U.S. official: Russia's attack on Georgia is 'disproportionate'

[queenlives]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.reax/index.html

a shame that a diplomatic approach wasn't adhered to. like so many exchanges / wars, from the photos it appears an lot of damage to the civilian population.

 

[Dtrigg]

I went to the grocery this afternoon. The little girl at the check-out counter had her name tag on. It read, "IE". I asked her how she pronounced her name, and she told me. She told me she was from Georgia, and asked if I knew what was going on in her country. I said yes that I had been following the news on BBC because they had better coverage. That's when she started to cry. That's also when I began to feel like crap. I tried to tell her everything would be OK and she shouldn't worry. She told me her family was still there and cried even harder. GAWD, did I feel like crap. Poor thing.

 

[Sarge]

I would give ANYTHING to not make her FEEL LIKE CRAP even if it meant my life. You see after you reach the age of 35 and you amount to nothing, you want EVEN MORE to make a difference in the world. I would cretainly give it a shot and never think twice. I have no idea what the cause or circumstance is but id sure like to help. I guess im just un educated and brainwashed, but id like to think its more than that.

 

[nsxotic911]

Given Russia continuing geo-political rise, I saw this coming.

It will be interesting how Bush reacts. If it's been like anything in the past, it will be to roll over from Russia and "look the man in the eye...."

McCain has the right response to hold the line with Dictators, and Putin is a Dictator. Any appeasement that will continue, as Bush has done, is bad bad bad.

Russia has been the gorilla in the room, but with US so focused on terrorism, it has not had an appropriate containment strategy imho.

I predict that in the next few years, we'll see just how damaging the fact that the Bush Administration, and the rest of the Western world did not stand up to Russia.

Keep in mind that both countries still have launch capability within 10 minutes. All it takes is one side to freak out.

I'm from Romania, in the neighborhood so I'm concerned as well. My HOPE is that the West says "get the fun out of there" and it works.

 

[Ojas]

In Pictures: Russia and Georgia at War:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26090865/displaymode/1107/s/2/

Videos:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7551291.stm

 

[DucTerry]

I would give ANYTHING to not make her FEEL LIKE CRAP even if it meant my life. You see after you reach the age of 35 and you amount to nothing, you want EVEN MORE to make a difference in the world. I would cretainly give it a shot and never think twice. I have no idea what the cause or circumstance is but id sure like to help. I guess im just un educated and brainwashed, but id like to think its more than that.

Didn't you say you were a Drill Instructor?
The way I see it, anyone who has served in the Armed Forces has made a difference. A man who trained the Soldiers or Marines that would carry on when he no longer could makes a deep lasting mark. As long as you performed your normal duties to the best of your ability and trained those young recruits as best you were able, you never have any reason to feel bad about what you have done with your life. Ever.
Just my .02

 

[nsxotic911]

This video hit it on the head:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26092138#26092138

 

[KSXNSX]

Does anyone know what really happened?

From the articles I read, it seems that Georgia made the first move on S. Ossetia killing ~12 Russian peacekeepers in the process.

Russia then scrambled a force much larger than Georgia, and bombed 3 military bases.

Others report that Russia started it somehow, and has been plotting this for a while. I don't know if this is credible.

Of course, the western media has yet again, spun the story to make it sound like Russia was the initial aggressor since Georgia is the US's ally.

Does anyone know the truth?

 

[naaman]

Sarge, I agree w/ DucTerry.

Less than 1% of Americans have done what you have done. The entire country (or should I say "countries") depend on people like you to protect them from dictators and bad guys all over the place.

I personally am eternally greatful for you service and sacrifice. Your willingness to stand up to the enemy is something that more than 99% of Americans will not do.

You are one of few who have stood up to protect many. And I have no doubt that if the fight ever came to our doorstep, wheelchair or not, you'd "stand up" again doing what you could when you could.

 

[Zuerst]

So what really happened? Having seen the media coverage of Tibet and Olympic pollution issues, I'm not so sure if the media is telling the whole or even the true story.

