I'll be the first to say it...
Vettel on pole....that's what I'm talking about.
Vettel on pole....that's what I'm talking about.
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F1 2009 megathread
- Thread starter NSXrebel
- Start date
Wow! Now that's a shakeup... I figured RBR would be up there, but I NEVER expected Alonso to be in P2! Congrats to Vettel!
Our boys in Brawn in 4th and 5th... disappointing for sure, but hopefully they can pull it together in the race!
Our boys in Brawn in 4th and 5th... disappointing for sure, but hopefully they can pull it together in the race!
Those Adrian Newey cars are sick fast and they showed it in Q. Kudos to BBB for a solid finish, and to Alonso for turning in a wicked lap. Full lineup below ... I wonder what the fuel loads were?
Q3
1 Vettel 1:36.184
2 Alonso 1:36.381
3 Webber 1:36.466
4 Barrichello 1:35.493
5 Button 1:36.532
6 Trulli 1:36.835
7 Rosberg 1:37.397
8 Räikkönen 1:38.089
9 Hamilton 1:38.595
10 Buemi 1:39.321
Q2
11 Heidfeld 1:35.975
12 Kovalainen 1:36.032
13 Massa 1:36.033
14 Glock 1:36.066
15 Nakajima 1:36.193
Q1
16 Bourdais 1:36.906
17 Piquet 1:36.908
18 Kubica 1:36.966
19 Sutil 1:37.669
20 Fisichella 1:37.672
Q3
1 Vettel 1:36.184
2 Alonso 1:36.381
3 Webber 1:36.466
4 Barrichello 1:35.493
5 Button 1:36.532
6 Trulli 1:36.835
7 Rosberg 1:37.397
8 Räikkönen 1:38.089
9 Hamilton 1:38.595
10 Buemi 1:39.321
Q2
11 Heidfeld 1:35.975
12 Kovalainen 1:36.032
13 Massa 1:36.033
14 Glock 1:36.066
15 Nakajima 1:36.193
Q1
16 Bourdais 1:36.906
17 Piquet 1:36.908
18 Kubica 1:36.966
19 Sutil 1:37.669
20 Fisichella 1:37.672
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Caterpillars was the lightest of the bunch:
1 - Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull = 644.0kg
2 - Fernando Alonso / Renault = 637.0kg
3 - Mark Webber / Red Bull = 646.5kg
4 - Rubens Barichello / Brawn = 661.0kg
5 - Jenson Button / Brawn = 659.0kg
6 - Jarno Trulli / Toyota = 664.5kg
7 - Nico Rosberg / Williams = 650.5kg
8 - Kimi Räikkönen / Ferrari = 673.5kg
9 - Lewis Hamilton / McLaren = 679.0kg
10 - Sébastien Buemi / Toro Rosso = 673.0kg
11 - Nick Heidfeld / BMW = 679.0kg
12 - Heikki Kovalainen / McLaren = 697.0kg
13 - Felipe Massa / Ferrari = 690.0kg
14 - Kazuki Nakajima / Williams = 682.7kg
15 - Sébastien Bourdais / Toro Rosso = 690.0kg
16 - Nelson Piquet / Renault = 697.9kg
17 - Robert Kubica / BMW = 659.0kg
18 - Adrian Sutil / Force India = 648.0kg
19 - Timo Glock / Toyota = 652.0kg
20 - Giancarlo Fisichella / Force India = 679.5kg
Re: Fingers crossed
Vettel's sweating reliability as well. Could play a part. But hat's off to him for doing just one perfect laps in each session when he had too.
And Alonzo !!! my god, did he ever pull one out
when it counted when he was road kill earlier in the weekend. He was using KERS very well last race, but it's off this weekend, when this is supposed to be a good track for it, no? Looks like they found some speed parts for Fred but not Peaky. Nevertheless, he's just lost once again.
The good news for the Killer B's is that they're carrying a bunch more fuel than the top 3. :smile:
Vettel's sweating reliability as well. Could play a part. But hat's off to him for doing just one perfect laps in each session when he had too.
And Alonzo !!! my god, did he ever pull one out
when it counted when he was road kill earlier in the weekend. He was using KERS very well last race, but it's off this weekend, when this is supposed to be a good track for it, no? Looks like they found some speed parts for Fred but not Peaky. Nevertheless, he's just lost once again. The good news for the Killer B's is that they're carrying a bunch more fuel than the top 3. :smile:
Alonso got an incredible amount out of the car... just look at Piquet. I think Piquet doesn't offer much than a name, frankly.
I had a feeling the reason BGP wasn't up top was because they were carrying more fuel... glad to see that was the case. Also, like I said earlier, the Red Bulls are going to be extremely tough once they get the upgraded diffuser seeing as how quick they are now.
I think it is going to be a race between BGP, the Red Bulls, and perhaps Hammy and Trulli thrown in there. The tire situation will be interesting, as always, with the super softs expected to degrade so quickly. Taking chance/strategy out of the equation, I still think it is BGP's race to lose.
I had a feeling the reason BGP wasn't up top was because they were carrying more fuel... glad to see that was the case. Also, like I said earlier, the Red Bulls are going to be extremely tough once they get the upgraded diffuser seeing as how quick they are now.
I think it is going to be a race between BGP, the Red Bulls, and perhaps Hammy and Trulli thrown in there. The tire situation will be interesting, as always, with the super softs expected to degrade so quickly. Taking chance/strategy out of the equation, I still think it is BGP's race to lose.
I'm wondering if the people who are light on fuel will run the super-softs in the opening stint to get them out of the way and give them a good lead to begin with. I thought that might be a good strategy...run light fuel to get better qualifying position, then soft tires to get out in front fast. I guess we will see.
Re: Fingers crossed
That's what I was hoping for too when I saw the results for Qual. Glad to see that is the case. The Killer Bees have about 5 more laps of fuel than the Red Bulls, and about 8 more laps of fuel than Alonso's Renault. Lets hope for a Brawn victory again!
Vettel's sweating reliability as well. Could play a part. But hat's off to him for doing just one perfect laps in each session when he had too.
And Alonzo !!! my god, did he ever pull one out
The good news for the Killer B's is that they're carrying a bunch more fuel than the top 3. :smile:
That's what I was hoping for too when I saw the results for Qual. Glad to see that is the case. The Killer Bees have about 5 more laps of fuel than the Red Bulls, and about 8 more laps of fuel than Alonso's Renault. Lets hope for a Brawn victory again!
Re: when to use soft tires
Check out the weather: 30% increasing to 60% rain
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin...0000.1.58362&hourly=1&yday=108&weekday=Sunday
The tire rule goes out the window when rains are used, right? If so, even though Brawn is pretty good with soft tires, maybe Ross' strategy is to bank on rain, go for minimal stops and possibly avoid the softs entirely.
Just a thought.
Check out the weather: 30% increasing to 60% rain
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin...0000.1.58362&hourly=1&yday=108&weekday=Sunday
The tire rule goes out the window when rains are used, right? If so, even though Brawn is pretty good with soft tires, maybe Ross' strategy is to bank on rain, go for minimal stops and possibly avoid the softs entirely.
Just a thought.
Re: when to use soft tires
I think everyone would like to avoid the soft tires if they can. Rain would prove to be interesting...everyone knows Hamilton loves the rain.
I think everyone would like to avoid the soft tires if they can. Rain would prove to be interesting...everyone knows Hamilton loves the rain.
It was a wet race!!!
Not as wet as Malaysia, but wet.
Miner
Not as wet as Malaysia, but wet.
Miner
Good race this morning... not an especially nail biting finish but an interesting race overall. Red Bull appears dominant in the wet... again, wondering how much the revised diffuser will upgrade their performance when they get it as they've been very strong without it. I think they'll be the main compeition to Brawn for the constructors.
Hamilton was pressing hard the whole race and when it worked out he was moving around people pretty impressively, unfortunately it also contributed to a number of spins which put him back. A decent but not great race for him. The new McLaren aero package does seem to be a significant improvement from the first two races.
Amazing race for Vettel... I can't remember him having one incident all race and most every other driver did. Incrediby tough race for the drivers and really showcases their incredbile car control abilty. Another thing that really shows in the wet is how courageous these guys are, driving at the limit, not being able to see with all of the spray, takes a lot of balls to do that. Too bad about Sutil, would have been nice to see those guys get a point or two for all of their effort but the car just went out from under him in a flash.
Another really poor effort from Piquet, I can't see him lasting after this season is over. Same thing with Nakajima.
Hamilton was pressing hard the whole race and when it worked out he was moving around people pretty impressively, unfortunately it also contributed to a number of spins which put him back. A decent but not great race for him. The new McLaren aero package does seem to be a significant improvement from the first two races.
Amazing race for Vettel... I can't remember him having one incident all race and most every other driver did. Incrediby tough race for the drivers and really showcases their incredbile car control abilty. Another thing that really shows in the wet is how courageous these guys are, driving at the limit, not being able to see with all of the spray, takes a lot of balls to do that. Too bad about Sutil, would have been nice to see those guys get a point or two for all of their effort but the car just went out from under him in a flash.
Another really poor effort from Piquet, I can't see him lasting after this season is over. Same thing with Nakajima.
Re: Aero package in total
If the time, cost and difficulty of redesigning the diffuser is even half true, I'd think Newey will not be distracted much with the diffuser, but will continue to develop his entire package. That line of thought is partially based on and consistent with most opinions that Brawn's design is superior for a lot more reasons than the diffuser.
I'm not sure what the Killer's B's problems were today, but Jens alluded to some difficulties with the car. He couldn't get enough heat in the tires, was that really it? That would be consistent with their cars being so easy on the super softs.
Anyway, RBR was untouchable today. Back in the dry and heat next week, we'll be looking much better.
I agree because the new rules/design is the name of the game moreso than driver talent right now. So, it'll be a Newey design vs Brawn design contest for the immediate future if not the entire season.
I think that any diffuser design starting from scratch now will be too little, too late. The team engineers have all said that the diffusers have to be integrated into the overall design of the car. You probably saw Peter's interview? The Renault guy told Peter it would be 6-9 months to get it completely to the level of sophistication enjoyed by the current "Diffuser 3" teams. And Thiessan said he could not quantify the advantage that those teams have, suggesting to me that he's implying there's lots more to the puzzle than just the one part.
If the time, cost and difficulty of redesigning the diffuser is even half true, I'd think Newey will not be distracted much with the diffuser, but will continue to develop his entire package. That line of thought is partially based on and consistent with most opinions that Brawn's design is superior for a lot more reasons than the diffuser.
I'm not sure what the Killer's B's problems were today, but Jens alluded to some difficulties with the car. He couldn't get enough heat in the tires, was that really it? That would be consistent with their cars being so easy on the super softs.
Anyway, RBR was untouchable today. Back in the dry and heat next week, we'll be looking much better.
Great job to Vettel and Redbull...that was the race result that I was looking for. Brawn raced a nice race and that battle between Button and Webber was a lot of fun to watch. And how about that Toyota nose change, I was amazed...great work by the yoda engineers.
Re: Aero package in total
I'm not so sure... McLaren has already put an interim design on the car, and I'm imagining other teams are scrambling to do something as quick as possible. Remember, it might take 6-9 months for a perfect solution, but can they get an improved solution on the car in a couple of weeks? I think that is the way all of the non-diffuser teams will go.
I thought that exact same thing about the super softs and why they couldn't get temp into the tires in wet conditions.
One other nit is I don't like how one of the announcers keeps referring to it as a "trick diffuser", especially now that the FIA has ruled it legal.
I'm not so sure... McLaren has already put an interim design on the car, and I'm imagining other teams are scrambling to do something as quick as possible. Remember, it might take 6-9 months for a perfect solution, but can they get an improved solution on the car in a couple of weeks? I think that is the way all of the non-diffuser teams will go.
I thought that exact same thing about the super softs and why they couldn't get temp into the tires in wet conditions.
