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Help - ABS is still leaking after rebuild

Joined
10 January 2013
Messages
28
Location
Sydney
My ABS was leaking at the Modulator valve cap where there are 2 holes on both end (red circle)

ABS valve leak.jpg

I thought O-rings are shot. So I went ahead to rebuild it with new o-ring kits by following this thread http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/162710-ABS-ALB-modulator-rebuild-write-up

It seems good for few days, then it leaks again at exactly the same place.

Scratching my head and wondering what could be the cause ?

It seems Honda design to have those 2 holes for leaking/overflow fluid or something ?

Appreciate for any suggestion.
 
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After reading a little more on the forum. It is obvious that my ALB modulator pistons (not the solenoids) are leaking (at least the two on the outer side). However, I don't hear pump constantly running (as mentioned in other ALB leaking threads). I check and manually activate the pump for 20 seconds. Nothing out of ordinary i.e. no bubbles on the brake fluid in the reservoir.

Does it mean my modulator pistons are bad, or my rebuild seals are not good ?

I want to drive my baby badly, but I am constantly losing significant fluid in the master cylinder Reservoir, even I not driving the car.

Any suggestion where/what I need to do to fix this.
 
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If your master is down on fluid regularly, and it is leaking at the ABS unit, I would say your master and ABS fluid are mixing. (this is should not happen) the two units are separate from a brake fluid standpoint. The ABS just modulates the primary brake fluid.
check the rubber piece at the bottom of each piston. If that is in bad shape, you will need to replace and parts are no longer available. Find another modulator unit.
 
After reading a little more on the forum. It is obvious that my ALB modulator pistons (not the solenoids) are leaking (at least the two on the outer side). However, I don't hear pump constantly running (as mentioned in other ALB leaking threads). I check and manually activate the pump for 20 seconds. Nothing out of ordinary i.e. no bubbles on the brake fluid in the reservoir.

Does it mean my modulator pistons are bad, or my rebuild seals are not good ?

I want to drive my baby badly, but I am constantly losing significant fluid in the master cylinder Reservoir, even I not driving the car.

Any suggestion where/what I need to do to fix this.

The entire assembly and all internal parts are still available from Honda Japan. Pistons are about 60 bucks each. See below. You can click on any number to see the price.

https://www.amayama.com/en/genuine-catalogs/epc/honda-japan/nsx/E-NA1/14736/steering/26331
 
Brake fluid leaks at the top of the pistons and spills out of the air holes. I guess it is one (or many) of modulator piston rings goes bad. Ideally, if I can fix this by replacing orings, but if not, I would take your suggestion to find another unit or probably will buy new piston as suggested by honcho.
 
A little bit of analysis based on how NSX ALB operation described in workshop manual. I strongly believe my piston leak was due to the small o'ring (2 x 6 mm) described in this picture

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/162710-ABS-ALB-modulator-rebuild-write-up/page7

I went ahead and order EPDM 2x6mm from ebay for <$3 (pack of 25).

Will see if it fix this internal valve leak.

BTW, Just in case, this ebay saller pavlina_kyrychova has all, but 24.5x2mm EPDM o'ring for our ALB rebuild.
 
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Greetings! This is my first post, and I come from the Honda Civic world. I have spent a lot of time reading about the NSX ABS system since it operates in mechanically identical fashion as the ABS system in my 1994 Honda Civic EX. I am currently replacing rusted brake lines and have the ABS modulator unit out of the car. I also have a few spare units, and I will be rebuilding the modulators soon with new o-rings and cleaning everything up. When comparing my modulator units, I noticed that some of them have this empty hole in the valve/piston housing like @spacemaster notes in the original post. However, the unit I removed from my car has a rubber plug on both sides where this hole is located. See photos below:

20210820_122548.jpg
20210820_122558.jpg
20210820_122842.jpg

When I removed one of those rubber plugs for the photo, brake fluid squirted out of the housing. I was surprised by this, since from the ABS diagram in the service manual, this "Chamber D" is simply designed as an air chamber and I would assume should be free of fluid. I suspect what @spacemaster found (that the valve/piston assembly has an internal leak via the o-ring) is why brake fluid came out of my "Chamber D" when I removed the plug. It's the only way I can see brake fluid entering "Chamber D", unless there's a design flaw in the system where in certain conditions brake fluid can seep into "Chamber D" with air bubbles or something. I'm not sure, but I tend to lean toward the valve/piston leaking. Maybe they're even designed to leak a little I don't know, but I would assume not since that would affect the hydraulic pressure created by the system.

So what about the rubber plugs? My original unit (pictured) had both plugs. One of my spares was missing one, and one of my spares was missing both. It seems like from the factory these came sealed up with the plugs, but perhaps under severe ABS modulation there's enough pressure sent into "Chamber D" to blow the rubber plug out? The one I removed did not appear degraded or cracked in any manner, so I presume they don't fail due to integrity but rather must be expelled from extreme pressure. But this does bring up the point of contamination entering "Chamber D" via this "breather hole" (for lack of a better term). Dirt, dust, debris, and water can all penetrate "Chamber D" if the rubber plug is gone.

It remains a mystery to me whether the plugs are just from the factory and are assumed to be expelled or whether they are designed to remain in place. I had to use a pick to remove it, and there's an obvious shoulder on the plug to help it seat, so it seems like it's designed to remain seated in the hole. I am surprised more folks who have opened their unit to replace O-rings have not discovered more contamination in "Chamber D", especially if their plugs were gone. Perhaps the placement of the NSX unit (high in the front bay of the car) is more favorable than where the Honda Civic is placed (low in the passenger firewall of the engine bay). I plan to open one up that was missing a rubber plug, and I suspect I will discover some form of contamination but perhaps not.

@spacemaster- did replacing the 2mmx6mm o-rings in the valve/piston assembly solve your brake fluid leaking problem into "Chamber D"? It also seems to me that if this O-ring does go bad and the plugs are gone, brake fluid could leak out onto the modulator unit itself. This makes it look like the typical "solenoid leakage reservoir overflow problem" but perhaps some leaks have been due to this problem as well.
 
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How do you guys disarm/ dismount the ABS pistons to replace the internal O rings?
Ive disarmed my 1994 Civic, im from Argentina so it’s really hard to get good parts here, imported a ABS O rings set from a NSX repair, I think Nsx and CIVIC 94/95 ABS work kinda the same, changed the O rings but it’s leaking from the small rubber thing mentioned previously as CHAMBER D, I’m pretty sure it’s internal leak from the pistons, THE NSX brought O rings that said UPPER SELENOID AND LOWER SELENOID, do they mean selenoid as the 4 pistons? this is probably the 5th or 7th time I’ve taken out the Abs, I’ll give this a last try and if it doesn’t work I’ll just delete it because it leaks a lot, I even bought another one to replace it and was worse… Mines in really good shape tbh, I’ll try to post photos, Really need help getting to know where and what’s a selenoid in the ABS or how to remove the pistons if that’s the “selenoid”!
 
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