 

[fullracehonda]

So what really happened? Having seen the media coverage of Tibet and Olympic pollution issues, I'm not so sure if the media is telling the whole or even the true story.

nobody really knows exactly, from what ive gatherd(from watching cnn)

1)a province in georgia next to the russian border has alot of russian loyalists
2)russia started giving citizenship to the people in that province(i guess slowly trying to turn it into russian soil??)
3)russian loyalists in that province and georgia police?? or some sort of georgia started having some "domestic" problems of some sort
4)russia had sent "peace keepers" to that georgian province
5)im not sure but minor attacks seemed to be going both ways, i think it was russian loyalists towards the georgian govt and some russian peace keepers might have been involved with a retaliation from georgia on the russian loyalists
6) a day or two or three before the war broke out(during the opening of the olympics) russia sent 150 tanks over the border into that georgian province
7) SH!T HITs THE FAN, how?? nobody knows
8) russia starts useing strategic bombers, and other aircraft in bombings in that province
9) the bombers/attack aircraft have been hitting targets outside of that particular georgian province
10) georgia accusing russia of hitting civilian targets on their "strategic" bombing runs



so in reality, nobody really knows, its a pissing match, russia accusing georgia of attacking thier peace keepers, georgia accusing russia of trying to invade thier soverign(sp?) territory and now trying to take over georgia just like they tried in afganastan and other countries earlier,

 

[NSXrebel]

I just read this thread and it's the first I've heard of any such thing. I'm going through the usual news networks and I see nothing being mentioned. I forget what channel BBC is on, I have Time Warner. Anybody have more details?

 

[KSXNSX]

So what really happened? Having seen the media coverage of Tibet and Olympic pollution issues, I'm not so sure if the media is telling the whole or even the true story.

:smile:

It's reassuring to hear someone else feel the same way I do.

People usually think I am crazy for saying that almost all the news agencies (e.g. Fox, CNN, BBC, etc.) mis-represented the truth regarding Tibet.

They wouldn't believe it until I showed them proof from whom they would consider objective (i.e. European sources). So I showed them home-videos from European tourists in Tibet.

I was shocked myself as I grew up thinking CNN was a trusted source. As far as I am concerned, they are nothing but an propaganda machine. It's really disgusting to see how much they deceived the public. I love how when they appeal to an authority, they bring in not a political scientist but Richard Gere. LOL. What the hell does he know? How is he qualified to speak on the subject?

Luckily, we have the internet and you can find all sorts of information out there. Sometimes you get lucky enough to find objective sources.

Now, I am almost certain I am seeing the same thing regarding Russia and Georgia.

 

[ncbluetj]

Ok fill me in. Its not that I'm surprised that CNN misrepresented the news (far from it), I'm just not familiar with the particulars. How did Cnn misrepresent the Tibet thing?

 

[NSXFRIEND]

nobody really knows exactly, from what ive gatherd(from watching cnn)

so in reality, nobody really knows, its a pissing match, russia accusing georgia of attacking thier peace keepers, georgia accusing russia of trying to invade thier soverign(sp?) territory and now trying to take over georgia just like they tried in afganastan and other countries earlier,

Russian history according to my history professor way back.

Russians killing "millions"(russians included) throughout eastern europe and central asia during the era of the great game and to this day. Ethnic cleansing is the backbone policy of russia. Invade divide conquer and when it doesn't work bomb them away regardless of casualties. The goal by the secularist-communist party destroy religion as a whole and control the land.

Russians are known as Gog-Magog trouble makers in the Bible kinda interesting stuff.lol

The ethnic cleansing in Georgia are against christian-muslim populations in the south of iranian-turkic decent. Funny part is Slavs-Russians are of Turkic-caucaus race themselves wierd Irony.

 

[Ski_Banker]

This thread, and the (lack of) replies, and the ill-placed skepticism, and the US media "let's not take sides" reporting, COMPOUNDED BY the nationwide distrust of anything/anyone political, has rendered us powerless. It is heartbreaking. Our greatest ally, Georgia, wants to continue pursuing Western ideals (while bearing all the risk of piggybacking your oil...your welcome). But, when they need us, we point fingers and drag our hands instead of facing the tough decisions.

The Russians are wiping this country off the map, and meanwhile we aren't sure if we should blame CNN, Pelosi, Bush, Fox News, or "those people over there that are always fighting".

PLEASE wake up. This isn't a political issue. Not a media issue. Frankly not even an American issue. This is an issue of inhuman atrocity.

Hal, Doug... I was hoping you would post something along these lines earlier. God bless everyone.

 

[fullracehonda]

if russia is absolutley content on wiping georgia off the face of the earth why arent they doing it faster, they have the weapons and power to run it over within a matter of 24-48 hours,


i dont compeltely understand whats going on overthere but god be with the georgians in this time of need.

