will be there

if nothing else is moving the car, dropping the price can get things moving

beyond that, networking with dealerships (Acura and specialty market makers like Marshall Goldman) in fancy car zip codes
 
Bricks and Bio said:
Exposure and price help

at some point summer comes and buyers for sports cars come out to play

if their social media folks are doing a good job, exposure for their car will be there

if nothing else is moving the car, dropping the price can get things moving

beyond that, networking with dealerships (Acura and specialty market makers like Marshall Goldman) in fancy car zip codes
Click to expand...

Dropping the price will be the biggest incentive to prospective buyers, most of who seem to have watched the buildup of inventory and are happy to ride it out till later in the year when the 2018s come on the horizon and dealers need to clear inventory quickly.

As a fan of the car (new and old) I am disappointed in the lack of any real sightings "in the wild". You cannot build social media hype without such sightings and no matter how many times I see Ludacris leaning on his white one I don't get any more interested in the car. At NSXPO 2015 we had the new one a week before the media and I was the only one "officially" allowed to photograph it on the track and post it on social media (Acura used my pics later on in their social media postings). Now I think I am a good photographer and I am a fan but I would also like to think that their social media marketing is bit more all encompassing than what I did. People need to see the cars on the roads and at cars & coffee, etc. in order to stoke some interest.

I think the other problem is many people (including Primates) assumed it would come in at the $115-125K range and were ready to pounce but sticker shock ground everything to a halt immediately. Many were hoping that they would try to market it to current owners as a built in customer base but when it was priced beyond the reach of 95% of current owners and fans it now needed to attract a new set of owners with different demographics and that set of buyers has many more options in that price range and this makes it a tougher sell.
 
My car is on the road at least 1 day a week and I see lots of camera phone action

and Brylek did his magic photographing the car and putting it out there

i hope the other cars are getting driven but I haven't seen another one on the road in Chicagoland either
 

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