One other nit is I don't like how one of the announcers keeps referring to it as a "trick diffuser", especially now that the FIA has ruled it legal.
RBR cars very competitive also for next few races momentary biggest BGP rival.Disappointment Williams,Toyota ,biggest Ferrari and BMW.Nice race.
Re: Aero package in total
I agree. I think the comments from the "Renault guy" and from Thiessan that 92 white 0650 alluded to are a bit of a smokescreen. Frankly, there's quite a bit of political jockeying going on right now, and for the teams with poor performance, they can save face by accusing the "diffuser 3" teams of being cheats.
RBR performance which is 100% in compliance with the "spirit of the rules" is enough to show that Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW just missed the boat. Now that the diffusers are declared legal, they'll wip something out as McLaren has. And while that may not provide a perfectly optimized design, they'll see some added downforce with the additional benefit of "plausible" deniability if they still can't find performance. Perfect smokescreen.
All that said, I hope the regs get tightened up next year as I'd rather not see our newfound success overshadowed by questions of legality, last weeks ruling not withstanding. Folks who see it as "trick" will continue to use the controversy as a means to disrespect what is clearly a solid all around car.
Totally! Piquet is the biggest whiner and consistently poor performer on the grid. I was shocked to see him keep his drive this year. As it were, seems like he almost lost it to Button when it seemed his drive was in jeopardy, at least that is what one would assume based on the bickering between he and Flav.
I agree. I think the comments from the "Renault guy" and from Thiessan that 92 white 0650 alluded to are a bit of a smokescreen. Frankly, there's quite a bit of political jockeying going on right now, and for the teams with poor performance, they can save face by accusing the "diffuser 3" teams of being cheats.
RBR performance which is 100% in compliance with the "spirit of the rules" is enough to show that Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW just missed the boat. Now that the diffusers are declared legal, they'll wip something out as McLaren has. And while that may not provide a perfectly optimized design, they'll see some added downforce with the additional benefit of "plausible" deniability if they still can't find performance. Perfect smokescreen.
All that said, I hope the regs get tightened up next year as I'd rather not see our newfound success overshadowed by questions of legality, last weeks ruling not withstanding. Folks who see it as "trick" will continue to use the controversy as a means to disrespect what is clearly a solid all around car.
Totally! Piquet is the biggest whiner and consistently poor performer on the grid. I was shocked to see him keep his drive this year. As it were, seems like he almost lost it to Button when it seemed his drive was in jeopardy, at least that is what one would assume based on the bickering between he and Flav.
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Red Bull choose the right tactics. The time differences of lighter to heavier are said to be bigger in the wet than in the dry. Starting behind the SC saves fuel and they were lucky that it lasted 6 laps before the actual race. Of course, all other teams know that too but it was simply luck that it lasted 6 laps. I strongly believe that Red Bull was on a 3 stop strategy with the option to reduce it to 2 stops which they finally did as they saw that Brawn was not able to follow in a way that's dangerous for them. Brawn's tactic was ok but Red Bulls was much better. In these circumstances Brawn obviously decided to save the CS points. That's an intelligent decision. Of course, for the spectators it's boring/not understandable having to see Brawn not fighting but they're not Nigel Mansell-like. Even Ayrton Senna said in an interview that doing the right thing at the right time is the most important thing in racing. Barricello's fastest lap of the race proved that they could drive fast.
Not to undervalue Red Bull, Vettel was brilliant in the wet. Hamilton was very impressive fighting/overtaking with a very heavy car.
Of course, that's only my sofa-commentary. :tongue:
I miss AS in the wet conditions.
Not to undervalue Red Bull, Vettel was brilliant in the wet. Hamilton was very impressive fighting/overtaking with a very heavy car.
Of course, that's only my sofa-commentary. :tongue:
I miss AS in the wet conditions.
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I think that's a good indication that the BGPs were, indeed, having issues with getting heat in the tires. That fastest lap happened immediately after RB's pit stop when the tires were pre-heated.
Button is definitely establishing himself as a better driver this season. It's a wonder what kind of confidence these guys get once they win a few races. I thought it was an ok race. Kinda tired of the rain races. Don't think we'll have that in Bahrain.
