Seats re-visited

[TURBO2GO]

I know there is a lot of info on seats here. And I have gone through many threads. Yet some factors are still conflicting and I am looking for definite answers.

1) Does anyone know the exact weight of stock seats? I have read close to 38, but I also have read that the "lightweight" bucket racing seats are around 16. Add to this rails which at least on SOS's website are around 16 pounds, and you are up to 32 pounds. I am looking at some pics of the factory seat without padding. Its an aluminum shell. Why does everyone talk about these great weight savings?

2) The factory seat frame literally rests on the carpet. There is a lot of cushion, and that reduces headroom. There are claims that aftermarket seats will give more headroom, I am assuming most of that comes from less cushion. As I look at some of the seats and mounts, it is clear that they do NOT sit as close to the floor as the factory seats. How come no one mentions that most of the aftermarket seats sit higher? Does anyone have aftermarket seats that have given substantially more headroom? I am 6'2" and I really have issues.

3) I am baffled as to why anyone wants a reclining seat in the NSX. Even the factory recline seems useless to me. Its not like you have the room to recline much anyway. Can anyone give me a good reason why I would not want the weight savings of a bucket?

4) The reason I am considering seats is twofold. One, I have long legs... my thighs have little support from the factory seats. There is a lot of empty "space" between the back of my knee/leg and the front most part of the seat cushion. These seats are just not long enough on the bottom for me. I also want more headroom, but am real confused if I will get any.

5) I sat in two seats today. A recaro pole position, and a Recaro Profi XL. I did not like/fit into the pole position at all. The Profi XL felt great. I did some measuring, and it looks like the factory passenger side has less space than the driver's side. I think the Profi XL would fit in the drivers side, but not passenger side. That bums me out. Does anyone know different? Is the Pole position a cheaper recaro than the Profi? even the guy at the store didn't know the real differences. Has anyone fit a Recaro profi passenger side?

6) How good are the factory seats for occasional track use? Is making them work a budget solution? For guys that track their cars: would you change the seats if budget was not a consideration?

I went back to the F1spec seat thread, and I am not sure which of their seats is closest to the Recaro Profi or how good they are. How is it you guys buy seats without having tried them? I also fit well in the Recaro hans seat below. Any thoughts?

I have a 33-34" waist, 6'2" with long legs and a big head (literally and metaphorically). I barely fit in the car with no helmet, and my head bangs the part that sits a little lower than the targa area on the back. If the factory seat had a little more thigh support, I would just get the dali cushion or make one and be done with it. Some of the input/answers on this thread may make me change my mind. Please give your input if you can alleviate any of my confusion.

 

[Bryan]

I feel your pain. :smile:

I'm 6'6" and spent a lot of time researching this issue and even explored custom mounts and custom seats with a local race shop. I have the same annoyance with the lack of thigh support and the same head banging on the little lip behind the targa. I came to the conclusion that no aftermarket seat was going to fit quite as well as the stock seat. As your picture shows, no other seat will get any closer to the carpet.

I lucked into a deal on a second pair of stock seats and took apart the driver seat, sliced up some junk foam to fit me, went to my local upholstery shop and let them recover the seat. They used proper seat foam, but based it on my prototype pieces. The fit and the thigh support is much better (not perfect, but I wasn't willing to go through the process again to fine tune.) If you want a perfect leather match you'll need to recover both seats at the same time.

I also tried the Dali seat cushion. It worked as advertised (more headroom), but I thought it gave even less thigh support than stock and got pretty hard after a few months. I also needed to trim a little out of the side bolsters once I removed most of the bottom cushion, but I'm quite a bit bigger than you.

Good luck,

bryan

 

[Hrant]

Since you have the picture of my set up, let me give you my perspective. Mine has 50/50 use so it is not a track rat. Hence ride comfort is important and the OEM seats are among the most comfortable seats that I have had.

So keeping the OEM seat addresses the comfort. For track, taking the seat cushion out gives you pretty much the same snug hugging that you would get from a bucket seat; given thaqt you note waist size 33-34 they may not be as snug as for those with larger waist sizes but it shouldn't be too loose either. What really will hold you down is not the bucket seat per se, but the 6 point harness.

Yes, once you remove the seat cushion, you are sitting as low if not lower than any other seat. It is just not as comfortable unless you put some pad for longer drives.

The weight issue is primarily due to the motorized seat. Plus CF seat will always weigh less anyway. The padding/cushions are not too heavy but they all add up to the weight.

Regarding not enough seat/cushion under the knee-tight, yes that is true and it will get accentuated when you remove the seat cushion for the track. Bit trust me, you will forget about those issues once the adrenaline flows :wink:

Now, what you have not anticipated yet, is protecting your knees with knee pads : :biggrin:

 

[Bryan]

Forgot to mention... that pictured seat probably won't fit. Any reasonably large seat with big shoulder wings will interfere with the B-pillar behind the window. Been there, tried that. Don't buy anything unless you know for a fact that it will fit or you can return it.

 

[nsxotic911]

I know there is a lot of info on seats here. And I have gone through many threads. Yet some factors are still conflicting and I am looking for definite answers.

1) Does anyone know the exact weight of stock seats? I have read close to 38, but I also have read that the "lightweight" bucket racing seats are around 16. Add to this rails which at least on SOS's website are around 16 pounds, and you are up to 32 pounds. I am looking at some pics of the factory seat without padding. Its an aluminum shell. Why does everyone talk about these great weight savings?

Yes, the stock seats weight ~37/38 lbs. I weighed them myself.
The SOS rails weight 14.2 lbs + my Recaro PP's are ~15 lbs. For a total of 29-30 lbs. That's 14-16 lbs on both. Not that bad imho.
The REAL weight savings is with fixed rails. < 5 lbs each. Now you're talking about losing 10 lbs on both sides.. Problem is I can't find anyone to sell me fixed. TitaniumDave is working on a set. Good compromise is drive sliding, passenger fixed and seat all the way back. This is what I plan and I should get ~25sh lbs off total.

2) The factory seat frame literally rests on the carpet. There is a lot of cushion, and that reduces headroom. There are claims that aftermarket seats will give more headroom, I am assuming most of that comes from less cushion. As I look at some of the seats and mounts, it is clear that they do NOT sit as close to the floor as the factory seats. How come no one mentions that most of the aftermarket seats sit higher? Does anyone have aftermarket seats that have given substantially more headroom? I am 6'2" and I really have issues.

The sidemounting helps get the seat lower to the floor and the thinner cusion helps. I've remoed all the cushion on my PP's and that had given me at least 1.5/2.0+ headroom. It's not even uncomfortable, quite amazing actually. With rails + cushion removal, I think you'll end up being verycomfortable

3) I am baffled as to why anyone wants a reclining seat in the NSX. Even the factory recline seems useless to me. Its not like you have the room to recline much anyway. Can anyone give me a good reason why I would not want the weight savings of a bucket?
The stock seats are obviously more comfortable and the easiest to get out of what's a hard car to get out of anyway..... Depending on which seat you go to, you'r going to be more/less uncomfortable

4) The reason I am considering seats is twofold. One, I have long legs... my thighs have little support from the factory seats. There is a lot of empty "space" between the back of my knee/leg and the front most part of the seat cushion. These seats are just not long enough on the bottom for me. I also want more headroom, but am real confused if I will get any.
You will. Side mount at least 1.5/2.0 inches, if you take out the cushion, maybe even more. At least with the PP's that I have

5) I sat in two seats today. A recaro pole position, and a Recaro Profi XL. I did not like/fit into the pole position at all. The Profi XL felt great. I did some measuring, and it looks like the factory passenger side has less space than the driver's side. I think the Profi XL would fit in the drivers side, but not passenger side. That bums me out. Does anyone know different? Is the Pole position a cheaper recaro than the Profi? even the guy at the store didn't know the real differences. Has anyone fit a Recaro profi passenger side?
PP=Great. Don't know about any others..
6) How good are the factory seats for occasional track use? Is making them work a budget solution? For guys that track their cars: would you change the seats if budget was not a consideration?
Stock seats are some of the best seats comparatively to other cars. Have you sat in a F360 seat? That thing might as well have come out of a Lexus...
With that said, a aftermarket seat is going to hold your butt a heck of a lot better and it feels really good. Makes you feel much more "one" with the car.

I went back to the F1spec seat thread, and I am not sure which of their seats is closest to the Recaro Profi or how good they are. How is it you guys buy seats without having tried them? I also fit well in the Recaro hans seat below. Any thoughts?
[F1, enh, I'd spend a little more dough and get a Recaro or Sparco. They hold their value well too and proven quality../B]

I have a 33-34" waist, 6'2" with long legs and a big head (literally and metaphorically). I barely fit in the car with no helmet, and my head bangs the part that sits a little lower than the targa area on the back. If the factory seat had a little more thigh support, I would just get the dali cushion or make one and be done with it. Some of the input/answers on this thread may make me change my mind. Please give your input if you can alleviate any of my confusion.

