Will 20mm Spacers w/ integrated studs fit on 02+ wheels?

[996garage]

Just curious as I was not able to find a clear answer to this while searching through old threads.

For REAR wheels, I know if you run 15mm spacers you have to swap to extended lug bolts, because the stock bolts are too short. The other option is using spacers with integrated studs, but it will require swapping to shorter stud bolts (or cutting) if you want to use with 02+ wheels because the OEM bolts are a bit too long and will stick out past the spacer. (and there is no spacing pocket on the back of the OEM 02+ wheels)

I've also read that with 25mm spacers you can simply use the adapters with the integrated studs, no problem.

However, does anyone know for sure if 20mm spacers with the integrated wheels studs will fit with the 02+ wheels? Just want to know if they will interfere with the 02+ wheels requiring shorter studs.

It seems that 25mm is the preferred setup for the rears, which appears to leave a few mm of the tire rubber lip sticking out just a hair from the fender line. I think this looks great on lowered nsx's, but on stock ride height it seems that perhaps 20mm may look better. Just want to know if this is even an option without having to swap out OEM studs.

Thank you

 

[pvmike]

So you think a 20mm wheel adapter with integrated studs won't work because the stock studs are too long? I haven't heard that before.

 

[N Spec]

If there is no recess, then it will not work. The 91 and 94 style have recesses to fit spacers and studs. Just use 25 mm spacers, search for some on 02 wheels.

 

[996garage]

I ran across someone's thread where they posted a photo of the back of an OEM 02+ wheel (which I currently have), and unfortunately there was practically zero cavity recess on the back.

That being said, it's been stated many times that 15mm spacers w/ integrated studs will not work.(unless you cut your bolts) I've never run across anyone in any threads trying 20mm spacers though.

Here's couple threads with some nice photos of 25mm spacers on the rears. Like I said, they look good when the car is lowered, but I think they stick out a hair too far when running stock ride height.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108794&highlight=spacers

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119844&highlight=spacers

I would just do 15mm, but I don't want to spend an entire day swapping in longer studs vs. spending 30min installing 20mm spacers with integrated studs.

 

[W]

Obviously, another way to determine if a 20mm spacer will work is to remove a rear wheel and measure the stud. That's the work you gotta do sometimes to figure out if things will fit.

 

[996garage]

boy, I feel silly...that sure does seem like the obvious thing to do. Will measure it this weekend.

 

[996garage]

FYI - I just measured the OEM lug bolts on the rears, and they all stick out 1 & 1/16th of an inch from the hub. That's roughly 26.9mm.

The back of the 02+ rim has a very shallow cavity that appears to be able to support around an extra 2mm of clearance at most.

So basically it looks like 25mm spacers with integrated studs will be the very lowest size you can go with stock 02+ wheels on the rears. (without cutting or replacing the OEM studs)

 

[angus]

Or , you could have the wheels machined. I don't find that 25mm makes the wheel stick out too much anyways.

 

[GEENSX]

I was using 20mm with integrated stud on 02+ wheels, after i installed the wheels the gap btwn the OEM stud touching the back of the wheels I could hardly fit a credit card btwn it. It gives the car a better look than stock and I had no problems with them. I've recently upgraded to 25mm because I lowered the car and 20mm now looks like OEM set-up.
If your interested I'm about put my 20mm up for sale. PM if interested

 

[996garage]

GEENSX,
After purchasing your wheel spacers, I tried them on my 03' nsx tonight. (Thanks for getting them to me in only 3 days) Unfortunately it looks like the OEM lug bolts are too long to actually fit the 20mm spacers.

I torqued the spacers on at 80lbs, and then put the OEM wheel on the spacer. Visually I could tell that the OEM lugs were probably going to be a bit too long.

I tightened the lugs on the wheel anyway just to about 40-50lbs (while still on jack stand) just to see how close it would get to seating flush. I stopped because I could tell that the OEM lug bolts where hitting the back of the wheel. It left about a good 1 - 2mm gap between the spacer and the back of the wheel.

Then I took the wheel off and there were clear circle impressions of the stock lug bolt ends indented into the back of the wheel cavities.

I would say the OEM lug bolts are a good 3mm too long to fit the 20mm spacers. Do you guys think it's a bad idea to grind off 3mm of the OEM lug bolts to get the spacers to fit?

I get about a good 10 turns of the lug nut before it seats right now. I assume grinding away 3mm, would still allow for 6 or 7 turns on the lug nut if I were to remove the spacers in the future. The 20mm spacer definitely makes for a perfect flush fit with the fender though... the extra 5mm of a 25mm spacer would be too much on a non-lowered car.

Steve

 

[angus]

No problem if it's only 3mm , it will still have lots of threads when you go back to other wheels.

 

[pvmike]

How about custom 22mm adapters, and just return the 20mm adapters to GEENSX as they don't fit? That's rather misleading that he claims that they'll work with '02+ wheels when they don't.

 

[angus]

20mm will work with the rear only. Custom spacers would bo nice , but one off 22mm spacers would probably cost 5x the $$ of just buying off the shelf 25mm spacers.

 

[pvmike]

20mm will work with the rear only. Custom spacers would bo nice , but one off 22mm spacers would probably cost 5x the $$ of just buying off the shelf 25mm spacers.

Th 20mm adapters were for the rears, and they didn't fit on his stock '03.

I'd rather install 2 or 3mm spacers behind the 20mm adapters instead of grinding down the studs.

 

[996garage]

GEENSX was very nice in allowing me to return the spacers. I will just be re-imbursing him for his shipping costs.

Considering I didn't even torque the lugs all the way down, I'd probably need to cut a good 4mm off each bolt just to be sure it clears without damaging the back of the OEM wheel.

I looked into grinding the studs, but unless I found a place that had a lathe to cut them, they would come out looking crooked and not clean if grinded by hand. I got one quote for $60 bucks to cut them, but it just didn't seem worth it considering this was just a temporary mod until I lower the car.

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I will just hold off from using spacers until I get around to lowering the car.

 

[Hrant]

I am really puzzled with your anguish and steadfast need to use 20 mm spacers. Why? 25 mm is proven and tested and the choice of many who want something more aggressive than the 15 mm. Plus it can easily be reverted back to OEM.

Can you really tell the difference between 20 mm vs. 25 mm spacers on the same car with the same wheel set up and alignment/height? If you can, kudos to you and let us know how close you are to the fenders when you notice this and how far you will need to stand so that this difference disappears?

If sticking too much close to the fender edge is your concern, next time you do an alignment increase in your camber and you solve your problem plus you improve the handling - unless tire wear is your concern. Just my $0.02.

 

[996garage]

I have had aftermarket wheels on the last 10 sports cars I've owned, and I can say that having the wrong offset by 5mm absolutely makes a definite difference in proper look and fit of a wheel.

I and many other guys (pvmike and GEENSX included) also feel that 25mm spacers on a STOCK ride height 02+ nsx is just too wide, making the car look like a 4x4. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion as to what looks pleasing to their own eye. In my opinion, changing the camber to tilt the wheels in just for the look seems crazy to me, especially considering tires on an nsx have such a short life span already.

As for the 20mm spacers, I am not in any "anguish" over having them. I originally posted this question just to find out if they would even fit, so that I wouldn't have to go through the trial and error hassle myself. I still ended up going through the trial and error anyway, so hopefully others can easily find out that 20mm rear integrated stud spacers won't properly fit on a OEM 02+ setup.

 

[angus]

Th 20mm adapters were for the rears, and they didn't fit on his stock '03.

I'd rather install 2 or 3mm spacers behind the 20mm adapters instead of grinding down the studs.

Actually , you are correct - the reason why 20mm worked on my car with OEM '02 wheels is that I have BBK , the rotor hats are thicker by 3mm so it gave me the required clearance.

As far as putting a spacer behind the spacer - you could do it ...

 

[angus]

I have had aftermarket wheels on the last 10 sports cars I've owned, and I can say that having the wrong offset by 5mm absolutely makes a definite difference in proper look and fit of a wheel.

QUOTE]

I Could not agree more , 5mm (if you are already close) could be "make or break"

 

[Hrant]

I have had aftermarket wheels on the last 10 sports cars I've owned, and I can say that having the wrong offset by 5mm absolutely makes a definite difference in proper look and fit of a wheel.

QUOTE]

I Could not agree more , 5mm (if you are already close) could be "make or break"

Come on guys! I don't know why this thread has me excited but I seriously doubt all these "absolute" "definite" "make or break" type statements from a visual reference. Maybe my eye sight is fading at my age but I will ask again the same answered question: "let us know how close you are to the fenders when you notice this and how far you will need to stand so that this difference disappears?"

Yes having said this again, a 5mm (if you are already close) could be "make or break" if you are talking about BBK adaptation. I have 02+ wheels with Stoptech and my 15 mm just makes it. And with my alignment, they look almost like OEM fit; and yes my car is lowered about 1"! But the OP does not appear to be in this situation. His argument is that he thinks 25 mm will be too much compared to 20 mm strictly from a visual perspective using the OEM height and presumably the brakes. I quote: ".. which appears to leave a few mm of the tire rubber lip sticking out just a hair from the fender line." Well, if he can see that kind of a difference from 30 feet away, kudos to him; please refer me to your optometrist.

But, has he actually done the visual comparisons or just using others' input - which upon further inquiry almost always seem to pop up additional undisclosed variables. Heck changing the tire brand can eliminate that purported 5 mm visual! As for the 4x4 look, that is perhaps true but that was not my point and he already stated he was planning to lower the car anyway which brings us back to why not then use the 25 mm in the first place

For the OP to report that he has had aftermarket wheels on his 10 previous sports cars and then to ask if he can actually "grind" away the stud instead of getting new shorter studs on an exotic .....

Yes to each his own; if it makes the OP happier to grind rather than change to 25 mm or change to shorter studs or pay $60 to be done right, then by all means, it is his safety. As I said, just my $0.02 in using some common sense. YMMV.

 

[996garage]

Hrant,
I'm not sure why this thread has you "excited" either...?

btw, the wheel lug bolt is about the cheapest part on the entire car of a Porsche 996TT ($9 bucks), so I don't see how that is a big deal to you to replace.

Maybe it does sound strange to you, but yes, there are A LOT of guys like me and my friends that will stare at the rear end and sides of a car to see if the wheel offset is absolutely spot on. I will be 1st to admit that I am anal about the specific look of my car.

As for commen sense, you clearly did not read my prior post where I already stated that I would just "hold off" on putting on the bigger spacer until I lowered the car.

 

[Hrant]

No worries; all NSX owners are anal is some way. Just ask my local fellow NSX owners :wink:

And yes, you did state in post #15 to hold off until lowered. But with all due respect to all those who are volunteering suggestions, comments like adding another 3-5 mm spacer behind another spacer just got me excited; just ascribe it to too much eggnog :tongue:

 

[pvmike]

No worries; all NSX owners are anal is some way. Just ask my local fellow NSX owners :wink:

And yes, you did state in post #15 to hold off until lowered. But with all due respect to all those who are volunteering suggestions, comments like adding another 3-5 mm spacer behind another spacer just got me excited; just ascribe it to too much eggnog :tongue:

I see, so it's my fault your logical reasoning flows like your avatar. :tongue: Save some of that nog for me too, Hrant.

I do realize that the spacer behind the adapter solution has the same appeal as wearing two condoms, but I was only offering it as an alternative to grinding down the studs. Leaving it stock is, of course, the best alternative.

Happy holidays!

 

[EuroBoutique]

I have a whole thread on NSX spacer theories as I've tested almost every combination....

Long story short, if you are using OEM 2002+ nsx wheels, you CANNOT use a 20mm integral spacer because the OEM NSX wheels do not have enough clearnace recess to accomodate your oem studs that will protrude past the 20mm spacer.

This is why a 25mm spacer will work as it is thick enough to cover the entire exposed OEM stud.

NSX OEM wheels have no recess but ironically the OEM s2000 wheels have huge recesses. This is probably do the high offset of s2000 wheels.

If you can't find my thread PM me