2 '02 NSXs at Acura 101 West in Calabasas, CA.

[RyRy210]

There are 2 2002 NSX at the Acura dealer at Calabasas. 1 yellow and 1 black. The Black ones looks better IMHO, but over all the car looks a bit tacky for me. I was there doing a major service and was in the show room. A sales person started talking to me like I was interested in buying the car. Then after I told him I owned one myself, it became a good conversation. He told me he was disappointed in the '02 models, and to him personally it is definitely not worth the money. Anyways, for those looking for a '02, there are 2 at Acura 101 West at Calabasas, CA.

 

[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

I flew over to south coast acura with Larry from NSX Mod to scope an '02, I was not very impressed. It looks too 'anime' to me, like Japanese cartoon character. The old school looks more european and classy. (I think anyway!) But I was sailing past Calabassas last nite around 3:30 AM driving home from my new Girlies house in Lake Sherwood . . the 101 is a fun highway . . but I'm not familiar with the police-action in the area so i didnt go too fast!

 

[mlambert890]

I don't think that salesman should have made that value judgement on the car, to be honest.

If the new NSX isn't worth it, in his mind, what NSX ever has been? Was the 99, 00, or 01 "worth it"?

Do you know what I'm driving at? The dealership should try to find the bright side. I just can't imagine a Dodge Dealer saying "yeah, these Vipers really ain't worth this kind of cash". There's something depressing about that...

 

[Jimbo]

The salesman's attitude probably reflect his concern and possible frustration that NSXs aren't selling all that well at the $90K+ price.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
The salesman's attitude probably reflect his concern and possible frustration that NSXs aren't selling all that well at the $90K+ price.

This shouldn't be anything new, since the price (which is under $90K - the MSRP is, anyway) is only a grand more than it's been for the past five years or so.

 

[mlambert890]

Exactly! And is it any wonder they aren't selling well if even a little prodding gets a salesman to say "wow, this thing is overpriced". If the Acura employees don't believe in the car, who will?

You'd NEVER hear a Porsche salesman say this about a 911NA or BoxsterS. Imagine if Ferrari dealers had copped that attitude when the NSX was stealing the press accolades from the F348? It's unthinkable, really...

I wonder how widespread this trend is? We should do a little informal "poll" of our local dealers and feel out their attitude.

If this is going to be the prevailing attitude of US dealers, Honda might as well not bother with the 04. I fear that the dealers are all thinking "why bother with the NSX when we can sell 10,000,000 RSX's to college kids and make quota". Lame...


[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 04 April 2002).]

 

[gheba_nsx]

Ken, I see it differently... ok it is only 1'000$ above the price it had before but the car is "the same" it was before and the competition got better and better.... the '02 996 has 320ps, also the new M3 is very very fast as is the Z06, ... all those cars costs a lot less money than the NSX.

So in 1997 it was ok to pay more for the NSX than for the competition, in 1998 it was ok but "less ok" than in '97, ... and in '02 we are really getting a bit stretched with the real value of the NSX. In my opinion it is overpriced and I am saying this despite I am a HUGE

fans of this car...

 

[nsxtasy]

I'm not saying that there aren't other cars that can be called a better value for the money than the NSX; there are. That was true in 1991, just as it is true today. And yes, the NSX is overdue for a complete re-do.

All I am saying is that there really isn't any value difference between the 2001 NSX and the 2002 NSX. Remember, with the 2002, you get HID lights and you get a refreshed styling (whether you like it or not, you can tell by looking at it that it's a newer car) and those items are worth the $1000 increase.

Anyone complaining about the value of the 2002 NSX should have been (and probably was) complaining about the value of the 2001 NSX as well. So this is nothing new.

 

[RyRy210]

I think he was expecting a entirely new NSX and not a facelifted NSX, like most of us did last year. He only made those comments because he knew I own an NSX and am not at all interested in a '02. I really doubt he would say those things to a prospective buyer. I mean, the '02 is not really a "new" NSX. Its an old 3.2L V6 6 speed NSX with new headlights, bumpers + others, wheels, and badging. I mean, when Honda said that there was going to be a new NSX, we were all speculating about the V8 and everything until one day we found out that the new NSX they were talking about was just a face-lifted NSX. Maybe his perception of the value of this car is inline with his disappointed in the changes made with it in '02.

 

[bobyang]

To give a different salesman perspective, when I went to check out the 2002 at Stevens Creek, the first thing the guy tried to get me to do was trade in my '91.

His arguements were "It's got HID, so the lighting is now EXPANSIVE and PANORAMIC at night" and "it's more aerodynamic, so even though the engine's the same as the previous generation, it's faster".

At least he was trying to push the car

 

[flaminio]

Originally posted by byang:
To give a different salesman perspective, when I went to check out the 2002 at Stevens Creek, the first thing the guy tried to get me to do was trade in my '91.

Hey, me too! That guy was totally pining for my '94. LOL!

-Bob

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by RyRy210:
I think he was expecting a entirely new NSX and not a facelifted NSX, like most of us did last year.

Most of us have known for much longer than that that the 2002 NSX would only be a facelift, and that the next-gen NSX would be another couple of years away. For example, that was reported in the August 2000 Road & Track, mentioned here on NSXprime in July 2000.

 

[flaminio]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
For example, that was reported in the August 2000 Road & Track, mentioned here on NSXprime in July 2000.

LOL! Check out your response to that old thread, Ken. Called that one, eh?

-Bob

 

[nsxtasy]

Oh, I was absolutely wrong in my prediction, I admit.

I still think that facelifting the NSX had to be a proposition that was impossible to cost-justify. Now, I have no idea how much it costs to facelift a car, but those costs have to include the design and engineering of all the parts, the changes to the production process, the stocking of additional new parts in inventory, the changes to the service manual as well as training techs in the differences, etc etc etc. I've heard that the development costs for an all-new model of most cars run in the upper hundreds of millions of dollars. Granted, a facelift is relatively minor, but still... if it cost (just to pick a number) five million dollars, and you spread that cost over 400 cars sold in two years, that's over $10K per car!

Bottom line, I think, is that the face-lifting decision is impossible to justify by itself, unless it serves some other purpose in addition to helping sell those 400 cars; otherwise, it would make more sense to just kill it. And I think the other purpose it serves can only be to keep the NSX alive and give it enough publicity to sustain it to prepare for a next-generation introduction in a couple of years . So I think we can see a silverstone silver lining in the refresh, insofar as it supports the pending introduction of an all-new NSX, as we've been told. Of course, I could be wrong about this, too...

 

[RyRy210]

I think the perception of value is inline with consumer expectations. I think most people were pretty diappointed with the '02, I know all of my friends didn't like it.

I remember a friend coming up to me and telling me he saw a fixed up NSX with a body kit, fixed headlights (common mod in RX-7s), different exhaust, and integra badging. He told me it was so ugly. Then I showed him my '02 brochure... and all he said was... "Ooops.. my bad"....

 

[mlambert890]

Well, every person is entitled to their opinion, but I hardly think the 02 is such an enormous departure from the traditional styling that the NSX can now be declared ugly.

I know a lot of people were disapointed with the 02 "refresh", but it isn't such a huge difference.

I think Ken is right, btw. The refresh was just to give the car mags an excuse to write about the NSX and keep it from fading into obscurity while Honda prepares the next gen.

It worked, actually. The Motor Trend article was a testament to this and, low and behold, the dated, ugly, overpriced 02 NSX did pretty darn well against the untouchable 02 Z06 and the vaunted 911.


[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 05 April 2002).]

 

[NSX-00054]

Well maybe some of you NSX critics of the new 2002 will be more interested in a couple years when used ones start showing up and you can buy one for 40% off.

 

[RyRy210]

Originally posted by NSX-00054:
Well maybe some of you NSX critics of the new 2002 will be more interested in a couple years when used ones start showing up and you can buy one for 40% off.

I think that this would most likely be for those who have never owned an NSX before and like to own one now. Current owners will more than likely stick with their current model (my guess). My current service guy at the Acura dealer who owns a NSX is just picking and choosing parts from the '02 parts bin to install on his car. Even the salesman at Calabasas told me to wait for the redesigned NSX to come out (and this is when he whipped out his business card). I agree with him, but it feels weird taking advice from a car salesman. I think in a couple years when/if the '02 NSX drops 40% in value, the redesigned NSX will probably be out by then. Like Spookyp said, this is just an opinion, and everyone has their own.

[This message has been edited by RyRy210 (edited 05 April 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by RyRy210:
it feels weird taking advice from a car salesman.

Even a stopped watch has the correct time twice a day...

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 05 April 2002).]

 

[gheba_nsx]

Ken, you wrote: "Anyone complaining about the value of the 2002 NSX should have been (and probably was) complaining about the value of the 2001 NSX as well. So this is nothing new."

I am not sure about this. The '02 is quite worse than the '01 since it is one year more dated in everything (except the HID, ok).
In the last five years (I consider the '97 model the last real step for NSXs) there has been no valuable change in the car and the '02 is 25% older than the '01 (4 vs 5 years).

Furthermore in the last year the most important NSX rival (that IS the 996) gained other 20ps becoming considerably more appealing than our car to the general public (less expensive, prestige brand, more performance AND hids

), so IMHO the '02 is much more disappointing than the '01... and they had to make the car uglier to achieve this

 

[ck]

I have a comment to make about how everyone says the 996 is so much cheaper. Although the base price is below 70k, you would be hard pressed to get out of the dealer spending less than 80k for a reasonably optioned model. A base Carrera 2 doesn't even come with a leather interior. A full leather interior is a $4,000 option. You also have to pay extra for any of the metallic or custom paints, which most people do. You want a spoiler? That's easy, $3400. power seats, $1500. porsche stability management, $1325. Footwell lighting? $725! Wheels that are not horribly ugly, another $1325. These are all standard things on the NSX. I do like how you have so many choices to customize your car straight from the factory, however. The NSX base price is basically the final price because the only option available is a CD Changer. Don't get me wrong, I like the 996 with a GT3 kit as much as the next guy, but it just isn't that much cheaper like everyone thinks. Yeah, it can be had for less, if you don't want leather, etc., but it's not exactly a fair comparison.

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 08 April 2002).]

 

[gheba_nsx]

I do not say it is much cheaper but it is also not more expensive, even with the "common" options (leather, traction control, ...).

I perfectely know the NSX ha a good value, but tell the average customer that for the same price he can choose between a Porsche 996 and an Acura NSX. Acura what?

Furthermore now, the Porsche also looks much better from a "performance-number" points of view and you see why the NSX sells 50x less times than the 996...

 

[nicholas421]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:

..the NSX sells 50x less times than the 996...

the day nsx sales figures match porsche sales figures is the day i sell my nsx

 

[gheba_nsx]

...and to buy what?

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
I perfectely know the NSX ha a good value, but tell the average customer that for the same price he can choose between a Porsche 996 and an Acura NSX. Acura what?

Then the average customer is an idiot.

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
Furthermore now, the Porsche also looks much better from a "performance-number" points of view

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

From a "performance numbers" point of view, the normally-aspirated 996 is slower than the NSX, even though it has more horsepower. Typical magazine test figures, for example, have the NSX doing 0-60 in 4.7 to 4.8, and the 996 in 4.9 or so.

The 911 Turbo is a different story, but for that much money, it ought to be.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 09 April 2002).]