NSX Tech Session on Saturday 12/8/07

[waldorf]

You're thoughts ?

Well... I would vote for next Saturday only because I have a conflict this weekend.

However, my wife is due on the 15th and about to *pop*, so I might have a conflict next weekend, also.

Looking forward to seeing the new shop.

 

[Coz]

LOL...we'll see how it goes.
A BIG Congratulations on the new addition on it's way...Way cool. I have 4 myself and wouldn't give them up for the world. Well, most of the time anyway...
You're always welcome to stop by, Tech Session or not.
We look forward to meeting you.
Let us know when the baby arrives !
We wish you the best !

Well... I would vote for next Saturday only because I have a conflict this weekend.
However, my wife is due on the 15th and about to *pop*, so I might have a conflict next weekend, also.
Looking forward to seeing the new shop.

 

[Coz]

HEY GUYS !

I've heard from a bunch of you about tomorrow. I agree.

We are going to postpone the Tech Session until next Sat, Dec. 15th.
There's no point in doing the Tech Session tomorrow with the heavy chance of rain. No one including myself wants to take thier NSX's out in major rain, to much of a pain in the butt to clean afterwards. I know since the Willow Springs track event last week was a rain fest and I had to spend 5 hours cleaning up my NSX after

Besides, doing a Tech Session when no one brings there cars is pointless.

So, let's reschedule it for Saturday, December 15th. from 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM.

Any questions, please feel free to call us.
Thanks.

 

[NsXMas]

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

Quick question - how do you determine abuse? What do you use to define abuse vs non-abuse?

The reason I ask is, because as we all know and love Ross, he can be a monster at the wheel, when he wants to be. :biggrin:

However, the night when he broke his brand new clutch on the 101 freeway, my family and I were with him, and knew it was not abuse. The clutch simply exploded while he was decelerating.

However, those who know how Ross drives, could declare "well Ross, you're very hard on your car, so it's abuse". But we who were there, and helped him tow his NSX to his house, knew he was not abusing the car.

So how do you do an autopsy on a broken NSX, and quantify it as "abuse" vs "non-abuse"??

Abuse can be very fuzzy, so help me understand your guidelines for what "abuse" means, and how you will determine that.

Ross,
In all fairness to other vendors and SOS...Parts break, that happens with all parts. Some just faster than others.
It's every shops nightmare to go through a job, do it right and then have a part fail a short time later. We as shops and consumers have no control over this if we installed them correctly and use them right. All we can do as shops is help our customers get through the nightmare.
Sure, the makers of these parts 99.9% of the time will replace them if it wasn't the installer or end user error, but that's it. They could care less about the labor hours spent putting them on or the money it took doing it.
I have been there and had to deal with this many times throughout my life with all cars. Knowing how I feel when this happens to myself is why I will work with a customer after the fact. If something breaks because of part failure and NOT abuse, then I am willing to charge 1/2 my labor rate to fix it again. But that's only because I know what's it like to be in that position and have to pay full price to fix something twice that wasn't your fault to begin with. It sucks. If it was the shops error, then there would be no labor charge at all. To me this is called standing by your customers and making friends along the way.
I can't control what other shops do, that's their business. But I can and will control what AAP does.
I didn't want this post to get into a name calling battle or rate the vendor battle. I don't want the tech sessions to turn into a situation where we stand around and bad mouth others.
It's all about doing Tech Sessions for owners, having a good time, learning things from each other and making friends.

Let's leave it at that brother, we'll have more fun that way.....

 

[Viewfromtheback]

no parts have broken on my car so I can't speak for it yet.. the key is that I have an upfront agreement. That's what you need in order to get a non-abusive claim.

If and when it happens.. I will be sure to post the conclusion.

I just repect a guy who is willing to even try to help someone out on a high labor, high hour job, semi-rare car...

Lets catch up sometime in person... you and Kelvin

 

[NsXMas]

no parts have broken on my car so I can't speak for it yet.. the key is that I have an upfront agreement. That's what you need in order to get a non-abusive claim.

If and when it happens.. I will be sure to post the conclusion.

I just repect a guy who is willing to even try to help someone out on a high labor, high hour job, semi-rare car...

Lets catch up sometime in person... you and Kelvin

Sounds great dude. You still owe me a barbeque for helping you tow your car. :biggrin: :biggrin:

Looking forward to it, and hope no more parts break for you so you don't have to test out the warranty!! :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Coz]

Non abuse to me is when you treat something with some respect and it breaks. If the part is meant to be used hard, then it should stand up to hard use. That's not abuse. That's operating the part within it's guidelines.

As an example and in Ross's situation, we all know how touchy NSX's clutches can be. If your driving it hard but doing it right and it breaks, I would consider that non abuse. If on the other hand you bring your RPM's up to 6000 and dump the clutch, that to me is abuse. It was not designed to handle such use.

Yes, Ross is a Madman, a great guy and I love him to death. He's been a great friend. I know how hard he can be on his NSX, I've driven behind him many times.... But I also trust Ross and know he will tell me the truth no matter how bad from experience.

The determination on such situations comes from believing what someone is telling you, trusting that person, inspecting the parts, talking to others that might have been there too and doing some research on the parts to see what others are saying about failures that have occurred. If it is a design flaw, then it benefit's us both to find it and go in a different direction replacement wise. The idea is to stop it from happening again.

This works both ways from the stand point that I have to have trust in what a customer is telling me and by the same token, the customer in what I am telling them.

It’s a judgment call, one that I will make on the customers side if there was any doubt. Like I said, I've been there and done that. I've been around long enough to know when someone is BS'ing me or not. I was born at night, just not last night :wink: Now if it continually happened with the same customer, then there might be a problem.

It sucks to get stuck paying for something twice since and I have been there many times in life. I also feel that charging 1/2 shop rate at that point is better than nothing. We're still making some money for the time spent and more important, it shows that customer we will stand behind them as long as there's mutual respect and faith in each other.

This is how and what long lasting relationships are built on.

Thanks for the clarification Jim.
Quick question - how do you determine abuse? What do you use to define abuse vs non-abuse?
The reason I ask is, because as we all know and love Ross, he can be a monster at the wheel, when he wants to be. :biggrin:
However, the night when he broke his brand new clutch on the 101 freeway, my family and I were with him, and knew it was not abuse. The clutch simply exploded while he was decelerating.
However, those who know how Ross drives, could declare "well Ross, you're very hard on your car, so it's abuse". But we who were there, and helped him tow his NSX to his house, knew he was not abusing the car.
So how do you do an autopsy on a broken NSX, and quantify it as "abuse" vs "non-abuse"??
Abuse can be very fuzzy, so help me understand your guidelines for what "abuse" means, and how you will determine that.

 

[Ether]

AAP - This is the first NSX shop to stand behind what all NSX owners need more than others. There are many companies offering aftermarket parts that sometimes fail. It is unfair to the car owner to pay the labor twice(sometimes in excess of 1000... aka clutch) and it is unfair to the shop/tech to do the job twice for payment once. AAP has worked on my car... and only because they have written on my invoice that if the parts associated with the labor fail.... they are willing to replace the part and discount the labor the second time to 50%...(when it's not their fault).. put that in your SOS tail pipe and smoke it

Jim - If you ever get a chance to meet the guy you will realize his passion for the NSX, the current terrible selection of service shops, and racing cars all together. He stands by Dali because Mark never screwed him over... if it ever happened, he would be the same guy who calls him out on a fourum on prime as he did with Chris.... Don't expect the same bull shit with Jim as you will with Chris.... Jim actually cares if your car is running. If you don't beleive me, service the car there... if something goes wrong... tell the story of how he handled it.

If you don't know anyone who has been burned at SOS you need to get out more. Chris is a website designer... all the service is done by his quailified and trained techs which I do have respect for. His lack of respect,personality, and compassion over the phone and in person makes me want to open an NSX shop. I don't need to anymore.

Now, SOS did a damn good job in the past at marketing our community and providing what we wanted. More products exsist today than ever and I think we are all estatic.

In addition to that... I dont know a single NSX owner who is happy with the total bill when they leave that place. Salt on the wound is how he treats you leaving with the bill.

Im not a prognosticator... but if I had to predict the future based on my experiences... SOS will be REMEMBERED not praised... just like RM Racing is...

Damn Ross, I don't have any issues with you but are the personal attacks really necessary? I know me and many others have been on group drives with you and have seen first hand how you drive your car; aggressive would probably be an understatement. Maybe some of your parts failures would have to do with that ... and just because your clutch failed when you were driving normally doesn't mean that you didn't cause any damage beforehand which lead to an eventual breaking point. Back to the point though, it's pretty lame to attack Chris directly because you had a bad experience at his shop. That said, good luck with your car, when something expensive breaks it sucks; regardless of how it happened.

For what its worth, I've been around since 2001, and ever since Chris and S.O.S. came here I've been a repeat customer with zero complaints. No complaints about my bill, prices, labor, quality of work, customer service, or any other aspect of his business. I don't think I can say that about any other company I've dealt with. Chris has always been nice to me and has helped me out on more than one occasion when he had no obligation to do so. Also, I've been satisfied when leaving S.O.S. after seeing my bill; always fair and always what was expected.

Also, I don't know Jim, so I can't (and won't) speak about him at all. I will say that it is cool there is another shop in town and tech days do sound interesting. I'd like to attend one but not if theres going to be a weird "funk" in the air from people who choose to get their cars worked on at different places for whatever reason. I'm always up for learning more about my car, and it would be great if there was no drama.

Finally, if I ever had to order something that I couldn't get through Chris here, it would definitely be COD. I don't see how anyone would order otherwise at this point after reading the countless threads. Like Frank; I am interested to know if Jim has any insight about what Mark has to say about everyones complaints since he seems to deal with him on a daily basis.

Side note: Whats up Frank? Haven't seen you in a while, how's your brother doing?

Sean

 

[Coz]

Great post Sean.
I promise you there will be NO drama at the tech sessions about who gets work done where. The tech sessions are not about pointing fingers and I will stop any drama if it starts.

I've been doing Tech Sessions for 6 years with DeTomaso's. There are several vendors out there that work on them as well. We have been able to do them without all the BS and everyone does walk away knowing they've learned something or have shared something with others.

The NSX Tech Sessions will be no different. They are going to be about the cars, not personalities.

I can assure you I could care less about Chris's business or what he does or doesn't do. I am not at all interested in taking Chris's customers in the least.
People will make their own decisions as times goes by. Freedom of choice
If your happy where you're at and who's providing your services, by all means, stay with it. I know I would.
I would never take that personal or allow anyone in my shop to. That's not what this is about.

Looking forward to meeting you Sean.

Working on Mark

 

[4cruizn]

Just wanted to introduce myself, my name is Brandon Bonds I am the head technician at AAP in Tempe AZ.

Hey Brandon! So you're at AAP now. You worked on my Legend a number of times at Acura of Tempe. I was in there yesterday talking to Chuck and he said that you'd left the dealership. You might remember my car -- it's a tan 2-door 1994 6-speed coupe. You changed all my (28 total) cooling system hoses awhile back. I'm happy to report that the car is still cruising right along at 305,200 miles and counting. I am going to stop by this event if I get any time at all. I'm working this weekend but I should be able to break away to swing by and join in the festivities. -- Tyson

Edit: Dang, I just read that the event was postponed until next Saturday, and I'll be in Utah that weekend. Sucks.

 

[Coz]

Tyson,
Your welcome to stop by anytime, tech session or not. We're there Monday through Friday from 7am to 6 PM. I look forward to meeting you.

 

[NsXMas]

...
Side note: Whats up Frank? Haven't seen you in a while, how's your brother doing?

Sean

Hey Sean, doing great. Let's get together some time. We've all been busy with work, but damn I miss hanging out with you guys.

I'll send you a PM with my contact info.

Take care man.

 

[01blacks4]

man im just glad that there seems to me more NSX activity going on in town....
lets keep it up...
get your crap worked on where ya want, buy stuff where ya want...but there are way too many cars sitting in the garage these days......

i hopefully will stop by....no car right now...but ill try and stop by.

marc

 

[gabej]

well said 01blacks4.
good luck on the shop jim.
will try and pass by the shop next weekend
gabe

 

[Coz]

Well said Marc.
Car or no car, you are always welcome to stop by.

man im just glad that there seems to me more NSX activity going on in town....
lets keep it up...
get your crap worked on where ya want, buy stuff where ya want...but there are way too many cars sitting in the garage these days......

i hopefully will stop by....no car right now...but ill try and stop by.
marc

 

[Coz]

Hey Gabe,
Long time no see.
Thanks.
Hope you can drop by, will be great to see you.

well said 01blacks4.
good luck on the shop jim.
will try and pass by the shop next weekend
gabe

 

[bonds]

Hey Brandon! So you're at AAP now. You worked on my Legend a number of times at Acura of Tempe. I was in there yesterday talking to Chuck and he said that you'd left the dealership. You might remember my car -- it's a tan 2-door 1994 6-speed coupe. You changed all my (28 total) cooling system hoses awhile back. I'm happy to report that the car is still cruising right along at 305,200 miles and counting. I am going to stop by this event if I get any time at all. I'm working this weekend but I should be able to break away to swing by and join in the festivities. -- Tyson

Edit: Dang, I just read that the event was postponed until next Saturday, and I'll be in Utah that weekend. Sucks.

Tyson what's up bro, Of course I remember you, the cleanest Legend on the planet. Let me know I you need anything?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Ross --

No disrespect to Jim on his thread, however, I wanted to point out some glaring mistruths on your post.

You are confusing your "clutch issue" with ScienceofSpeed and Basch Acura. We have never sold or installed a clutch for you. Ever. Your issue was with Basch Acura installing and then having a clutch fail in your car - not with our company. I haven't the slightest idea why you would confuse this rather pertinent detail. Please check your facts.

I'm sorry to read you feel personal attacks are neccissary. I don't see the justification.

regards,
-- Chris

Frank I am doing well thanks for asking....

I have been waiting to say anything about AAP for some time now... really waiting for the facility to be fully functional which it has been... I'll comment on all 3 area's

AAP - This is the first NSX shop to stand behind what all NSX owners need more than others. There are many companies offering aftermarket parts that sometimes fail. It is unfair to the car owner to pay the labor twice(sometimes in excess of 1000... aka clutch) and it is unfair to the shop/tech to do the job twice for payment once. AAP has worked on my car... and only because they have written on my invoice that if the parts associated with the labor fail.... they are willing to replace the part and discount the labor the second time to 50%...(when it's not their fault).. put that in your SOS tail pipe and smoke it

Jim - If you ever get a chance to meet the guy you will realize his passion for the NSX, the current terrible selection of service shops, and racing cars all together. He stands by Dali because Mark never screwed him over... if it ever happened, he would be the same guy who calls him out on a fourum on prime as he did with Chris.... Don't expect the same bull shit with Jim as you will with Chris.... Jim actually cares if your car is running. If you don't beleive me, service the car there... if something goes wrong... tell the story of how he handled it.

Brandon - I actually met with Brandon and put him in touch with Jim after our lunch meeting. I have been looking for guy who actually knew what he was doing in AZ for sometime. His experience speaks for itself. His resume actually put his paycheck at Acura (the job he left to start AAP) in high tax bracket. He was motivated to start a service orientated shop after I explained how "WE" as an NSX community get treated at the alternatives..... again.. the only dude that will touch my car again is the above mentioned...


as far as the comment

We are all judged by the friends we make, and especially in business, when a friend burns other people - customers, you have to be wary of these relationships and public perceptions.


If you don't know anyone who has been burned at SOS you need to get out more. Chris is a website designer... all the service is done by his quailified and trained techs which I do have respect for. His lack of respect,personality, and compassion over the phone and in person makes me want to open an NSX shop. I don't need to anymore.

Now, SOS did a damn good job in the past at marketing our community and providing what we wanted. More products exsist today than ever and I think we are all estatic.

In addition to that... I dont know a single NSX owner who is happy with the total bill when they leave that place. Salt on the wound is how he treats you leaving with the bill.

AAP is here to work on our cars cheaper than the dealership and better than the alternative.

Im not a prognosticator... but if I had to predict the future based on my experiences... SOS will be REMEMBERED not praised... just like RM Racing is...

 

[Coz]

None taken Chris.

Ross --
No disrespect to Jim on his thread, however, I wanted to point out some glaring mistruths on your post.
regards,
-- Chris

 

[Viewfromtheback]

Chris...

the cluch was a scenario used on what happens if something breaks...

My issues with you go way farther... I even remeber when I addressed them to you your reply via email was... I don't see them the same as you do

if you would like... I can post them all in a list and make them public?

 

[Coz]

Hey guys,
How about you please start another thread if this is where this is going.
This tread is about the upcoming Tech Session.
Thanks.

Chris...
the cluch was a scenario used on what happens if something breaks...
My issues with you go way farther... I even remeber when I addressed them to you your reply via email was... I don't see them the same as you do
if you would like... I can post them all in a list and make them public?

 

[Coz]

OK guys, the weather man says clear skys for Saturday.
The Tech Session is on........
10am to 3pm....
We have several cars showing up and lots to do...
See you there.
Jim

 

[MYNSX]

Ross --

No disrespect to Jim on his thread, however, I wanted to point out some glaring mistruths on your post.

You are confusing your "clutch issue" with ScienceofSpeed and Basch Acura. We have never sold or installed a clutch for you. Ever. Your issue was with Basch Acura installing and then having a clutch fail in your car - not with our company. I haven't the slightest idea why you would confuse this rather pertinent detail. Please check your facts.

I'm sorry to read you feel personal attacks are neccissary. I don't see the justification.

regards,
-- Chris

WOW.................I've been off this postboard for a little while .I am browsing the board (for the 1st time in months,just returned from my second home New York) and see this " CRAP" being thrown around .

It shows me how "accusations gone wild" can put a group in such dis-array.

It comes as no surprise who tends to throw the sh!t.

Such is life .

PS..... Had Cris from SOS been as well established as I know him to be for many,MANY now moons I may NOT have sold MYNSX.Furthermore ,I seem to rememeber Cris spending tons of time "not for profit" to help the NSX community .
GOOD LUCK!!


I'D trust SOS based on REAL LIFE past experience I HAVE NEVER SEEN CRIS TREAT ANY SITUATION IN BUSINESS W/ ANYTHING LESS THAN THE CLASS OF A 5 STAR RESTARAUNT.And personally a hell of a nice guy.

ps........ I hope you guys can work it all out .

Sorry to meet again on such crappy terms...........




FOCUSED DRIVEN AND PERSISTENT
NEVER CEASING,NEVER ENDING!!!!