Decoding the EUDM VIN

[midNight Sun Xpress]

We have a thread going in the Club Honda Norway Forum about a VIN posted. We have checked three different VINs and they are all on the same format:
JHMNA11500T000xxx.
The digit before the T should be the letter M for 1991 according to the US VIN. We all have a 0.

I found this on the internet:
VIN:
field value description
country: J Japan
manufacturer: H Honda
make: M (invalid. must be: 4) - 4 is for US, M=2 dr coupe
engine: NA1 3.0L (C30A)
body & transmission: 1 2-door manual
trim: 5 1991-1995 NSX Coupe with Manual Steering, Driver Airbag, Active Beltcheck
digit:0 invalid. should be 1 - this is the check digit and the check fails as there is an M in the third digit and not 4 as expected for US market,
model year: 0 invalid. must be: M,N,P,R,S,T,V,W,X,Y,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F - this is the field in question, is 0=1990 or EUDM 1991?
assembly plant: T Tochigi, Japan
serial number: 100012 okay

 

[nsxtasy]

The tenth character of the VIN is 0 (zero) for most European markets, and does NOT refer to "1990". The reason Honda does not use this digit to distinguish model years is that, in much of Europe, the model year of a car is determined not when it is built, but by the date when it is first sold by a dealership. So if a car is built in 1991 but it sits in a dealer showroom until 1994, it is considered a 1994 model year car. As you can tell from this illustration, there would be no way to know when a car will be first sold at the time that it is built.

 

[midNight Sun Xpress]

Thanks for clearing up this for us, and I see your (or rather Hondas) point. But this argument should apply for any market?

Is it possible to determine the year built by the serial number?

For 1991 and 1992 NSXes we can tell the production year from the absences of passenger side airbag, but are there any other signs to look for in the later models? (1992-1995)

In Norway, model year is the same as the year the car is sold until August. Cars sold August or later in the year, is considered next years model. This is because upgrades normally are launched in the fall.

However the insurance companies use the year of first registration, which not always favour the owner when repair costs is calculated.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Serial 100012, where 100012 is the productionyear -1. Thus this is a 1992 build car.
000012 would be a 1991

Mine is 100266, which is registered and sold in 1993, but clearly a 1992 build.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

In much of Europe, the model year of a car is determined not when it is built, but by the date when it is first sold by a dealership. So if a car is built in 1991 but it sits in a dealer showroom until 1994, it is considered a 1994 model year car.

To add:

If you buy a new car, it will be ordered from where-ever, lets say japan.
So you order a car in november 2008, then you will get it delivered somewhere in februari 2009, but basicly you get a 2008 car, with registration in 2009.
So only if you will order in the beginning of 2008, you will get a 2008 car, simply because cardealers don't hold stock overhere. Everything is on special order from factory.
However, if a dealer has a car sitting in the showroom for over a few years, its called an overyeared model, and i'm sure he has to tell the new owner that it has been sitting in the showroom for a long time, and its not the latest model.

To make it a bit more confusing:
My NSX was imported from germany to holland back in 2000, though it is sold originaly in 1993 in germany, but is actualy made in 1992 in japan.
All this information is traceable on the paperwork from the dutch registration.
I'm not sure if the ducth model is conform european model.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

To add:

If you buy a new car, it will be ordered from where-ever, lets say japan.
So you order a car in november 2008, then you will get it delivered somewhere in februari 2009, but basicly you get a 2008 car, with registration in 2009.
So only if you will order in the beginning of 2008, you will get a 2008 car, simply because cardealers don't hold stock overhere. Everything is on special order from factory.
However, if a dealer has a car sitting in the showroom for over a few years, its called an overyeared model, and i'm sure he has to tell the new owner that it has been sitting in the showroom for a long time, and its not the latest model.

To make it a bit more confusing:
My NSX was imported from germany to holland back in 2000, though it is sold originaly in 1993 in germany, but is actualy made in 1992 in japan.
All this information is traceable on the paperwork from the dutch registration.
I'm not sure if the ducth model is conform european model.

Correct but not completely dealers will sell the car as a new car thus stating it's let say a 93 when it was made in 91. if doesn't have a licence plates yet thus not formally nor legally registered it will go as a 93.

Unless the authority's look at production date via the VIN or Certificate of Origin. which not all do.

 

[MvM]

Adding a note and at the same time Giving a Warning.

