That's exactly why trolls are trolls. These losers really have NOTHING better to do than going around to pick fights. Obviously stemmed from inferiority complex.EssTooKayTD said:
Steve
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NSX $799 lease deal specifics?
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Steve
NeSX said:
Care to run some numbers ? What would a new one cost to BUY nowadays ?
That lease deal sounds pretty inviting to me.
Okay... well at the beginning of this post the current lease offerings were summarized as $800 / 36 months with $2.6k due upfront.
I believe that comes out to around $31.4k, at the end of which you own nothing!
So compare renting a 2004 for $31.4k to buying an early model for $30k (key concept... buying... you own the car after shelling out $30k).
Obviously renting the car for $31.4k may appear attractive to some when compared to the MSRP of the 2004, however for someone who makes the statement: "truth hurts doesnt it.. how does it feel dumping $30k on a 14 year old car and getting smoked by a brand new STi? " it doesn't make any. Chances are that the beautiful new 2004 is going to get smoked too!
My intent is not to debate the merits of leasing vs buying but rather to point out the inconsistencies in a person's arguement (or ignorant statement depending on your read).
I believe that comes out to around $31.4k, at the end of which you own nothing!
So compare renting a 2004 for $31.4k to buying an early model for $30k (key concept... buying... you own the car after shelling out $30k).
Obviously renting the car for $31.4k may appear attractive to some when compared to the MSRP of the 2004, however for someone who makes the statement: "truth hurts doesnt it.. how does it feel dumping $30k on a 14 year old car and getting smoked by a brand new STi? " it doesn't make any. Chances are that the beautiful new 2004 is going to get smoked too!
My intent is not to debate the merits of leasing vs buying but rather to point out the inconsistencies in a person's arguement (or ignorant statement depending on your read).
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I've always purchased cars. Never leased. But, this was a no brainer. I think with the possibility of a new model coming out, that the lease provides a slight amount of security in that I know what the residual will be no matter how much the new model affects depreciation. In my case, I'm simply renting the car until the new model comes out. Then I'll buy a new one if it's great (or ever exists) or keep mine if it sucks. It seemed like a great deal. Plus, you keep mentioning $30,000 for an 11 year old car and just doing that. Not many financial institutions are interested in loaning that kind of money on a car that old. Also, you would definitely not get the interest rate of around 2% on that loan either as you do in the lease. So, to rent the car for 3 years will cost me about $5,900 in interest. I think you'll pay more interest on the used one. Granted, you'll own it, but you'll also have a high mileage car with a lot of maintenance costs that is old school and depreciated beyond belief because the new body style (if it ever exists) is out. I could have purchased the car with no problem, but 4% was the best interest rate I could get, and the potential depreciation was spooky. Don't assume because someone leases a car, that they can't afford it or are stupid. You can't get approved for a lease very easily and your credit has to be very good to get this lease. There are some leases that are crap, and some that are great deals. Acura is trying to unload the NSX and they are giving great deals to make that happen. I just took advantage of that deal.
And I will take advantage of the leased cars in 3 years and pick one of those beauties! 
I hope no one read into my post about leasing. I wasn't intending to suggest anything about anyone except ProV1 who seems to post rediculous topics complete with arguements that have holes so big in them that you could drive a truck through them.
I have to agree with Doc C. I too have leased a 2004 model for all of the same reasons. Plus, after seriously looking for about 6 months for a used car in a color combination and condition I would accept and not finding one helped me make the decision to lease. Now I have a NSX in a color combo that appeals to me and I will always know the history. If I decide to sell or turn it in at the end of the lease (reasons stated by Doc C.) the new owner will get all of the paperwork of a well documented and maintained car. Another plus is if you own your own business leasing makes a bit more sense.
We all have specific reasons why we have bought or leased specific year NSX's. This forum is a great place to get and share information on the cars we love (this is where I first found out about the lease), and use that information to hopefully make wise decisions that fit our needs. The bottom line is most of us who use this forum are driving a dream come true.