I really believe that an aftermarket, side mount seat you will like.

CIL.

 

[UnhuZ]

Excuse my ignorance, but in the photo of that cushionless OEM seat...what is that "belt" that sits triangularly in the bottom with the metal "T" thing in the most front end???

 

[Floyd]

I'm very curious to see your solution. I'm 6'5" with same waist and like the others have searched for the proper answer.

 

[MvM]

I have read several times that it is possible to re-use the original OEM seat rails in combination with (for example) the Recaro PP-seats.
I wonder what this means in terms of weight savings AND in differences in seat height.

Would like to know how this is done too.

 

[nsxotic911]

I have read several times that it is possible to re-use the original OEM seat rails in combination with (for example) the Recaro PP-seats.
I wonder what this means in terms of weight savings AND in differences in seat height.

Would like to know how this is done too.

Excellent question! And I have these for sale
Yes they can be used. I haven't weight them, but most of the weight of the 38 lbs is the rails, probably around 20 lbs. That + the seat is basically what the stock seat is in weight.

The value is that you can use the electronic adjustment so it's pretty cool and gives you the Type R feel.

Interested? PM me.

 

[WingZ]

Hey dave

I'm only 6ft with 32" waist so I don't have the same issues but am very curious on aftermarket seat fitment as well.

My research on this seemed to lead to the Type S or Type R seats as they were developed to fit in the NSX correctly and only the aftermarket seats shaped like them seem to look right in the NSX. They are ungodly expensive though as the market for them is so small but they're lighter than the standard OEM seat and grippier. I wonder if they're lower as well in pics they seem to be the same height but maybe someone who has them can chime in.

The Type S seat does seem to dip some in the ass as you can see in this pic

And it seems to lay flatter against the rear at the top part of the shoulders which should ( I think ) allow for more helmet room as if your shoulders are an inch back by angle gives more head room

They have a nice taper in the waist too for us thinner guys

As far as the stock seats at the track go they're a bit slippery in super hard turns but not bad. Since you already have some slight space issues it seems like that may work to your advantage.

Hardest thing with track mods on the NSX is that you don't want to take away from your DD status.

 

[KSXNSX]

Bride GIAS Ultra-low Max seats with rails give you 2+ inches of headroom (By my personal guess, it is closer to 3) compared to the stock 02+ targa seats/roof.

However, the seat-back width is narrow, so if you are incredibly buff like me--haha--you will feel the squeeze.

ingress/egress is tougher than stock seats. Stock seats are more comfortable and luxurious imo. But the headroom increase is undeniable.

BTW: I am also 6'2''. I have PLENTY of headroom when sitting in the Bride seats, but just barely clear the stock seats (depending on how I style my hair).

 

[docjohn]

Excuse my ignorance, but in the photo of that cushionless OEM seat...what is that "belt" that sits triangularly in the bottom with the metal "T" thing in the most front end???

that is a anti submarine or crotch belt for a racing 5 point harness system added by the owner. To the op if you want or like the comfort of the oem seats but need to be held more securely at the track I would suggest the thinner seat cushion or remove completely and a 5 or 6 point harness system this provides me all the support I need.

 

[latzke]

What really will hold you down is not the bucket seat per se, but the 6 point harness.

...

Now, what you have not anticipated yet, is protecting your knees with knee pads : :biggrin:

Agree that 6-point harness does help hold you in place on the track...install/use of such solved my sore knees issue. Locking/tightening the OEM seat belt should accomplish much of the same:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=788086&postcount=7

If you really want to gain some headroom and reduce weight over stock, you could just pull the seat out, mount the belts directly to the car, and sit on the floor (stick pillows next to you for lateral support). :wink: :biggrin:

 

[nsxotic911]

BTW: I just put my PPs+ SOS Rails and it was a total of 30 lbs. That's a 7+ lb savings. Not bad imho. With a fixed rail on the other side, you should be able to gain 15+ lbs easily for a 25+ lb total weight loss (what I'm trying to acheive)

Headroom wise, it's much better. I'm 6'0 and I have ~1.5" I actually have to raise myself when going over certain hills/areas yet lessen the chance of hitting my head in the past.

As I've mentioned - the real height benefit comes into play when you remove the cushion. At least 1.5, 2.0" for a total of ~4.0"

Removing it is too low for me, I can't see much over the steering wheel and it's unsafe to drive... but for the 6'4"+ people, it would make you guys much more comfortable.

I don't think it looks or feels bad at all (at least on the PPs).

 

[TURBO2GO]

Bride GIAS Ultra-low Max seats with rails give you 2+ inches of headroom (By my personal guess, it is closer to 3) compared to the stock 02+ targa seats/roof.