At the moment there are about 40-45 NSX's for sale all over Europe.

Apart from the fact the people are asking (very) high prices for these cars, a lot of cars are being advertised as 1193, 1994 or even later models whereas in fact they are in reality just 1991-1992 models.

So, for anyone looking for a NSX in Europe (as I am):

ALWAYS ASK FOR AND CHECK THE VIN !!!

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Adding a note and at the same time Giving a Warning.

At the moment there are about 40-45 NSX's for sale all over Europe.

Apart from the fact the people are asking (very) high prices for these cars, a lot of cars are being advertised as 1193, 1994 or even later models whereas in fact they are in reality just 1991-1992 models.

So, for anyone looking for a NSX in Europe (as I am):

ALWAYS ASK FOR AND CHECK THE VIN !!!

Very true,

I'd say pricing to be at 29-32.000 euro for a nice NA1
NA2 prices are very very overpriced

 

[goldNSX]

Adding a note and at the same time Giving a Warning.

At the moment there are about 40-45 NSX's for sale all over Europe.

Apart from the fact the people are asking (very) high prices for these cars, a lot of cars are being advertised as 1193, 1994 or even later models whereas in fact they are in reality just 1991-1992 models.

So, for anyone looking for a NSX in Europe (as I am):

ALWAYS ASK FOR AND CHECK THE VIN !!!

Well, it may help reducing the price if a car is revealed as a 91 instead of being advertised as a 93. But in fact, the only major difference to me is the passanger airbag which is negligible (ok, to me). There are much more things to take care of with a 20 years old car which degrade even an NSX and even if the service manual is up to date. Don't ask me how I know (but that's just me).
The main difference was in 94: new wheels and shorter gears.

I'd not say that NSX in Europe are overpriced. Perfectly maintained cars with no horror-history are worth their money but people decide against them as there are also other cars out there regardless how good the NSX was 20 years ago. The problem is that most of the cars have been neglected and get for sale waiting for a buyer to burn a hole in his pocket.
But now, I'm completely way OT. :wink:

nsxtasy hits the nail.

There's a 1991 waiting for 20 years in the showroom and if it gets registrated it will be a 2010. Anyone wanna beat that?

Maarten, didn't you find an NSX amoung this big amount of cars for sale in Europe? In Switzerland we've more than 10 cars for sale at above EUR 27k but noone got sold within the last year.

 

[MvM]

Hi Thomas,

I think we think alike :smile:

And no, I have not found my NSX yet !!

I have contacted quite a few people in the last years who has a NSX for sale, but in many cases it turned out to be a 1991 model instead of the 1994-1995 they claimed it to be

There was a very nice red 2003 NSX for sale in Germany but in January it disappeared from www.mobile.de. Don't know what happened to it.

There is a 1998 NSX coupe for sale in Switzerland right now but again, for a very high high price (around 60K Euro, which is way too much). Also, it is the wrong color.
There is a very similar silver NSX Coupe for sale in the US, also in Silver but at a more reasonable price, 44K US$.

Another car that might be interesting is a Red (right color) 1996 NSX for sale in Germany but again at a very hight price. They're asking 48K Euros even though the car has been for sale for almost 1.5 year now.

But don't worry, the search continues :biggrin:

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Hi Thomas,

I think we think alike :smile:

And no, I have not found my NSX yet !!

I have contacted quite a few people in the last years who has a NSX for sale, but in many cases it turned out to be a 1991 model instead of the 1994-1995 they claimed it to be

There was a very nice red 2003 NSX for sale in Germany but in January it disappeared from www.mobile.de. Don't know what happened to it.

There is a 1998 NSX coupe for sale in Switzerland right now but again, for a very high high price (around 60K Euro, which is way too much). Also, it is the wrong color.
There is a very similar silver NSX Coupe for sale in the US, also in Silver but at a more reasonable price, 44K US$.

Another car that might be interesting is a Red (right color) 1996 NSX for sale in Germany but again at a very hight price. They're asking 48K Euros even though the car has been for sale for almost 1.5 year now.

But don't worry, the search continues :biggrin:

Well you can always import a acura.
Then convert it to a Honda.

There is a good looking NSX auto for sale on the forum for just €13k.
You could import it and convert it to a 5spd (don't forget those cam shafts) would be a nice project. although nico might buy it.

 

[goldNSX]

Well you can always import a acura.
Then convert it to a Honda.

There is a good looking NSX auto for sale on the forum for just €13k.
You could import it and convert it to a 5spd (don't forget those cam shafts) would be a nice project. although nico might buy it.

A conversion from an auto to a manual is not very wise. This has been discussed here 1000 times.

 

[goldNSX]

Hi Thomas,

I think we think alike :smile:

And no, I have not found my NSX yet !!

I have contacted quite a few people in the last years who has a NSX for sale, but in many cases it turned out to be a 1991 model instead of the 1994-1995 they claimed it to be

There was a very nice red 2003 NSX for sale in Germany but in January it disappeared from www.mobile.de. Don't know what happened to it.

There is a 1998 NSX coupe for sale in Switzerland right now but again, for a very high high price (around 60K Euro, which is way too much). Also, it is the wrong color.
There is a very similar silver NSX Coupe for sale in the US, also in Silver but at a more reasonable price, 44K US$.

Another car that might be interesting is a Red (right color) 1996 NSX for sale in Germany but again at a very hight price. They're asking 48K Euros even though the car has been for sale for almost 1.5 year now.

But don't worry, the search continues :biggrin:

Hi Maarten,

Forget about the cars in Switzerland. :wink: They will cost you too much customs (+20%?). Same for the US cars. If you don't fly to the US and have a look at it with your own eyes I'd not do it. It's too risky. The Swiss car 98 was sold for about EUR 30k some months ago and they did a TB/WP job. Even not sure if the WP was new from Honda as I've seen a local eBay-like auctionguessing it's not! After all the car must surely be worth EUR 20k more.

What's wrong with a 91? These are the best quality of NSX's you can get. 97+ are way overpriced in Europe for what you can get. A newer Porsche would be my choice then.

Good luck!

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

A conversion from an auto to a manual is not very wise. This has been discussed here 1000 times.

It isn't easy nor cost effective but for a project build it will keep you busy :tongue:.

Anyway i'd say import a Acura only problem would be that you have those ugly reflectors and airbag.
Any used car you buy is always a risk.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Thomas does have a good point,
A 91 is just as good and can easily be made as nice as a newer model the changes are so subtle.

For example take a look at Mike's car with the new seat covers (02+ style) the car looks so much newer, you can even go as far as swapping arm rests and installing a extra airbag (now that will be way to much work).

 

[goldNSX]

It isn't easy nor cost effective but for a project build it will keep you busy :tongue:.

Anyway i'd say import a Acura only problem would be that you have those ugly reflectors and airbag.
Any used car you buy is always a risk.

Busy yes and poor also yes. Because if you really want the power of a manual you have to swap the engine also.

The NSX is very, very expensive to repair or to refresh. If you can check the car carefully and personally some major risks can be reduced. If you buy one off eBay.com and open the Pandora's box at the port of Amsterdam I'd like to see the $$$$-like or Donald Duck-eyes which count all the wrong or damaged parts of the car together. :wink: I'm not saying that US cars are all that way but in the recent past the condition of the cars on the average went south. Ok, I have expectations which can't be met in this world. :tongue: If you have limited funds CHECK the car PERSONALLY except you love the NSX more than your wife and she does what you say.

About the airbag: Is there a chance that it will work on a 93 anyway? These airbags are 17 years old. Well, no risk, no fun! If if doens't work it will save my hearing.

EDIT (no 58): Did you see this car: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...ORT&customerIdsAsString=&lang=de&pageNumber=1

on mobile.de in 23669 Timmendorfer Strand.

This is Bambi's car of the German board. I've never seen the car but I know the guy who's selling it. Maybe one of the best cars out there for a fair amount of money.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Busy yes and poor also yes. Because if you really want the power of a manual you have to swap the engine also.

The NSX is very, very expensive to repair or to refresh. If you can check the car carefully and personally some major risks can be reduced. If you buy one off eBay.com and open the Pandora's box at the port of Amsterdam I'd like to see the $$$$-like or Donald Duck-eyes which count all the wrong or damaged parts of the car together. :wink: I'm not saying that US cars are all that way but in the recent past the condition of the cars on the average went south. Ok, I have expectations which can't be met in this world. :tongue: If you have limited funds CHECK the car PERSONALLY except you love the NSX more than your wife and she does what you say.

About the airbag: Is there a chance that it will work on a 93 anyway? These airbags are 17 years old. Well, no risk, no fun! If if doens't work it will save my hearing.