 

[nsxotic911]

This thread, and the (lack of) replies, and the ill-placed skepticism, and the US media "let's not take sides" reporting, COMPOUNDED BY the nationwide distrust of anything/anyone political, has rendered us powerless. It is heartbreaking. Our greatest ally, Georgia, wants to continue pursuing Western ideals (while bearing all the risk of piggybacking your oil...your welcome). But, when they need us, we point fingers and drag our hands instead of facing the tough decisions.

The Russians are wiping this country off the map, and meanwhile we aren't sure if we should blame CNN, Pelosi, Bush, Fox News, or "those people over there that are always fighting".

PLEASE wake up. This isn't a political issue. Not a media issue. Frankly not even an American issue. This is an issue of inhuman atrocity. "
Hal, Doug... I was hoping you would post something along these lines earlier. God bless everyone.

SkiBanker is absolutely right. I hope US, UN and NATO get their head out of their *** and push Russia back. Otherwise, we will be looking back at this once again and say "how did we lose poland/chekoslovakia/china/afghanistan/georgia" and the list may go on n on.

Please pray for Georgia and "world peace "

 

[Zuerst]

SkiBanker is absolutely right. I hope US, UN and NATO get their head out of their *** and push Russia back. Otherwise, we will be looking back at this once again and say "how did we lose poland/chekoslovakia/china/afghanistan/georgia" and the list may go on n on.

Please pray for Georgia and "world peace "

I don't think we'll lose China (land...) to Russia anytime soon, if ever.

Looks like the armed advancement was called off by Russia, for now.

 

[fullracehonda]

Looks like the armed advancement was called off by Russia, for now.

just saw that on cnn, its about dam time

 

[queenlives]

i'm glad to see some progress toward a cease fire is being made. i think the damage to the civilian population, especially, is shameful.

i know relatively little about the georgian / russian situation, but i will say this: starting a fight with with russia after russia has had its nose rubbed in the dirt for so long was not the brightest thing to do; expecting the u.s. to come to its rescue after starting the fight was simply foolish: momma always told me not to start a fight unless i could win it and if i did start a fight and didn't win it, she'd kick my ass when i got home and she found out about it. (mom had been a rosie-the-riveter in wwII)

like it or not, we are a country that is economically, financially, militarily and emotionally exhausted from (among other things) fighting multiple wars. going to war in a country 99% of us know little about except they are pro-democracy is something i seriously doubt capable of finding support @ this point in time. it gets zero support from me on a personal basis; and if anybody here think we ought to be in there fighting, please post a picture of yourself enlisting so you can lead the way.

there's an interesting editorial in the wsj today about the shifting of power taking place in the world today, in large part due to the economics of ownership of oil resources... worth reading if you have the access / interest / time. i share the opinion of the author of this piece - and many others - that times are changing and the u.s. ain't the be-all / end-all we were for so many years.

 

[Yankee]

Does anyone know what really happened?

From the articles I read, it seems that Georgia made the first move on S. Ossetia killing ~12 Russian peacekeepers in the process.

Russia then scrambled a force much larger than Georgia, and bombed 3 military bases.

Others report that Russia started it somehow, and has been plotting this for a while. I don't know if this is credible.

Of course, the western media has yet again, spun the story to make it sound like Russia was the initial aggressor since Georgia is the US's ally.

Does anyone know the truth?

Hi Guys, appeciate you are of interest to my country.
Well, making long story short:
in 1991 Mr. Eltzin and few more has agreed separation of few former respublics off the USSR, and that were done due to few reasons - to allow local heads to control it's terittory and incomes. From the other hand it maybe saved our country from the civil war, since the control of the free resources was to tasty to heads of the Communist Party. However not all of the respublics was ready for it, since overall economics was crossing: Ukraine and Belirussia was mostly countries of agriculture, etc. All of the separate countries have got their own dictator. Some of them are is still in.

Georgia are the US ally only due to US is of interest to have an ally nerby Russia.

But in Russia, average people are living more or less good, more and more it's possible to have a good job, normal life, etc. We do no have such dictature as for instance Georgia or Belorussia. And people are more and more coming to Russia from nerby abroad to have better job, or at least ANY job. It's def owefull Saakashvili started that war. And I know that he did this, even I do not understand why that was not blocked in advance, since all the troops movements were clear. Maybe because Medvedev and Putin did not wanted they will be blaimed that they started... IMO they have to do, since anyhow everybody in US press will say that Russia did that. But in case they would, much of lives will be saved.