KSX, is this personal experience? do you have these seats? I like them but the recline mechanism makes them heavy and I would probably never use it.

 

[fkong777]

Here is the seat rail.
It is almost all steel. Yes it is the bulk of the weight on the seat. You have to take apart the entire seat to get to this point.
If you wish to modify the OEM rail to fit aftermarket seat you will need to cut off the vertical point of the rail and loose the reclining motor function. This also means you wasted the OEM seat.

 

[nsxotic911]

Here is the seat rail.
It is almost all steel. Yes it is the bulk of the weight on the seat. You have to take apart the entire seat to get to this point.
If you wish to modify the OEM rail to fit aftermarket seat you will need to cut off the vertical point of the rail and loose the reclining motor function. This also means you wasted the OEM seat.

Fkong - how did you make the side brackets? Can you provide a closer picture? PS/shameless plug, again: I have some stock rails that I can sell though you'll need to make some quality custom brakes. I have a couple of home depot hacks, but expect to be like the guy in San Diego in a bad crash if you don't get good brackets

 

[fkong777]

Fkong - how did you make the side brackets? Can you provide a closer picture?

I didn't modify the OEM rails. I sold them to a member since I wasn't doing anything with it. Sorry no more pictures except that one.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

I couldn't believe how heavy the stock seats were until I had to move them. Combined weight felt like a good size love seat (no kidding).

And since I rarely recline them, I made to switch to Recaro PP. Why? Because #1 they fit me fine, #2 mount in my car perfectly, #3 five other NSX race-prepped cars in the shop also had them. I almost purchased the F1 seats because of price, but glad I didn't due to the above reasons.

But for comfort or long drives, those stock seats are the best (that's why I won't sell them ever). If you daily drive your car or do occassional track days, then your current seat set-up should work fine.

 

[docjohn]

I couldn't believe how heavy the stock seats were until I had to move them. Combined weight felt like a good size love seat (no kidding).

And since I rarely recline them, I made to switch to Recaro PP. Why? Because #1 they fit me fine, #2 mount in my car perfectly, #3 five other NSX race-prepped cars in the shop also had them. I almost purchased the F1 seats because of price, but glad I didn't due to the above reasons.

But for comfort or long drives, those stock seats are the best (that's why I won't sell them ever). If you daily drive your car or do occassional track days, then your current seat set-up should work fine.

Exactly I keep telling the ocasional tracker to get a harness system and keep your stock seats,but some folks want to feel like a racer all the time

 

[KSXNSX]

KSX, is this personal experience? do you have these seats? I like them but the recline mechanism makes them heavy and I would probably never use it.

It is personal experience from sitting in another person's car with the Bride seats. I noticed the difference immediately when I sat down. I think the seat bottoms themselves may sit closer to the floor than the stock. The cushions were thinner also.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Exactly I keep telling the ocasional tracker to get a harness system and keep your stock seats,but some folks want to feel like a racer all the time

Doc I don't particularly feel my stock seat is all that comfy. My legs are too long for that seat, there isn't enough thigh support for me. I am quite a bit more comfortable in the Racaro SPG. It may have less padding but it FITS me. So for me it's not about being a racer all the time, I think the stock seat is better suited for people with shorter legs than mine. Combine that with their lack of harness capability and the stock seat is just OK. And its still heavy. Why didn't they make those rails from aluminum?!

 

[BioBanker]

Dave - with TiDaves sub bar and a Dali cushion, the stock seat isnt so bad with either headroom or with holding you down (when combined with a 5 or 6pt).

I just replaced the set up above, which worked pretty well, with a set of Carbon Kevlar OMPs. My waist is also around 32 and these seats were comfortable for me for a 4 hr drive last weekend. Shoulders are a bit narrow for me though, but not bad.

Im going to sell the sub belt bar, sparco 5pt (good till 2011) and dali cushion as a pkg.

 

[docjohn]

I hear ya man,even with the adjustability of the stock seat you cant' find a compromise position? What invariably happens(from talking to owners at xpos) is that after a few months of a nonadjustable thinly padded seat you have regrets. You could certainly prove me wrong though esp if none of your travels is greater than 2-3 hours.Of all the race type seats I have sat in I concure that the spg felt most comfortable.The stock rails/frame are heavy because of the motor assembly and to meet various safety standards.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Bio, you got any pics? are you installing a rollcage or was Red just joking? I am assuming you lost headroom with the OMP's. Hey is that YOUR yellow one with the OMP's at est fest?