Mark
We all have specific reasons why we have bought or leased specific year NSX's. This forum is a great place to get and share information on the cars we love (this is where I first found out about the lease), and use that information to hopefully make wise decisions that fit our needs. The bottom line is most of us who use this forum are driving a dream come true.
Mark
While the lease looks very attractive, is there still room to negotiate? Those of you who have leased an '04, were you able to negotiate the deal? I'm considering one myself, but would love to go into a dealer w/ some fire power.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Many people have no concept of the benefits of leasing and instead insist that the only thing that makes sense is buying used cars cash. More power to you, but some of us feel that a lease can be a smart way to go.
I've never really cared at all about being able to say "I OWN THIS" which seems to be really one of the only truly quantifiable benefits of buying something. No one knows whether you leased it or bought it other than you and the dealer, so thats a personal issue.
Personally, I don't like buying used cars as you're often buying someone elses mess.
And to the question above, there wasnt a lot of room for negotiation on the lease deal when I did it since it is dictated by Honda. It's already a pretty good deal - low money factor, $57k residual (when I bought it), $83k cap cost.
To the poster that said "at the end you OWN NOTHING", thats just a huge mischaracterization. You've paid X amount into a cap cost and now have a residual that you can choose to pay off and own the car, or just give it back.
Unless you think a 3 year old NSX isnt worth $57k (and keep in mind its YOUR 3 year old NSX and you arent hunting through used car listings for it), then this should be pretty obvious.
As far as getting smoked by the STi, I hate to say it, but its a valid point. The NSX really is just nowhere near quick enough today and, for me, Im tired of making excuses for it. It's time for Honda to put this thing back into the running or put it to bed. Yeah sure of course there's more to a car than 0-60, hp, etc., but we *are* talking about sports cars here and those are big measures. The value proposition of the new NSX is really in jeopardy when you have to start splitting hairs over what its true value is over a $35k Subaru or $50k Chevy that can also hang at the track.
I've never really cared at all about being able to say "I OWN THIS" which seems to be really one of the only truly quantifiable benefits of buying something. No one knows whether you leased it or bought it other than you and the dealer, so thats a personal issue.
Personally, I don't like buying used cars as you're often buying someone elses mess.
And to the question above, there wasnt a lot of room for negotiation on the lease deal when I did it since it is dictated by Honda. It's already a pretty good deal - low money factor, $57k residual (when I bought it), $83k cap cost.
To the poster that said "at the end you OWN NOTHING", thats just a huge mischaracterization. You've paid X amount into a cap cost and now have a residual that you can choose to pay off and own the car, or just give it back.
Unless you think a 3 year old NSX isnt worth $57k (and keep in mind its YOUR 3 year old NSX and you arent hunting through used car listings for it), then this should be pretty obvious.
As far as getting smoked by the STi, I hate to say it, but its a valid point. The NSX really is just nowhere near quick enough today and, for me, Im tired of making excuses for it. It's time for Honda to put this thing back into the running or put it to bed. Yeah sure of course there's more to a car than 0-60, hp, etc., but we *are* talking about sports cars here and those are big measures. The value proposition of the new NSX is really in jeopardy when you have to start splitting hairs over what its true value is over a $35k Subaru or $50k Chevy that can also hang at the track.
spookyp said:
How about the balance sheet? When you own a car it is an asset and increases your net worth.
Sad but true...
kgb_agent said:
Whut ???
NeSX said:
Apples and oranges my man.
You're comparing paying $31.4K to lease a BRAND NEW '04 to buying a 10+ year old car ???
NSX-GUY said:Whut ???
Uh, basic accounting. A + L = OE.
The exact same principal applies to where you live. You have to pay (unless you're very lucky) for a roof over your head. So there are generally two ways:
(1) rent: you pay money to someone else for the right to live in a dwelling that is owned by them. The property affects your income statement, but not your balance sheet because it is not your asset.
(2) buy: you pay money to purchase a dwelling that will be yours. This property is titled to you, and therefore appears on your balance sheet. If you have a mortgage, the asset's liability decreases and your equity increases over time as you make payments.
Leasing a car is just renting...until you plunk down the money for the residual to own the car or give the car back.
One clarification: obviously any automobile requires expenditures to keep it running properly. Sometimes this causes people to talk about cars as a "liability." And it can sure feel like a liabilty at times, but from an accounting perspective if you own the car outright it is as much of an asset as a house, land, a computer, or anything else that is tangible.
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I too didn't mean to hijack the post - If you want a new NSX and the lease is attractive to your situation - by all means buy it, enjoy it, and come back here often.
My point (if there was one) was that if you are new to NSX ownership you might not be aware of nice the early coupes are and you might consider looking at an A or B example and compare before you buy.
Not meant to start a debate on leasing vs buying.
My point (if there was one) was that if you are new to NSX ownership you might not be aware of nice the early coupes are and you might consider looking at an A or B example and compare before you buy.
Not meant to start a debate on leasing vs buying.
NeSX said:
He might be in summer school now.
I wanted to see how you early NSX owners respond, and just as I expected and most of you went berserk. You all seem to be very good at labeling a new guy who doesn¡¯t agree with your ¡°You must BUY a used NSX¡± idea a ¡°TROLL¡± and come up with lame internet pictures and weak childish jokes.
Face it, you all spent $30-40k on a 10+ year old car w/ often 50k+ miles and when someone questions your purchase decisions you all get defensive and refer to them as ¡°trolls¡±. Great level of maturity.
¡°NSX is not about 0-60¡±? Yes, sportscars are not all about HP. But you think a NSX can run circles around a Z06 or EVO8 in an autox competition? Are you telling me a NSX can turn in faster laptimes at any major racetrack in the states than EVO8 or STi, especially by non professional drivers like us?
People here seem to believe leasing is the next worst thing to committing homicide, and make absolutely ridiculous statements such as ¡°When you own a car it is an asset and increases your net worth.¡±, so tell me why 50% of BMW, Mercedes, Porsche buyers today elect to lease their cars? Are you telling me all those people are too stupid to know that leasing is a total waste of money and buying is the only way to go?
You conveniently leave out other crucial variables and keep defending your purchases. How about the history of the 10+ yr old car you just bought? There was a thread here where owner found out that his NSX was rolled 2 years after he bought it. How certain are you your NSX is all cherry? How about warranty issues and repair costs? Is your 10 year old NSX warrantied?
When you lease, you pay for the depreciation in X amount of years + interest. You don¡¯t think your NSX will depreciate if you BUY it? Unless you paid $40k cash for your NSX, you are financing it, often with 6+% interest rate, and congrats for OWNING a 18-20 year old car that¡¯s worth about $10k when it's paid off. Why some people here think owning a car increases one¡¯s assets, I have no f##king clue. You seem to be confusing real estate vs automobiles badly. Furthermore, the acura lease deal has an interest rate of less than 2.5%. Goodluck getting a finance rate of 2.5%. And are you geting tax writeoffs on your purchase? FYI a special nationwide 350Z NissanFS lease program is $509/mo $1500 down. What is the MSRP on that car? Still don¡¯t think the lease is a heck of a deal huh.
I¡¯m gonna stop here, but feel free to continue posting lame internet pictures and make sad attempts at childish jokes.
Face it, you all spent $30-40k on a 10+ year old car w/ often 50k+ miles and when someone questions your purchase decisions you all get defensive and refer to them as ¡°trolls¡±. Great level of maturity.
¡°NSX is not about 0-60¡±? Yes, sportscars are not all about HP. But you think a NSX can run circles around a Z06 or EVO8 in an autox competition? Are you telling me a NSX can turn in faster laptimes at any major racetrack in the states than EVO8 or STi, especially by non professional drivers like us?
People here seem to believe leasing is the next worst thing to committing homicide, and make absolutely ridiculous statements such as ¡°When you own a car it is an asset and increases your net worth.¡±, so tell me why 50% of BMW, Mercedes, Porsche buyers today elect to lease their cars? Are you telling me all those people are too stupid to know that leasing is a total waste of money and buying is the only way to go?
You conveniently leave out other crucial variables and keep defending your purchases. How about the history of the 10+ yr old car you just bought? There was a thread here where owner found out that his NSX was rolled 2 years after he bought it. How certain are you your NSX is all cherry? How about warranty issues and repair costs? Is your 10 year old NSX warrantied?
When you lease, you pay for the depreciation in X amount of years + interest. You don¡¯t think your NSX will depreciate if you BUY it? Unless you paid $40k cash for your NSX, you are financing it, often with 6+% interest rate, and congrats for OWNING a 18-20 year old car that¡¯s worth about $10k when it's paid off. Why some people here think owning a car increases one¡¯s assets, I have no f##king clue. You seem to be confusing real estate vs automobiles badly. Furthermore, the acura lease deal has an interest rate of less than 2.5%. Goodluck getting a finance rate of 2.5%. And are you geting tax writeoffs on your purchase? FYI a special nationwide 350Z NissanFS lease program is $509/mo $1500 down. What is the MSRP on that car? Still don¡¯t think the lease is a heck of a deal huh.
I¡¯m gonna stop here, but feel free to continue posting lame internet pictures and make sad attempts at childish jokes.
It's funny, because with the above statement, you just admitted that you were trolling. So, who is being childish and showing a lack of maturity? D'oh!ProV1 said:
People were not calling you a troll because they don't agree with your viewpoints on leasing vs buying, they called you that because it was obvious that you were posting just to cause a reaction (which you confirmed).
I went back and reread the thread, and I don't see anyone getting defensive about their purchase decisions. They are, however, getting hacked off about a guy who posts a legitimate looking question, and then turns out to be someone who just wanted to get people riled up.
As far as the leasing/buying debate: Yes, there are absolutely good reasons to lease. 1. If you are the kind of person that likes to drive new cars, and switches cars every few years, leasing is THE way to go. Also, if you own a business, and can use the lease as a write-off, it makes sense. And, for some people, that is the only way they can afford to drive a new, expensive car.
But, for some people who don't mind getting a used car, and don't want to take the big depreciation hit in the first few years of a car's life, and are planning to keep the car more than a few years, then buying makes a lot more sense.
To each his own, everybody has different priorities.
Buying a $30K+ used 13 year old NSX, compared to a brand new $30K+ EVO is another example of deciding for yourself what you really want. But, I would be willing to make a wager with you on which car will be worth more after 5 years.
However, if you don't understand the purpose of owning an NSX (and based on your posts, you're not interested in owning an old one, or leasing a new one), why are you here? Do you really not have a life, and this is how you get your jollies? Very sad, in my opinion.
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I thought a lease was a liability?
The argument about buying a car outright to give you an asset on you balance sheet is odd. If you have $50K in the bank, that would be an asset. That $50K, even in the worst savings account ever will earn a small amount of interest and become more of an asset. If you take that $50K and buy an NSX, it's still an asset, but one that is becoming less of an asset over time (terrible investment). A lease would let you essentially only spend $30K over 3years at approx 2% interest. You still have at least $20K at the end of three years. The $50K still shrinks with a lease (at $799/month), but I have the use of that money to invest, purchase other things, do whatever I want to with it over the 3 year term. If you get lucky, you may actually earn enough interest (investments etc.) to offset the percentage rate of the lease. Offices lease copiers, computers, etc. all the time. Ted Turner once said in an interview that he borrowed money all the time because if he got a decent interest rate, it made more sense to use someone else's money and let them take the risk rather than him. I've never leased a car before and leases on high volume sellers may not be as reasonable as the NSX lease was, but it seemed to make sense to me. Do whatever works for you. No other leases on cars in this price or quality class even come close to being this reasonable. Good luck
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