Why I sold my BBSC

[4AU4LIFE]

You're right Andy, sorry.

I too obviously am VERY curious about fellow BBSC owners and the trials and tribulations there are going thru.
My hope is the MB will post on here and make some concrete promises about things that will be done and the time frame in which they will happen. I realize that he is only one person and can only do just so much, but for those of us who have already taken the leap of faith and bought the product should be made aware of things to help us.

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ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED

 

[NSXTC]

It’s funny how these threads can degenerate!

Of course Craig knows my super-cool & efficient 9psi BBSC is way faster than his overheated 6psi CTSC! muahahahah!

Anyway, as far as parts and support, Id have to make a general statement about all NSX FI kits to put the discussion in its proper perspective. There are a lot of Mustang and Civic kits installed out there, but very very few NSX kits.

It’s tough to be used to a certain level of ready parts availability and service that comes from these big manufacturers. Comptech has undoubtedly done a fantastic job with their customer support and parts availability. They are the undisputed leader in this area, and have the most NSX customers out there (maybe only 300 or so??).

Comptech has a full-time tech guy (Shad), a separate ordering guy (Bob), and a nationwide dealer network. If service and support is the prime concern, nobody has Comptech beat. I was always very impressed with how well they handled customer service issues.

Now, FI choices for the NSX are extremely limited. When you have a very rare and truly exotic sportscar like the NSX, your FI choices will naturally be quite rare. Just think if you had a Ferrari F50 and you wanted to add FI. You’d have to either take it to this place in Germany, or Bob Norwood in Dallas. You would not get a parts manual or an instruction manual. Oh, yes, and you will be forking out $30-$50k for the kit.

So, we are actually lucky that we have not only the Comptech, but the GMSC, the BBSC, and several flavors of turbo kits out there. I would submit that none of these options has anywhere near the level of service and support that the CTSC has. You will have to go through Japan from most of the GMSC parts (Via Alex), and you better be on a friendly basis with whoever built your turbo installation if you want service or support on that.

I just thought it would help the discussion to pull back for a second look at the “big picture”

-Marc


PS- MB says he will soon be doing his last “on-site” BBSC install, and will then concentrate on writing the documentation and parts list, and putting everything online at www.baschboost.com



[This message has been edited by NSXTC (edited 17 February 2003).]

 

[the nsxnut]

Comrades, I will also go on record as a committed BBSC owner. Yes, I have observed and solved many of the attendant issues that go along with it, as noted above. My philosophy on that is, you can't bolt on 120+ rwhp (this is where CTSC will never measure up) and not have to work on it! I will admit to being a full-blown NSXaholic (is there a 12-step program for that?), and I love to work on my car, and it is not my daily driver, so the required engineering evolution is acceptable, to me. Others have different needs/tolerances. I love the noises, also. The WHOOSH, (I also have Cantrell CAI, which gives great acoustics), the 'crickets' at idle, and the generally louder note due to higher flow, all give me a little grin of satisfaction, as well as the big grin that comes along from 5k-8k, as mentioned by Kendall.

The engineering aesthetics (CNC machined aluminum) and neat packaging are FAR superior to CTSC. The flexibility of being able to tune it oneself (not for neophytes) is also an advantage over any other package.

It's not all hugs and kisses, some hard, tedious work is required, but I remain a BBSC booster...

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Mark H.,Atlanta
[email protected]
'91, Sebring Silver, BBSC and more...

 

[NSEXTASY]

You get what you pay for..theres a reason Comptech is double the price.But I still dont understand why you removed it?? you replaced with comptech??Turbo's??Twin Turbo Porsche??What??Back to stock??I bet you didnt lose a whole lot of money selling the used Basch setup.

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by NSEXTASY:
theres a reason Comptech is double the price.

Actually, after a price increase in the BBSC and a price drop in the CTSC, the price difference is relatively small - on the order of $1,500 for a 3.0L coupe (less if you shop the Comptech purchase around a bit).

The base BBSC package currently sells for $6,500 + installation.

The base CTSC kit for a 3.0L coupe (which is what Bryan has, along with almost all the other BBSC owners I've seen) currently lists for $8,900 plus installation. However, Comptech offers all NSXCA members 10% discount on any products. An NSXCA membership is $40.

$8,900 * .90 = $8,010 + $40 = $8,050

The CTSC is available for even less from some resellers, but even using the $8,050 direct-from-Comptech amount, that means the base BBSC package is roughly 19% less $ than the CTSC for a coupe.

$8,050 * .81 = $6,520.50

Or, if you want to look at it the other way, the CTSC 3.0L coupe kit is roughly 24% more $ than a base BBSC:

$6,500 * 1.24 = $8,060

A far cry from double in any case.

 

[BryanZublin]

Originally posted by NSEXTASY:
But I still dont understand why you removed it?? you replaced with comptech??Turbo's??Twin Turbo Porsche??What??Back to stock??

I am back to stock and don't plan any major engine mods for at least a couple of years. See my original post for "reasons why."

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I have tossed around the idea of going back to N/A as well. Still undecided on it.

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ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED

 

[highapr]

Originally posted by BryanZublin:
Many have asked why I removed and sold my BBSC last December. Those of you who already have the BBSC installed are probably aware of most of the following issues. For those considering purchase, this may or may not assist in your decision.


Good things about the BBSC:
1. Significant increase in peak rear wheel horsepower.
2. Low profile design allows for stock engine cover to be retained.
3. Price competitive with other current systems on the market.
4. Of the few thousand miles that I put on my BBSC, there were no mechanical or electrical failures. This was after the final design of the drive shaft.
5. As far as I know, still being installed by MB himself, so you can be assured that it is being installed as intended. Or maybe not. See more below.


Not so good things about the BBSC:
1. Fact: No significant boost until 5000 RPM or higher.
Opinion: This makes it useless for city driving and I was reminded of this every day (my NSX is my daily driver since October). I would have preferred a nice boost in torque from 2000 to 5000 RPM.
The Fix: It appears that MB is addressing this issue for his next design, but I have no desire to move to the next level of mods (smaller pulley, BOV, intercooler, low compression pistons). This is another huge development effort with many potential problems, still unproven, and my beta days are over.

2. Fact: Sucking & rattling noises during idle and cruising.
Opinion: Not something I want to hear for one hour 5 days a week. The NSX is a very refined vehicle and IMHO any modifications should strive to maintain this refinement. This would be less of an issue if my NSX was a weekend race car.
The Fix: Connect the Bosch bypass valve to the promised air box (see below) - this should reduce the sucking sound when off boost. The rattling of the Paxton blower is an inherent property of the blower itself, although the long drive shaft probably amplifies it somewhat.

3. Fact: The kit is not complete. Still missing: A real air box for a paper element air filter (promised more than 6 months ago); a fix that will allow the NSX to pass the CA emissions test; no connection for the crankcase vent.
Opinion: I gave up hope that these would ever be completed. Too many broken promises.

4. Fact: No reliable service network. If something breaks or needs adjustment, how long do I have to wait for MB to come to town?
Opinion: There is still no publicly announced plan to train Acura service shops. Compare this to Comptech which claims that most/all Acura service shops can service the Comptech SC.
The Fix: Train 3rd party service networks. Provide service documentation so that it can be serviced by owners who are far from a trained service tech.

5. Fact: No published documentation on the kit.
Opinion: Talk is cheap. Putting something down on paper requires effort, attention to detail and shows that issues have been addressed. The BBSC-beta discussion group on Yahoo is a useful database, but it's painfully obvious that there are still open issues. The closed list is an insult to potential BBSC owners and implies that there is something to hide. At times it seems that the BBSC owners are providing more solutions than MB himself. My request for some assistance from MB for the removal/installation instructions went unanswered. The new owner of my kit had to install it based on pictures and verbal instructions from me.
The fix: Provide formal documentation for installation, removal, maintenance and troubleshooting.

6. Fact: The current fuel & ignition management system does not allow for direct control of the fuel (timing control is direct). The Split Second box modifies the MAP voltage to the stock ECU which indirectly affects the injectors.
Opinion: Tuning is not straightforward. But this system is still a big improvement over the Comptech system that uses only a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and NO adjustments for ignition timing.
The Fix: Use a piggy back system that directly modifies the injector pulse widths. Or use a replacement ECU.

7. Fact: A few design flaws: engine compartment fuse box is inaccessible and access to the oil cap is difficult.

8. Opinion: As far as I know, still being installed by MB himself, so you can be assured that it is being installed as intended. Or maybe not. How would I know, since there is no documentation? When I removed my BBSC, I found a few loose bolts, wire harnesses that were not secured, oil lines secured with nylon wire ties, and a missing oil pressure switch. The loose bolts were probably a result of rushing the job because of time constraints, or maybe too few cigarettes during the installation. The unsecured wire harnesses are by design (or lack thereof). The oil lines secured with nylon wire ties is a bad choice because the nylon will become brittle and crack when exposed to the elements. I have no idea what happened to my oil pressure switch after I personally handed it to MB and asked that it be reinstalled.

In conclusion:

I respect Mark for developing this product and taking a big risk. I think he made a few big mistakes along the way that cost him a lot of money. He relied too much on his own "gut feel," other's advice & engineering input which turned out to be wrong. He released the kit too early. I believe that initially he started this effort because it really excited him and he was not considering it as a business. Now the fun is over and can no longer be approached as a hobby. I have complete confidence in him as a professional NSX service mechanic. I have less confidence in him when it comes to engineering aftermarket products and providing the kind of support that it requires.

I could very well be the least mechanical NSx owner on the planet. I had my BBSC installed on my 93 last summer and have not had one problem with it. All I do is get in and go, never a problem.

I do not drive on the track, but the vehicle was my daily driver for 6 months. I have no issues with the noise and can't say enough about the performance. I would not hesitate to suggest the BBSC to anyone. It has performed better than expected

I have never taken a tool to my NSX, not even sure which end to hold........but I can't say enough about the low maintanence and INCREDIBLE performance.

Thanks,

Brian

93 BBSC NSX
64k miles

 

[4AU4LIFE]

We are all glad that you have had good luck with your unit. My NSX isn't a daily driver, h*** right now....

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92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED