Feeler : LED Tail Lights

[juejaimon]

I've been a NSX owner for many years now and throughout my ownership, i've been searching for updated tail lights for my nsx. To date, the only option i've found is to either pay close to $2k for a conversion or to spend many hours on a DIY to try and construct my own. I was very close to the point to construct my own using superflux leds, radio shack boards, voltage regulators, customized heat sinks, resistors, etc. when got in touch with an old college friend who does manufacturing for a living. In addition, he has current contracts with other vendors that supply LED guts that goes in his tail light housings for car manufacturers.

After many discussions with him and long story short, i have all the documentation in place to start tooling for a OEM fitment tail lights that houses LED lights for our NSX. It will be a plug and play unit with your existing connections. This will be a stand-alone unit that you remove your exisiting tail lights for safe keeping and pop these tail lights in.

Since this endeavor would mean I would have to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in this project to start, I'm hoping that I can get some feedback from you all to see if this is:

1) A worthwhile project
2) Enough demand for this part
3) 1991-2001 design or 2002-2005 design
4) LED placement Design
5) How much would one expect to pay for these new right and left tail lights.

Should anyone feel that this is a worthless effort, don't hesitate to say so as I (and my wife :redface value your thoughts in consideration of this project.

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[Juice]

Hundreds of thousands of dollars.......nuf said.

 

[NSX-Nate]

The only reason I haven't done the other conversion offered is like you said, the $2000+ price tag. If it ends up costing close to that much, even though it's a whole new set of tail lights, I won't do it. I spent lots of money on my cars, but I'm not about to spend thousands on tail lights.

If this is going to cost hundreds of thousands simply to start it probably isn't worth it. You would either need to sell hundreds of units or charge very high prices to recover your cost. In the off chance you could sell these at $1000 or less I would buy a set.

That's my 2 cents,
Nate

 

[MJK]

I suspect the plastic injection molds are what are going to set you back the most amount of $$$. Even 'soft tooling' isn't cheap.

If you can re-use the OEM plastic and retrofit just an electronics package that COULD be reasonable, but then you get into the hassle of having to break them open on a mass scale. Personally, I think the most reasonable way to handle this is for someone to offer an electronics 'upgrade kit' where the user must break open his own tail lights. I'd be willing to do this and would pay up to $750 or so for a (kit) assuming I liked the design of it. I'd pay more if my time and a sacrificial tail light set were not required.

As for my design preference, I would take JDM > 91-01 > 02+.

If it looks ricey, I am out. RED PLASTIC to keep the OEM flow.

I chopped this a while ago for an abandoned DIY attempt. Maybe it is useful?

(click to enlarge)

 

[Fireballs_92nsx]

My opinion...
Do you have your own set to make yourself proficient and quick?
Do you have a background in electronics/sodering/led technology?
Do you have the time it would take to do each set?
Would you purchase say (10) sets of taillights, and do them all already, and charge a core charge?
Do you see yourself seeing the project through?
Do you have the money to front any loss?

 

[Briank]

#2 not enough demand, too few cars and way less that what this upgrade.

 

[whatisreal7]

I am hoping he means hundreds OR thousands of dollars, not hundreds OF thousands. If it is "OF", then the business model is a no brainer..no go.

 

[swerve2007]

plastic injection molds cost tens of thousands each so yes, if he wants to produce a plug-in replacement set, the tooling will be very expensive.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

#2 not enough demand, too few cars and way less that what this upgrade.

agreed.

 

[Juice]

To set a bench mark, does everyone agree that $1000 - $1200 is a logical selling point for said product?

If so, we can see that the general need to make this product equitable would be somewhere around 100 sets needing to be sold before the money starts to make sense.

If a "DIY kit" were offered, it would make sense to cost in the neighborhood of $600-$700. LEDs still ain't cheap! But I would assume that some form of an injection molded backerboard would still be needed. Otherwise, the whole unit would likely never seal right.

And all of this for purely cosmetic reasons on a car that is getting long in the tooth. Realistically, as much as I would love to do this mod, it would only serve to decrease the value of the car.

Somebody on here needs the inside track at China to make this thing happen, and then to be/have a good designer on top of that. Good luck.

 

[Deltron Zero]

So frustrating when I recently paid less than $300 for a set of LED tails for the M3.

 

[NSX R-GT]

i asked company in Japan who made aftermarket LED lights if they could make a set for the NSX, but they told me that a mold and R&D for a set of LED taillight will cost about US$60000, and they asked how many can i order a year, and if its less then 10000 sets per year his company won't even bother! eek:

but i just sent a set of 02+ taillight to them! One of the manager there promise me he will make a set for me, but i will have to wait for him to test it on his NSX in Japan! hopefully i will get it back in a month!

 

[nsxhk]

I'm game! :wink:

 

[LJSB]

they asked how many can i order a year, and if its less then 10000 sets per year his company won't even bother! eek:

I think that 10,000 is very close to the number of about how many NSX's are still on the road in the entire USA.

 

[BluryNSX]

To set a bench mark, does everyone agree that $1000 - $1200 is a logical selling point for said product?


If a "DIY kit" were offered, it would make sense to cost in the neighborhood of $600-$700. LEDs still ain't cheap!

I think these are very reasonable price points. I too want the LED lights and will definately want a set at those price points... my thing is being not supercharged yet I can't justify 2k on tail lights when mine work fine, but at the prices listed above I could definately move that mod toward the front of the list as I think it greatly enhances the look of our taillights.

I really think a DIY project with detailed noted would get the most response

So frustrating when I recently paid less than $300 for a set of LED tails for the M3.

one of the unfortunate issues with owning a smaller production vehicle.

 

[martin]

To set a bench mark, does everyone agree that $1000 - $1200 is a logical selling point for said product?

Hi

I'm hip on that price. We need to get those chinese guys going and have them make it to a reasonable price.

I have HID's in foglights, low beam and highbeam. Led's in the parkinglights. So I would like to have some led's at the back.

Regards

 

[whatisreal7]

Let's assume price is $1200 with net margins of 30 points...that's $360 profit. If you invest $100K to do this, just to BREAK EVEN you'll need to sell 278 sets. If you sell two sets every three days, you'll break even in one year. But the rest is profit when you sell more =)

I hope I am not discouraging you to do this, as I really want a set :biggrin:

 

[randomharmony]

Let's assume price is $1200 with net margins of 30 points...that's $360 profit. If you invest $100K to do this, just to BREAK EVEN you'll need to sell 278 sets. If you sell two sets every three days, you'll break even in one year. But the rest is profit when you sell more =)

I hope I am not discouraging you to do this, as I really want a set :biggrin:

I don't think the up front cost is $100k, depending on the level of detail (ie, complete/partial/DYI replacment), a third to half of it is more likely the case.

 

[UnhuZ]

After i saw the new Audi A6 avant taillights, i knew i wanted something similar for my NSX...i'll do them myself...

i've been thinking about the whole work....LEDs...PCBs....lenses....layout... everything....

now i'm moving out to a new house...once everything settles, i'll start the project planning... i think in about a month... since the car will be out of the streets to do the R conversion :wink:

my biggest dilema is if i'll use the Euro/JDM 91-01 or the 02+ ones...
the old ones give me the possibility to make whatever layout i like, and the 02+ ones make me use the orange round spots for turn signal which limits my drawing of the surroundings....

let's see what i'll figure out of all this....

in everycase, i'll make a thread for the project, reporting everything... problems.... brakethroughs....:wink:

 

[LS1toNSX]

I brought up the idea a while back, the numbers I got were close to $90,000 investment to get this thing rolling with a company in hong kong.

Regardless if anyone has the inside track to get these things made, i would be game for buying a set (as long as the design is clean). I know the stock NSX tails date the car and some LED's would bring it into the 21st century.

 

[DRIFTER]

Worth while yes we need a good option to up grade the taillights. You wont make a a lot unless you find an inexpensive solution to what we already have what if you just made the back part of the taillight and we switched over our red lens?

 

[UnhuZ]

I just realized i hijacked the OP thread.... i'm very sorry for that... what i said came in line with me thinking that to make such a product it will always be expensive as a business unless is somewhat custom made like DIY project...

once again, sorry for my mistake.

Thanks,
Nuno

 

[mickeylex]

Steve,
If you are making lights just for the NSX, the business model will not get into the black in your lifetime. Spend the money on the kid and the wife. :smile:

 

[MJK]

If you are making lights just for the NSX, the business model will not get into the black in your lifetime. Spend the money on the kid and the wife. :smile:

The way I see it, the upfront costs are what will kill this. This is almost entirely due to the plastic tooling costs (I would guess 30-50k min).

If it is just circuit board screens and machine setup I think you could probably get the startup costs under $10k. The advantage of the NSX tail light design is that is would seem to accommodate a (series of) flat boards internally relatively easily. Even with a couple flex tails, PWMs, a shitload of SMT LEDs and some connectors I think you could get it to $50 ea in material costs. Total investment for a 100pc run would seem to be about $15k + design time. A $20k budget I think gives you plenty of padding. So then it is just a pricing exercise.

At $500, your breakeven is only 40 units. If you sell all 100 you just made $30k in profit. I bet you could pull it off in well under 6 mo working on it as a 'basement project'. 150% return in 6 mo is not bad.

My numbers are all estimates, of course. But, I have some applicable experience.

Bottom line: Its not going to pay for your oceanside villa (hence you'll never see this happen unless it is from an 'enthusiast' or niche company like SoS), but profit potential is there. It is only attractive if this is something you are interested in and can treat it as a 'side project' you can get paid reasonably well for.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

my thing is being not supercharged yet I can't justify 2k on tail lights when mine work fine,

I understand your logic behind not getting the tail lights if yours work fine but you can apply that same logic to getting a s/c. Does your engine work just fine? Does it get the car up to the speed limit and take you where you need to go just fine? Well then, why buy the s/c?:tongue: