sorry but your info is wrong...if a cop "no shows" it is dismissed. However, most departments around here are penalizing cops for NOT showing so you won't get hardly any no shows
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Grr, ticket
- Thread starter Aiken Drum
- Start date
sorry but your info is wrong...if a cop "no shows" it is dismissed. However, most departments around here are penalizing cops for NOT showing so you won't get hardly any no shows
nsxtasy said:
Totally wrong!!! In Washington State (which is what the orignal poster was asking about) an attorney may appear on your behalf for cases punishable by fine, which applies to the majority of traffic tickets.
CrRLJ 3.4 states:
In prosecutions for offenses punishable by fine only, the court, with the written consent of the defendant, may permit arraignment, plea, trial and imposition of sentence in the defendant's absence.
Reference:
http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.list&group=clj&set=CrRLJ
In practice I have found this to be true. Myself and everyone I know in WA state who have used an attorney to fight a traffic infraction was told by the attorney that their appearance in court was not necessary.
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WOW!!
That is unusually. So an attorney can represent you and you dont even have to be there. You can be out working to pay for the attorney.
gotta say, lot of attorneys ive had--would want to be there to make sure they had the info and to show the court i was serious in my position.
That is unusually. So an attorney can represent you and you dont even have to be there. You can be out working to pay for the attorney.
gotta say, lot of attorneys ive had--would want to be there to make sure they had the info and to show the court i was serious in my position.
nsxtasy said:
Recently in Colorado, a college student was murdered by a man who was posing as a police officer. He had flashing lights, a uniform, everything.
Scary thing is, I don't think he broke any laws by having the uniform and the equipment.
Fortunately, they got the guy, and he is now awaiting trial.
Update
Hmm, I'm wondering how kosher this is.
The Washington state law states that a ticket must be filed with the court within two days of issuance.
Today, I called the phone number on the ticket and got a central phone bank of clerks. I asked if the limit meant literally 48 hours or any time in the next two days. She told me it was from the time issued, so that my 11:05am ticket on Thursday had to be filed by 11:05am Monday (today).
I asked her to see if my ticket had been filed. She entered the number and it came back as not in the system. She then said it takes up to a week to get it into the system right now due to staff cuts. I thanked her, hung up, and drove down to the actual courthouse on the ticket to see if it had been physically filed, if not electronically.
Now, at the courthouse, I asked again, and they basically made the same check the girl on the phone had. It came up as not in the system again, of course. When I asked how I was supposed to know if it was filed on time, they said it would be entered into the system within two weeks. I said I only had two weeks to respond to the ticket. They said, "Oh, don't worry about that." I pointed to the back of the ticket and said, "It says I MUST respond within 15 days." They said, "Don't worry about it, if we don't know about it yet, it can't go to court." I shook my head and left.
Then I went back in and asked how THEY knew what time it arrived. The woman told me they didn't know what time (she emphasized this), only what date, as the tickets received in the mail slot get a date stamp on arrival, and then sit in a basket awaiting entry (for up to two weeks). I mentioned that I had been told on the phone that it had to be filed literally within 48 hours and she said, "No, just within the next two days."
I called the central phone bank again and asked what the real scoop was on the two-day limit, as I had been told two different things. After an amazingly long pause, the girl said, "Well, bascially, in some courts (missing the exact time) will fly, and in some it won't."
On the bright side, I was also told that I was entitled to ask the courthouse to locate the actual physical ticket to determine if it really had been received. I'll do that tomorrow.
What a despressing, ambiguous mess the courts are.
Hmm, I'm wondering how kosher this is.
The Washington state law states that a ticket must be filed with the court within two days of issuance.
Today, I called the phone number on the ticket and got a central phone bank of clerks. I asked if the limit meant literally 48 hours or any time in the next two days. She told me it was from the time issued, so that my 11:05am ticket on Thursday had to be filed by 11:05am Monday (today).
I asked her to see if my ticket had been filed. She entered the number and it came back as not in the system. She then said it takes up to a week to get it into the system right now due to staff cuts. I thanked her, hung up, and drove down to the actual courthouse on the ticket to see if it had been physically filed, if not electronically.
Now, at the courthouse, I asked again, and they basically made the same check the girl on the phone had. It came up as not in the system again, of course. When I asked how I was supposed to know if it was filed on time, they said it would be entered into the system within two weeks. I said I only had two weeks to respond to the ticket. They said, "Oh, don't worry about that." I pointed to the back of the ticket and said, "It says I MUST respond within 15 days." They said, "Don't worry about it, if we don't know about it yet, it can't go to court." I shook my head and left.
Then I went back in and asked how THEY knew what time it arrived. The woman told me they didn't know what time (she emphasized this), only what date, as the tickets received in the mail slot get a date stamp on arrival, and then sit in a basket awaiting entry (for up to two weeks). I mentioned that I had been told on the phone that it had to be filed literally within 48 hours and she said, "No, just within the next two days."
I called the central phone bank again and asked what the real scoop was on the two-day limit, as I had been told two different things. After an amazingly long pause, the girl said, "Well, bascially, in some courts (missing the exact time) will fly, and in some it won't."
On the bright side, I was also told that I was entitled to ask the courthouse to locate the actual physical ticket to determine if it really had been received. I'll do that tomorrow.
What a despressing, ambiguous mess the courts are.
LrdVader said:
I'm quite sure that flashing lights in a car are illegal in all 50 states. As is impersonating a law enforcement officer (which would include a non-officer wearing an officer's uniform).
NSXTasy...that law is very very bendable. I mean, if the lights are not blue and red, then it's not illegal. So flashing strobes in the head lights of a crown vic and he may not be guilty.
As goes the uniform: unless it specifically identifies a police agency/department, then I don't believe that is illegal either. I may be wrong though....
As goes the uniform: unless it specifically identifies a police agency/department, then I don't believe that is illegal either. I may be wrong though....
Brian2by2 said:
Not true.
Brian2by2 said:
Not true.
Flashing lights are illegal, regardless of color.
Brian2by2 said:
A uniform by itself, without a badge or any identification of a police agency/department, isn't illegal. Using that uniform in combination with behavior that implies a law enforcement connection is likely to be considered impersonating an officer, and thus illegal.
This is not directed to anyone in particular, but rather to a trend that exists throughout the thread.
I think that it may be a good idea to refrain from making general statements about what the law 'is' or 'is not'. It makes no sense to argue about legal nuances when you are speaking of two separate jurisdictions. Within a single jurisdiction, which can be as small as a single municipality (i.e. county, city, village, etc.) one can make relatively precise statements, but actual practice varies based on local custom and the multitude of human factors that come into play. There is a great deal of discretion involved, particularly when you are talking about a traffic citation. This is the difference between the law in theory and the law in action. I am hoping that people will listen to this friendly piece of advice before they reply to 'correct' someone else's statement with home-spun advice from across the country.
Further, there is a reason that I don't post to answer detailed mechanical questions. I simply don't have the technical knowledge.
That advice would be well heeded by those who consider themselves to be legal experts without the benefit of a law degree or significant legal experience.
End of Rant.
I think that it may be a good idea to refrain from making general statements about what the law 'is' or 'is not'. It makes no sense to argue about legal nuances when you are speaking of two separate jurisdictions. Within a single jurisdiction, which can be as small as a single municipality (i.e. county, city, village, etc.) one can make relatively precise statements, but actual practice varies based on local custom and the multitude of human factors that come into play. There is a great deal of discretion involved, particularly when you are talking about a traffic citation. This is the difference between the law in theory and the law in action. I am hoping that people will listen to this friendly piece of advice before they reply to 'correct' someone else's statement with home-spun advice from across the country.
Further, there is a reason that I don't post to answer detailed mechanical questions. I simply don't have the technical knowledge.
That advice would be well heeded by those who consider themselves to be legal experts without the benefit of a law degree or significant legal experience.End of Rant.
Road rage is a dangerous thing. I am not saying I do, but a guy I know carries a loaded 40cal GLOCK for just that situation.....of course if it turned out to be something other than a COP.If you did cut him off (even if by accident), I can not blame him a little bit. Haven't we all wished we could pull some of these idiot drivers over and give them a ticket!
I think you would be able to beat the ticket if you wanted to waist the time in court.
I understand your frustration at the situation and the apparent entrapment but at least you left the situation in a beautiful NSX while he/she had to drive their SUV
Good luck and let me know how it turns out
Brian2by2 said:
I dont believe my information is incorrect. I have been informed that while most cases in South Florida are still thrown out if the cop "no shows", it is up the judge and depends on the circumstances (sometimes an officer's absence is unavoidable) as well as the judge. I have not seen it firsthand, but the information came from a friend who has.
Also, in response to other comments, while it may differ in other parts of the country, in South Florida you do not have to appear in court if you have an attorney go on your behalf.
Anything can happen if you are willing to take the time to go in-person. I had a ticket thrown out once because 6 months passed before the trial and right as I was about to make my case (it was a bullshit ticket), the officer told the judge that the ticket was so old he didnt remember any details of it. So she threw it out. I was surprised to say the least.
You're right, however, as argued, it is not considered impersonating a police officer
and as far as the florida "no show" law, I have had it happen to me. The cop no showed, ticket was dismissed. It was later found out by my aunt who is a D.A. that the officer was in fact attending a funeral in another state. Ticket Dismissed. The "no show" may or may not be up to the judge, but based on that reason, I would beg to say the "no show" law is still in effect...not positive thoug, you may still be right.
this post did start with speeding right?
to run strobe lights on a car you need to have it registered as a commercial vehicle such as in construction. its more visible than your four-ways.
When an unmarked police car pulls up and approaches your car. lock your doors and only roll down your windo far enought to hear him/her and to hand over your license. check his ID and once you find trust then roll your window down the rest of the way so not to piss him off and make the situation worse for you.
to run strobe lights on a car you need to have it registered as a commercial vehicle such as in construction. its more visible than your four-ways.
When an unmarked police car pulls up and approaches your car. lock your doors and only roll down your windo far enought to hear him/her and to hand over your license. check his ID and once you find trust then roll your window down the rest of the way so not to piss him off and make the situation worse for you.
Way to dig up the dead!!
My two cents, from personal experience.
Whatever the laws says, the judge has discretion on what will ultimately be done, especially if you don't have a lawyer. In the same area in upstate NY, I've had different outcomes when the cop didn't show up: tickets thrown out, court date rescheduled, and, once, in a smaller town, the judge waited until I was the last one left, then instructed his assistant to call the cop in, who showed up 20 minutes later.
You can show up with the best arguments in the world, if the judge doesn't want you to get out of it, he won't let it happen. If he doesn't really care, he's more likely to let you go.
The beautiful thing about living in Texas, you get many mulligans. You can do Defensive Driving classes once a year for the lesser offenses, and there is always deferred adjudication (sounds similar to court supervision), where you are on probation for a set amount of time, anywhere between 30 days to 6 months, and if you avoid trouble, the ticket disappears. If you get another one though, you end up getting hammered with both.
In response to brahtw8:
You don't have to be a lawyer to know specific laws. I've had a fair amount of speeding tickets, so I educated myself. I wouldn't call it "significant legal experience", but I know my way around enough to comment.
I bet you're probably willing to take mechanical advice from forum members, even if they're not certified mechanics, as long as they are knowledgeable.
In closing, my advice is to NEVER just pay the ticket. Always fight it, the absolute worst thing that can happen is that you end up paying the fine anyway.
George
Whatever the laws says, the judge has discretion on what will ultimately be done, especially if you don't have a lawyer. In the same area in upstate NY, I've had different outcomes when the cop didn't show up: tickets thrown out, court date rescheduled, and, once, in a smaller town, the judge waited until I was the last one left, then instructed his assistant to call the cop in, who showed up 20 minutes later.
You can show up with the best arguments in the world, if the judge doesn't want you to get out of it, he won't let it happen. If he doesn't really care, he's more likely to let you go.
The beautiful thing about living in Texas, you get many mulligans. You can do Defensive Driving classes once a year for the lesser offenses, and there is always deferred adjudication (sounds similar to court supervision), where you are on probation for a set amount of time, anywhere between 30 days to 6 months, and if you avoid trouble, the ticket disappears. If you get another one though, you end up getting hammered with both.
In response to brahtw8:
You don't have to be a lawyer to know specific laws. I've had a fair amount of speeding tickets, so I educated myself. I wouldn't call it "significant legal experience", but I know my way around enough to comment.
I bet you're probably willing to take mechanical advice from forum members, even if they're not certified mechanics, as long as they are knowledgeable.
In closing, my advice is to NEVER just pay the ticket. Always fight it, the absolute worst thing that can happen is that you end up paying the fine anyway.
George
nkb said:
The point of my nearly three month old statement was not that only lawyers should respond to this thread. Rather, it was a response to people from across the country arguing about "the law" on specific issues without recognizing that the law varies from place to place and appropriately qualifying their statements, but rather speaking in absolutes, which are very even within the same jurisdiction. It is of course fine for people to describe their own experiences and offer whatever wisdom they can.
Your post does not offend that sensibility, as you are simply stating your experience in your jurisdiction.
As for the mechanical issue, I may be hesitant to take mechanical advice about an NSX from someone whose only experience is having driven one on a few occasions, which is how I equate the legal knowledge of someone whose primary source of knowledge is that they happened to take a speeding ticket to court a few times.
I do agree that you are almost always better off going to court and fighting the ticket, provided you don't have some other reason from avoiding court, such as an outstanding warrant. I suppose one could envision a situation where it didn't work out, such as the ticket having been written for too lenient an offense and that issue having come to the attention of the prosecutor and/or court only through your appearance, but, barring that unlikely possibility, it is better to show up. I give reductions in points and fines as a matter of course, even to folks from Texas.
Oh, seeing as this got bumped back up, I guess I'll mention that I hired an attorney, wrote an account of what happened, sent him some money, photocopies of various documents and a signature, and was called last Friday with the news that my ticket was dismissed.
Given that I normally drive pretty conservatively, I hope it stays this way.
Given that I normally drive pretty conservatively, I hope it stays this way.
I just had a cop tail gate me on I 85 in an unmarked police car at night , I was trying to keep his car from boxing me in traffic on wet surface. I switched lanes to let him get by me he followed my move and then put on the flashers. I pulled off at the next exit trying to get to a well lit area to exchange info , the cop refused to go across the street to the Shell station instead insisted he write the ticket on the exit ramp. which of course backed up traffic for others.
