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Downforce - Paint Service

Joined
7 April 2001
Messages
526
Location
SoCAL, CA , USA
Greetings everyone. I just wanted to announce to everyone in Southern California that we offer painting as one of our standard business services. We can do fast turn around times and quality work. We prefer to work on high quality jobs but can do whatever you want and budget you want to work with. Even if you want PPG we can do it.


Materials
We use Glasurit products which is the best paint I've worked with in the automotive refinish market. I personally tried Sickens, Standox and Spies Hecker. Probably my second pick would be Spies Hecker. I'm not even going to mention the normal cheap paints such as PPG, Dupont, House of Kolors, Sherwin William. Just the clearcoat that I use alone cost more then these regular basecoat paints. If you want to know the really crappy brand just look for the $70 clearcoats which you'll find in a lot of shops. Paint is about more then the surface quality, it is also the components such as mar resistance, cross-links, uv inhibitors, etc.


Equipment
We are fully equipped with SATA and Iwata guns. 3 stage SATA air cleaner and dryers along with 2 external air line dryers from the compressor side. We have 2 large medium wave curing lamps with laser thermal protection running on 480v. Multiple guns for certain jobs such as whites only, pearls, blacks, reds, etc. We are equipped for water based paints also and certified.


Lead-Times
If you needed a part sprayed such as a bumper, spoiler, fender this can be done within the same week (2-3 days on average).


Labor Rates
If you wanted to save money, just bring in the parts and we'll shoot it for you. You can install it yourself and save. The labor rate is based on removal and installation. Install is usually almost twice the rate as the removal because requires attention and slow process with more liabilities on our end.


Our Standard
All of our paint jobs are complete disassembly and paint. Taking off the panel to paint is roughly twice as expensive because the labor is much more intensive with carefully putting the panel back without putting any scratches and fitting it back. When panels are shot off the car this insures full coverage and a true quality job.

95% of paint shops (collision shops) will shoot with parts on the car which causes messy paint edges especially against rubber seals. Also you will get overspray somewhere. Maybe in your radiator, wheels, window or other body panel. If you got bodywork the most common thing dealers look for is primer overspray and primer powder (from sanding parts while on your car). Collision shops operate on high volume and fast work and are in no way qualified to do show cars. This means little attention to details.

You will be getting the best paint along with high quality work. If you are going to be comparing prices make sure it is apples to apples. Our material cost exceeds other brands. If you wanted to really do a check to see if the shop is telling the truth, have them show you what is in their paint cabinet at the moment.


COMMON SENSE
*If they are not stocking a certain brand of paint they are not going to order it just for you. So they will be lying to you.

*The reason why paint prices varies so much is because of the components of the chemicals. Higher quality agents for better durability, life, surface quality, etc. PPG is the most popular paint carried by collision shops, the statistics is proof enough. Try wiping acetone on any aftermarket finish and you'll see the cheap paint will melt right off or distort. Expensive paints properly cross-links and will truly cure making solvents harmless.

*Blending is a bad practice, ever notice a car with only one faded panel? That is a blend job. There is no such thing as a blending solvent that will last more than 3 years.



Prices
Here are some sample pricing for Glasurit (RED is paint work / BLACK is removal+install)
Front Bumper OEM: $450 / $225.00
DF Front Bumper: $395 / $181.25
Hood: $300 / $50.00
Side Skirt (pair): $500 / $87.50
Door Panel (pair): $130 / $18.75
Door Mirror (each): $90 / $125.00
Rear Spoiler: $250 / $43.75
Roof Color Change (Coupe no pillars): $445 / $462.50
 
Excellent. I got a few things I think I will be sending your way. But first can youa dvise if you provide any kind of guarantee on the paint?
 
if you are painting individual pieces, how are you going to insure that they match the rest of the car? must paint places have to either blend them or shoot more than one panel to achieve a matching product. Fiberglass and urethanes are even harder to match because alot of times the paint settles on them different giving them darker or lighter appearances. just curious. thanks
 
if you are painting individual pieces, how are you going to insure that they match the rest of the car? must paint places have to either blend them or shoot more than one panel to achieve a matching product. Fiberglass and urethanes are even harder to match because alot of times the paint settles on them different giving them darker or lighter appearances. just curious. thanks

Hello nsxinohio,
color matching is done only on white and metallics, perhaps the worst color matching experience I had was the long beach blue pearl, I had to repaint 3 times to get it right. Kaiser Silver, Silverstone Metallic and Spa yellow is easier to match then the blue. Most of the times we just shoot off the factory code. Each factory code has different variances depending on which VIN number is your car. Variance is just a fancy way for the factory saying "opps we screwed up for this run", so the color doesn't match the intended color. Variances usually happens when the sprayers are offline during a color change, weather conditions or human error. Ever since factories switched to water based paint, color variances are down by over 80% in Japan.

If you look at new OEM cars you will notice that not all colors truly match from the front bumper versus the hood or the door. Different materials being sprayed on may give off different colors. This is the reason why factories try to stay with one universal primer color "Grey". However usually the urethane and polymer bumpers will always give off a darker color.

We have painted quite a few panels from code ranging from grand prix white, new formula red, formula red, spa yellow pearl, silverstone metallic, berlina black and championship white. All seem to be good, however it was hard for us to gauge on how well it matches because these were out of state NSXs. Perhaps these customers may chime in on how well the color matched. I always try to ask if everything was okay and the reply was all good.

The reason why a color would change over time is because urethane clearcoat on cars will yellow over time with the exposure to the sun. The heat cycle it goes through along with the UV-B spectrum causes the yellowing. Once you have a yellow tinted clearcoat it slightly changes the color appearance of the car. So on a blue car, the blue may seem a little more greener then usual. On a red car it would look a little bit more orange, then a deep gloss red. The color that fairs the best against color tinting and best color matching abilities is black.

Remember, blending is not a good idea. Not one paint company has perfected a blending solvent. The purpose of blending is to spray the color and transition it to the original panel. Once the blending solvent is sprayed it semi-melts the old clear coat and allows the new clearcoat to look like it is level against the old clear coat. I don't see the purpose of blending because the job is not going to hold up for over 2-3 years (parked outside daily in California weather). When it begins to fade it will look very nasty (dried out). To help preserve blend jobs its best to have the car stay away from the sun, then it can last for much longer.

Through manufacturing standards, the manufacturer is not allowed to have a color variance off by more then a certain degree. A non technical reference that bodyshops go by is called "shades", the variances should not exceed by 3 shades. So shooting off of code, you can't be off by more then 3 shades when comparing to a relatively good paint condition.

By adding more yellow toner into the paint, it will still fade differently as the new paint begin to age it will start to darken. So the best solution I feel is to shoot off a factory code. Once the clearcoat yellows out, it will stay that color.

What I can insure is that the paint will be no more than 3 shades off, the average person can not tell from 1 shade off and barely can tell 2 shades off. If there are any customers that would like to vent about their experiences "good or bad" please do so here so other members can see the benefits or the disadvantages / problems that they had encountered. At this point the best way to make your judgment is by what you know and what you think is best for yourself. Not everyone has the same mentality so I can only say that everything in here is speaking for myself. The technical information is factual and is presented to help you understand how paint works so you can make a better judgment for yourself. For those that has done business with me before I always back up my work.

If I avoid your question please let me know. I can try again to explain how I can ensure color matching on vehicles not present here.

As a side note: If you get an aftermarket paint job, you might want to stick with an expensive clearcoat because cheap clearcoats lack chemical agents that help inhibit the UV light spectrum that would fade the basecoat underneath. The toner/pigment of the basecoat is not resistant against fading out. Cheap clearcoats are easier to shoot because of the lack of chemical agents, it lays out smoother and less chances of any negative reactions. The trade off burden would be put upon the customer.
 
Hello nsxinohio,
color matching is done only on white and metallics, perhaps the worst color matching experience I had was the long beach blue pearl, I had to repaint 3 times to get it right. Kaiser Silver, Silverstone Metallic and Spa yellow is easier to match then the blue.

How about Imola?
 
Sweet! I have a red NSX-R hood for my 02 LBB that needs to be painted.

After reading this part of your post, "perhaps the worst color matching experience I had was the long beach blue pearl, I had to repaint 3 times to get it right." I take it you guys have it figured out.... right?

Can you guys drill and install the washer nipples (not sure what they are called) in a CF hood?
 
Hello There,

I am looking to repaint my 05 rear bumper SPA YELLOW...

When I purchased it the seller claimed it to be SPA yellow but once the bumper was on it was clearly not...

Can you advise if you are still doing this service since the post is from 2008?

Jeff

Greetings everyone. I just wanted to announce to everyone in Southern California that we offer painting as one of our standard business services. We can do fast turn around times and quality work. We prefer to work on high quality jobs but can do whatever you want and budget you want to work with. Even if you want PPG we can do it.


Materials
We use Glasurit products which is the best paint I've worked with in the automotive refinish market. I personally tried Sickens, Standox and Spies Hecker. Probably my second pick would be Spies Hecker. I'm not even going to mention the normal cheap paints such as PPG, Dupont, House of Kolors, Sherwin William. Just the clearcoat that I use alone cost more then these regular basecoat paints. If you want to know the really crappy brand just look for the $70 clearcoats which you'll find in a lot of shops. Paint is about more then the surface quality, it is also the components such as mar resistance, cross-links, uv inhibitors, etc.


Equipment
We are fully equipped with SATA and Iwata guns. 3 stage SATA air cleaner and dryers along with 2 external air line dryers from the compressor side. We have 2 large medium wave curing lamps with laser thermal protection running on 480v. Multiple guns for certain jobs such as whites only, pearls, blacks, reds, etc. We are equipped for water based paints also and certified.


Lead-Times
If you needed a part sprayed such as a bumper, spoiler, fender this can be done within the same week (2-3 days on average).


Labor Rates
If you wanted to save money, just bring in the parts and we'll shoot it for you. You can install it yourself and save. The labor rate is based on removal and installation. Install is usually almost twice the rate as the removal because requires attention and slow process with more liabilities on our end.


Our Standard
All of our paint jobs are complete disassembly and paint. Taking off the panel to paint is roughly twice as expensive because the labor is much more intensive with carefully putting the panel back without putting any scratches and fitting it back. When panels are shot off the car this insures full coverage and a true quality job.

95% of paint shops (collision shops) will shoot with parts on the car which causes messy paint edges especially against rubber seals. Also you will get overspray somewhere. Maybe in your radiator, wheels, window or other body panel. If you got bodywork the most common thing dealers look for is primer overspray and primer powder (from sanding parts while on your car). Collision shops operate on high volume and fast work and are in no way qualified to do show cars. This means little attention to details.

You will be getting the best paint along with high quality work. If you are going to be comparing prices make sure it is apples to apples. Our material cost exceeds other brands. If you wanted to really do a check to see if the shop is telling the truth, have them show you what is in their paint cabinet at the moment.


COMMON SENSE
*If they are not stocking a certain brand of paint they are not going to order it just for you. So they will be lying to you.

*The reason why paint prices varies so much is because of the components of the chemicals. Higher quality agents for better durability, life, surface quality, etc. PPG is the most popular paint carried by collision shops, the statistics is proof enough. Try wiping acetone on any aftermarket finish and you'll see the cheap paint will melt right off or distort. Expensive paints properly cross-links and will truly cure making solvents harmless.

*Blending is a bad practice, ever notice a car with only one faded panel? That is a blend job. There is no such thing as a blending solvent that will last more than 3 years.



Prices
Here are some sample pricing for Glasurit (RED is paint work / BLACK is removal+install)
Front Bumper OEM: $450 / $225.00
DF Front Bumper: $395 / $181.25
Hood: $300 / $50.00
Side Skirt (pair): $500 / $87.50
Door Panel (pair): $130 / $18.75
Door Mirror (each): $90 / $125.00
Rear Spoiler: $250 / $43.75
Roof Color Change (Coupe no pillars): $445 / $462.50
 
Last edited:
Guys this is from 2008. Downforce isn't painting anything.
 
They still paint. They're repainting my car right now. It's been at their shop since March. :frown:
 
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