EDIT (no 58): Did you see this car: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...ORT&customerIdsAsString=&lang=de&pageNumber=1

on mobile.de in 23669 Timmendorfer Strand.

This is Bambi's car of the German board. I've never seen the car but I know the guy who's selling it. Maybe one of the best cars out there for a fair amount of money.

Well if you buy a NSX at the dealer here it can still go wrong just ask Ricardo (RHP1978) his engine blew just after buying the car.

Also there are ways to minimize problems when buy a car in the US just wildly bidding on a car on Ebay would not be one of them.

Have friends, board members, family check it out.
Secondly always prepare for the worst a bit of a pessimistic attitude is needed don't be naive then you will get bitten badly.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

That NA1 for sale. doesn't look nice from the pics and i really don't like they way the Honda badges where covered up.

 

[goldNSX]

That NA1 for sale. doesn't look nice from the pics and i really don't like they way the Honda badges where covered up.

Polishing: maybe a few hours, EUR 20
New badges EUR 50?

Maybe total EUR 70. Most people run to the dealer and pay EUR 5000 more and the dealer does nothing else than investing EUR 70. :idea: I'd prefer a near to stock car than a highly or vastly modified car with crazy gaps all over the body due to it's cheap body-kit but that's just me.

Engine blow-up. As the NSX market is a buyer's market I'd do a engine oil analysis blackstone does. I've done 4 of them and it is a simple as sending a small parcel to the US. :wink:

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Polishing: maybe a few hours, EUR 20
New badges EUR 50?

Maybe total EUR 70. Most people run to the dealer and pay EUR 5000 more and the dealer does nothing else than investing EUR 70. :idea: I'd prefer a near to stock car than a highly or vastly modified car with crazy gaps all over the body due to it's cheap body-kit but that's just me.

Engine blow-up. As the NSX market is a buyer's market I'd do a engine oil analysis blackstone does. I've done 4 of them and it is a simple as sending a small parcel to the US. :wink:

i know but it's just to prove the point buying locally isn't 100% safe too. although you are right that importing adds more risk.

Although you should not attach value on pictures real life is usually a different story. and that's where there is the risk in buying sight unseen.

 

[goldNSX]

Although you should not attach value on pictures real life is usually a different story. and that's where there is the risk in buying sight unseen.

I agree with you on the main message. When I'm after a car which means more than 30 minutes to drive I let the seller send me high-resolution pictures of various parts like car itself like paint in the sun, service booklet and so on. If the seller is willing to send me that I get quite an accurate picture and know if I'd see it in person or better stay away.
I've to admit that I was dealing with cars about 20 years ago but don't do anymore as I do much more money in a completly other business. I've learned plenty of getting cheated. 99% of all the people are very sensitive to the optical state of the car. Squirls all over the car, a little scratch here and there, a stain on the carpet and so on. From the point of view of a professional (which I'm not ) they are minor to fix. If you don't do it yourself get it to a detailer and EUR 200-300 or so later the car nearly looks like new or much better. A scratch in the paint is not the world end. Professionals can do much, long before you repaint the whole car. Some 'bad' car-painters recommend to repaint it because their wallet tells them so. Of course there are also honest guys out there. But the buyers concentrate so much on the minor 'bad' things that they get offended and stay away. They prefer to buy the perfect looking car with the engine going boom than the not-quite good looking one with a healthy engine. Moreover, 99% of all buyers are technical 'idiots' (well, not quite but I hope you know what I mean). They only have eyes and no technical or detective brain. Women are the worst of all as they buy with the heart but buying a car is a completly rational thing. Well not quite, deciding what car (NSX or Porsche) is emotional but the rest should be truely rational. That's why it's so good to get a friend joining the buyer as four eyes see more and two of them are not buying the car but just judgeing it. What is even better if you can't take your friend with you is to leave your wife at home as it may end in a disaster. :tongue:

That's why it's so easy to sell them their shining dream car with a one year guarranty which only covers the engine and gearbox. They feel safe doing so but actually it's only the second best they can do.

Enough for today.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Squirls all over the car

What??? They cover those cars in nuts? Whats the point of that!?

:tongue:



(nvm my comment, i found a barrel of Quiness in me liquor store)

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

What??? They cover those cars in nuts? Whats the point of that!?

:tongue:



(nvm my comment, i found a barrel of Quiness in me liquor store)

lol:biggrin: