First track event coming up - few brake questions!

[Jason Weaver]

Hello all, After over a year of NSX ownership and a fair amount of drag racing, I am a few weeks away from my first track event at VIR. Needless to say I am VERY excited. I know this has been highly debated on the forums before (I have read the faq as well) but I wanted to get some more real world opinions from you guys who have been here before. With the long straightaways of VIR's full course (I went to a PCA meet last weekend to watch a friend drive = why I'm so hooked) I am scared of any braking problems that may occur as well as the "normal" light brake shudder of the early OEM rotors coming down from any substantial speed. From all I have read I am considering the following options : Powerslot rotors for the front only. (the rears are in excellent shape and do only like what 20% of the braking?)Dali street/strip pads all the way around and Motul 600 fluid. Shields removed with Dali reflectors (why not for 45 bucks). This seems to me to be the most cost effective setup for my current needs. I'm sure with this bieng my first time at the track I will not be going fast enough to really make a differnce, but honestly guys I would rather be safe than sorry. So my questions are :

Does this sound like a reasonable cost effective/ improvement over OEM setup? Would there be any problem running a slotted rotor on the front w/an OEM rotor on the rear? Will the powerslot rotors take care of the shudder coming down from speeds well over 100mph? (considering that the rear oem rotor is in good shape)

Again thanks guys for your opinions any info will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for being so long winded.

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Jason

 

[DanO]

Good luck at your track event! Hope you have a BLAST!

We're having a brake discussion on the tech forum at www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000181.html

It's a pretty good discussion.

I think the brake upgrades you are planning on doing make perfect sense.

Have fun!

DanO

 

[nsxtasy]

I agree with DanO.

Does this sound like a reasonable cost effective/ improvement over OEM setup?

Yes.

Would there be any problem running a slotted rotor on the front w/an OEM rotor on the rear?

Nothing that would be attributable to the difference between the rotors.

Will the powerslot rotors take care of the shudder coming down from speeds well over 100mph? (considering that the rear oem rotor is in good shape)

Shudder doesn't appear instantly. If it does develop, it will only do so after a number of track events - 4, 8, 12 - however many it takes to develop, based on your driving style and experience.

Have fun and be safe!

 

[Vytas]

I participated in a track event at Laguna Seca last Sunday. A week before, I had installed new Powerslot rotors (from RM Racing) all around with new OEM brake pads. I also don't sport the dust shields and use the Dali air deflectors at their lowest setting (raise them up for street use to not bend them). I had no issues with my brakes at all. I braked from 110 to 40 many times each lap for about a half hour session. I like my brakes!

One thing is to properly break in the new rotors. I read a brake analysis from Oscar Jackson of Jackson Racing and this is what he recommends:

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New rotors should be bedded in using old pads and vise versa. I realize this isn't always possible, however, the following are some procedures to follow. Never hold the brake on while throttling the car. This builds up too much heat and can damage the rotor and overheat the pads. The best way to bed in a set of new rotors and pads is to use them gently for about a week. This will bring small amounts of even heat to the rotor and allow it to cool down evenly. After a week of careful driving, you can start doing more spirited stops.
After bringing the car up to 60 to 70 mph, apply the brakes in a light/ medium effort, (35%) and slow the car to 20 mph. Repeat this procedure three more times. Continue driving for 10 minutes without using the brakes at all if possible. This will allow time for the rotors and pads to cool. Repeat this procedure with a medium effort, (50%) and allow 10 minutes of driving to cool the pads and rotors. Do it again with a medium-hard effort (75%), then, rather than driving, park the car and allow the brakes to cool overnight or through the day at ambient temperature.
The following day, repeat the first two of the procedures above, then do at least five aggressive stops to ensure that the rotors are up to full operating temperature. Be careful not to lock up the brakes. Continue driving the car without using the brakes, if possible. Let the brakes cool overnight. They should now be ready for full-time use.
Even properly bedded in rotors need to be warmed up prior to each time they're used for spirited driving or racing, as a rotor can go from an outside temp of 80 degrees F, to more than 1000 degrees F, in less than 3 seconds under these types of driving conditions. If you start to notice a vibration after aggressive stops, the rotors were likely heated to quickly. So if your going to participate in a track day or other high performance driving, give your brakes a few laps to warm up.
Remember, your driving habits control the wear and tear on your cars entire brake system, not just the rotor and pad material.

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I bed in my rotors following the above procedures. I'm sure I'll get great life from them.

Vytas

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"The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred." - Soichiro Honda

 

[NSXTC]

All you need to know:

http://www.nsxhelp.com/brakeupg/index.html

 

[nsxtasy]

That writeup has some interesting information... but I think Jason was also correct when he said, "I'm sure with this bieng my first time at the track I will not be going fast enough to really make a differnce"

Particularly for someone just starting out, there's nothing wrong with a gradual approach, trying out one or two improvements at a time, and only as the need arises.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 15 November 2001).]

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by Vytas:

One thing is to properly break in the new rotors. I read a brake analysis from Oscar Jackson of Jackson Racing and this is what he recommends:

The only thing that I would add to this is not to set the parking brake when you leave the car sitting to cool down. I might be off base but I think that having the parking brake on can contribute to warping the rotor.



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Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

 

[nsxtasy]

I might be off base but I think that having the parking brake on can contribute to warping the rotor.

The parking brake can only affect the rear rotors. All of the shudder problems I've had have only involved the front rotors.

It's still a good idea not to use the parking brake at the track, though. No sense in allowing the possibility of warping in the rear.

 

[Biaggi]

Jason,
I know one thing.. is that you will definitely fall in love with the VIR racetrack. I was up there this past July on the North course for a 2 day motorcycle track class taught by Reggie Pridmore and had the time of my life! I'm sure being in the NSX will be fun to unwind and see what this machine is capable of on that smoothe & technical track. I wouldn't worry too much about your OEM brakes because Honda's OEM products are put through the R&D phase and can perform well under harsh loads, i.e. racing.... That's all I use on my bike is OEM brake pads/rotors- but I did add SS brake lines for improvement in pressure feedback.
Have fun and watch out for that uphill right hand turn after crossing under the bridge (I think it's turn #7 on the North Course).. I heard a lot of cars spin out of that turn into the runoff because of the weight transfer from the cambered uphill right hander to the left turn plateau section....
Otherwise, enjoy yourself and have FUN!

BTW, when is this event anyway? and who's sponsoring it?


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Biaggi
92 Red NSX #483

 

[justin hall]

Originally posted by lemansnsx:
The only thing that I would add to this is not to set the parking brake when you leave the car sitting to cool down. I might be off base but I think that having the parking brake on can contribute to warping the rotor.

andrew, this is excellent advice. if you set the parking brake with a hot rotor, it will warp. also keep in mind brakes when you are pitting. if you are dropping off an instructor or the pit road is sloped like at Laguna, you can warp a hot rotor just by using your brakes for an extended period of time w/o moving.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by justin hall:
andrew, this is excellent advice. if you set the parking brake with a hot rotor, it will warp. also keep in mind brakes when you are pitting. if you are dropping off an instructor or the pit road is sloped like at Laguna, you can warp a hot rotor just by using your brakes for an extended period of time w/o moving.

Most people don't stop to think about the pads acting like a heat sink sucking the heat out of the rotor on that one section - not to mention what the heat soak from the rotor through the pads into the caliper does to the seals!
Good thing Ken pointed out that it only affects the rears though. I missed that!

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Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

 

[Ponyboy]

The rear rotor warpage from the parking brake has happened to a couple of guys at the local track (Hallett) so I learned from them and bought some wheel chocks from Sears.