R-77 paint match pain in the.... Formula painting experience needed.

[Alec_fields]

So I got a few parts recently that I need to color match and I'm not having the easiest time doing so. I have some 2 stage R-77 and painted my WW front lip with it and it looks perfect, but for these parts I wanted to go with the original tri-coat paint for a more authentic and hopefully color matched look. The spray out cards all looked a tad bit off and were almost too pink or light compared to my car. So then I tried a few cards with the 2 stage paint and it looked off.

I am taking the parts to my friends shop to get the actual work done in a heated booth. He is convinced that he can match the color perfectly and I have no doubt that he can, but has anyone else had this trouble. I don't know if we are really having a hard time matching or if my nearly 25 year old paint is that far off from the original. When I say that far off through 5 people couldn't tell a difference between our cards and the paint on my car but my neighbor and I know to look for those subtle differences.

Thanks in advance for any advice!!!

-Alec

 

[Honcho]

Maybe Joe L. (pbassjo) will chime in. R-77 is hard to match correctly (IIRC, there is a orange tint in the clear coat) and if anyone on Prime knows how to do it right, it's Joe.

 

[Lamchop168]

I totally agreed with Honcho and take it from me, I just got my car back from Joe L. (pbassjo). It took him close to 2 weeks to match my LBBP tri-coat. He said that every car is painted individually so every NSX's color is different so very slightly. When I first saw my car, it was incredible job Joe did. I cannot ask for anything more and to get the chance to speak with Joe is well worth the trip, a gentleman and a scholar! I don't think anyone has the knowledge like Joe does with NSX.

Frankie

 

[UnhuZ]

^ +1.

He gave me the correct way to paint my R77 (down to % of the paint mixs)... but it was the whole car, no match needed between panels.

He IS the man. Can't thank him enough.

Nuno

 

[LJSB]

Alec sent me a e-mail and I have responded. I think this color is one of the easier ones and we never have a problem getting a good panel to panel color. Using a let down panel is the proper method and done correctly it should work, providing of course, the paint you are trying to match is the factory OEM or a correct, similar, tri-stage refinish.

If I remember right Nuno (UnhuZ) they used Spies-Hecker water-based paint on your car and the mid coat looked PINK until it dried. The water paint when wet looks nothing like it should until it dries and at first you can think, "What the hell is this?", but it changes in a big way when dry.

Using water-based paint, when we paint a black car it looks GREEN until it dries. Once dry though it turns black as the devil's heart.

BTW NSX's were and are still refinished(refreshed) at the factory using water based paint.

Thanks for the nice words fellows. I appreciated it very much. I really do.

 

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

If I remember right Nuno (UnhuZ) they used Spies-Hecker water-based paint on your car and the mid coat looked PINK until it dried. The water paint when wet looks nothing like it should until it dries and at first you can think, "What the hell is this?", but it changes in a big way when dry.

yeap... basically you said for them to paint:

- 1 or 2 coats with the regular Spies-Hecker R77 mix...
- let it dry
- start to apply coats of the magical mix until i'm happy with the depth of the red (i was happy with 2)

when i showed the painter the magical mix formula, he and i went to do a test mix of 100gr, to test under
the hood... when we did the mix, we were puzzled..i mean, my thought was "WTF ?! my car will be dark PINK?!"
then we did spray this mix over a base coat of R77... and as supposed, it became PINK.... man.... i was like

then the painter got a heatgun so we could see the final result fast, and voilá... deep red area surrounded by
the base R77 coat... what a difference...

when i first saw the color of the mix, i thought Joe mistyped the # of the color in the mix formula, but i insisted
on going ahead, because deep in me i knew that he was right... i had to see the final result..

i'm very happy with it... and after all these years, it's still beautifull....

Thanks for the nice words fellows. I appreciated it very much. I really do.

i think good work and profissionalism are very unappreciated, so i do my best to voice the good work i see :wink:

Thanks,
Nuno

 

[goldNSX]

If I remember right Nuno (UnhuZ) they used Spies-Hecker water-based paint on your car and the mid coat looked PINK until it dried. The water paint when wet looks nothing like it should until it dries and at first you can think, "What the hell is this?", but it changes in a big way when dry.

This looks like a very timeconsuming task to the painter. My bloddy car was 'kissed' today, so it needs painting when the time is right. I'm not going to tri-stage anymore because the surrounding panels are two-stage on my car. Too much risk of tri-stage that my painter looses the nerves with formulating.



Looks like a new fender is needed. It's just a car and some money (the insurance company of the other guy will rub their eyes about the bill)...

 

[LJSB]

This looks like a very timeconsuming task to the painter. My bloddy car was 'kissed' today, so it needs painting when the time is right. I'm not going to tri-stage anymore because the surrounding panels are two-stage on my car. Too much risk of tri-stage that my painter looses the nerves with formulating.

Actually it's not time consuming at all. Maybe 20 min to make a let down panel and another 30-45 minutes at most for the actual booth time painting of the car.
Using this method assures you of a match where as if the base/clear doesn't match you have all the additional time of tinting and sample spraying and still dicey results. That can be very time consuming.

If you have 2 stage paint then it would be best if you stick with what you have. The tri-stage won't match. The base/clear and tri-stage are two different colors and you don't want that.

Though the base/clear is more orange and not as dark, most people are not able to see the difference and, in the sun, on separate cars, even more unlikely.

IMO, from your pic, you might want to try repair of that panel but again, let your repairer decide. He knows what's best for him to get the right results. Good luck.

 

[goldNSX]

IMO, from your pic, you might want to try repair of that panel but again, let your repairer decide. He knows what's best for him to get the right results. Good luck.

Thanks for the hint. I just came back from the bodyshop and they said they have techniques to repair it maybe like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY4TZkNfKLk but steel is different than hardened Aluminium. I insisted on a new one as I've once had a similar fender-bender which also was repaired but finally it was not the same shape and you could see irregular Areas/waves of filler under the paint. Not what I'm looking for.

Joe, can an NSX panel repaired back to perfect shape?

 

[tbnsxt]

View attachment 116522


Srry to thread jack but this could be removed completely by a good paintless dent removal guy. and definitly if you are going to get it repainted because any small imperfections can be removed with a bit of body work.

 

[goldNSX]

Srry to thread jack but this could be removed completely by a good paintless dent removal guy. and definitly if you are going to get it repainted because any small imperfections can be removed with a bit of body work.

I'm still astonished how good people you have in the US (see video above). I don't know how hard it is to find these pros but here in Switzerland I can hardly find then. One is hop the other is flopp but all promiss the same. My bodyshop works on F-cars and exotics and regular cars as well. I think I could convince them that I don't want to see anything at all afterwards. Let's see...

 

[LJSB]

Thanks for the hint. I just came back from the bodyshop and they said they have techniques to repair it maybe like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY4TZkNfKLk but steel is different than hardened Aluminium. I insisted on a new one as I've once had a similar fender-bender which also was repaired but finally it was not the same shape and you could see irregular Areas/waves of filler under the paint. Not what I'm looking for.

Joe, can an NSX panel repaired back to perfect shape?

Well that vid was remarkable. How someone can work 8 hours on something with that result and feel proud is pretty sad. It is still a mess. Look at the reflection of the lines and you can see how rippled and wrinkled it still is. To get that right in a decent bodyshop would have taken less time, maybe six hours and it would be ready for paint.
Pdr is a wonderful repair strategy and even can be useful in cutting down conventional repair time but THAT example is not one them.

They have excellent techs everywhere and I assure you in your area as well. Getting a body man that works on expensive cars like Ferrari's no more guarantees success than getting a cure from a doctor who only serves the very rich.
Most techs have worked on aluminum panels for years. It should not be a big deal.

Get someone you have past positive experience with. Listen to them. They are there. They can really see the car and are not a ocean away. I'd take a swing at repairing and in a hour or less would be able to tell if it was going to work or not and I bet your guy could do the same. Trust your tech to make the right call on this.
You can always buy a panel if you have to, so don't be in a big hurry to do so.