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I say that BGP cars are still fastest on grid but don't forget that RBR and Vetell was first on grid with only 3 laps done(wasn't wet) in 3 session's for pole position.
I could be wrong, but I thought that the commentators were saying the opposite. Plus even after RBR refueled Vettel's car, he was still faster than Button who was nearly out of fuel.
Re: Weight in the wet
Hobbs or Steve wasn't really definitive but alluded to the wet taking away the weight advantage. I think the weight advantage is diminished in the wet because 1) rain introduces more variables that the drivers have to deal with and 2) for the same reason that rain neutralizes power and saves the brakes because being smooth and having "good hands" is more critical than in the dry.
RBR simply had a better car in those conditions mainly due to Brawn's tires not working well.
+1,
Hobbs or Steve wasn't really definitive but alluded to the wet taking away the weight advantage. I think the weight advantage is diminished in the wet because 1) rain introduces more variables that the drivers have to deal with and 2) for the same reason that rain neutralizes power and saves the brakes because being smooth and having "good hands" is more critical than in the dry.
RBR simply had a better car in those conditions mainly due to Brawn's tires not working well.
Interesting tidbit about good ole' Seabass:
Something slightly quirky that came out of the Chinese Grand Prix weekend was the fact that eventual race winner Sebastian Vettel names his cars. This all came about when a photo was released showing a make-shift sticker placed across the bridge of Vettel’s steering wheel. The words read ‘Kate’s Dirty Sister’ and was only seen on Vettel’s Red Bull. A few questions buzzed around the Internet and an answer didn’t come my way until Martin Brundle started his usual grid walk and managed to catch Sebastian slightly off-guard…
According to a rather embarrassed Sebastian on the Shanghai grid, the young German likes to name his cars. Vettel said to Martin Brundle and David Coulthard that he treats ladies well and looks after them, therefore he names his cars after ladies because he likes to treat his cars in the same way.
Vettel said that the car he used in Australia was named Kate, but after his incident with Kubica, the chassis was trashed and he was given a new one. Due to updates being made to the RB5, his Malaysian and Chinese chassis was faster and more aggressive, so he and the team decided to call it Kate’s Dirty Sister.
http://blogf1.co.uk/2009/04/19/vettel-i-name-thee-kates-dirty-sister/
Something slightly quirky that came out of the Chinese Grand Prix weekend was the fact that eventual race winner Sebastian Vettel names his cars. This all came about when a photo was released showing a make-shift sticker placed across the bridge of Vettel’s steering wheel. The words read ‘Kate’s Dirty Sister’ and was only seen on Vettel’s Red Bull. A few questions buzzed around the Internet and an answer didn’t come my way until Martin Brundle started his usual grid walk and managed to catch Sebastian slightly off-guard…
According to a rather embarrassed Sebastian on the Shanghai grid, the young German likes to name his cars. Vettel said to Martin Brundle and David Coulthard that he treats ladies well and looks after them, therefore he names his cars after ladies because he likes to treat his cars in the same way.
Vettel said that the car he used in Australia was named Kate, but after his incident with Kubica, the chassis was trashed and he was given a new one. Due to updates being made to the RB5, his Malaysian and Chinese chassis was faster and more aggressive, so he and the team decided to call it Kate’s Dirty Sister.
http://blogf1.co.uk/2009/04/19/vettel-i-name-thee-kates-dirty-sister/
Re: That's it; Brawn should protest
1. Vettel loving the rain
2. Newey's design being good
Just as I thought, diffuser's ain't squat !! :wink:
And we thought that it was just a matter of
1. Vettel loving the rain
2. Newey's design being good
Just as I thought, diffuser's ain't squat !! :wink:
Re: Caption this
This was caption contest on another website, but thought you guys might want a shot at it.
"It's been like this for over 4 hours, think I should call a doctor?" :tongue:
This was caption contest on another website, but thought you guys might want a shot at it.
"It's been like this for over 4 hours, think I should call a doctor?" :tongue:
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