Moreover, our democtacy is developing each year, maybe it is not about the really big businesses, like gas or steel sectors, but in a small field - it's possible to work. So, I'm pretty sure that the reason is simple, to try to attrakt attention and to return finacial incomes, like wine and other georgian products that was embarged after several attempts to influence on gas lines building via the Georian theretorry... I do not think it will help the Georgian people, but it will increase the control and incomes and help dictator. I do not know if the US is behind this or not, but such war is usually good for firearms traders - thy may test it. Georgia buying them in the US...

How will pay for it?
Soldiers. Russian, Georgian, Osetian etc.
Who will earn?
Firearms traders, and big politics.

we do not need it, we do not want it!!!! We were in Chechenia for a long time, and did not settle even one question. But what we can do?

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Hi Guys, appeciate you are of interest to my country.However not all of the respublics was ready for it, Some of them are is still in But in Russia, average people are living more or less good, more and more it's possible to have a good job, normal life, etc. We do no have such dictature as for instance Georgia or Belorussia. And people are more and more coming to Russia from nerby abroad to have better job, or at least ANY job. It's def owefull Saakashvili started that war. And I know that he did this, even I do not understand why that was not blocked in advance, since all the troops movements were clear. Maybe because Medvedev and Putin did not wanted they will be blaimed that they started... IMO they have to do, since anyhow everybody in US press will say that Russia did that. But in case they would, much of lives will be saved.

Moreover, our democtacy is developing each year, maybe it is not about the really big businesses, like gas or steel sectors, but in a small field - it's possible to work. So, I'm pretty sure that the reason is simple, to try to attrakt attention and to return finacial incomes, like wine and other georgian products that was embarged after several attempts to influence on gas lines building via the Georian theretorry... I do not think it will help the Georgian people, but it will increase the control and incomes and help dictator. I do not know if the US is behind this or not, but such war is usually good for firearms traders - thy may test it. Georgia buying them in the US...

we do not need it, we do not want it!!!! We were in Chechenia for a long time, and did not settle even one question. But what we can do?

I can understand your commeradory and patriotism. However Russia is not a Democracy but a Mafioso run government full of KGB-criminals who should face war crimes against humanity.
You say Russia has good life but has so many widows and human trafficing to Seattle-Florida is very high no Baboshka, how is that gap between the rich and poor in Russia?

Putin thinks hes in a game, he wants the oil-resources of Georgia, just as the criminals before him who killed Chechnians left and right, or half million Afghans during 10 years of illegal war, or the millions in central asia and eastern europe or supporting the ethnic cleansing against Christian Croatians or Bosnian Muslims.

Try to be a little honest with yourself Kharasho.

 

[Klayton]

Russia is not a Democracy but a Mafioso run government full of KGB-criminals who should face war crimes against humanity.

That's a perfectly accurate description for another large country that is fighting 'disproportionate' wars when you delete the letters r s and i from rUSsiA and exchange three letters from KGB.

 

[Yankee]

I can understand your commeradory and patriotism. However Russia is not a Democracy but a Mafioso run government full of KGB-criminals who should face war crimes against humanity.
You say Russia has good life but has so many widows and human trafficing to Seattle-Florida is very high no Baboshka, how is that gap between the rich and poor in Russia?

Putin thinks hes in a game, he wants the oil-resources of Georgia, just as the criminals before him who killed Chechnians left and right, or half million Afghans during 10 years of illegal war, or the millions in central asia and eastern europe or supporting the ethnic cleansing against Christian Croatians or Bosnian Muslims.

Try to be a little honest with yourself Kharasho.

I'm honest with myself, I did not mentioned that there are no gap between poor and rich, but let's look the history: USA have got it's own Afganistan, and not only one time. Regarding Muslims and especially Shariat people - you do not know them at all, and lucky you! I would not say our internal policy doing everything right, neither external, even I did not say I'm OK with the way our government are going, as well I 'm 100% against bloody bastards that are thefting our poor country and keep stolen money in US and Europe, neither you do, I belive... But your banks - they are OK with that, isn't it? We cannot do anything except to sacrifise out lives in case you are in army and you gave the oath. Or you'd prefer another civil war? I mentioned that it is 100% better comparing year 1991, and it's better for me as well. However if you would ask me if I do have faith that Russia would have a future going same way, I would say: "No, I have not."