View Poll Results: Which do you do when driving your NSX.

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  • I heel and toe rev match

    69 43.67%
  • I don't heel and toe but I rev match if my foot is free (not going into a turn)

    61 38.61%
  • I double clutch on upshifts

    9 5.70%
  • I skip shift meaning I will rev out the motor in one gesr and skip a gear at times.

    32 20.25%
  • I don't do any of the above.

    32 20.25%
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Thread: How do you drive?

  1. #1
    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    How do you drive?

    This is an anonymous poll, so be honest when you vote. You can vote for several or none. I want to know the actual percentages. If you lie, the only person you are fooling is yourself. No one will know what you voted on.

    You can vote for more than one!!
    Last edited by TURBO2GO; 09-12-2012 at 07:23.
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    Charter Gold gleibig's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Nevermind. Poll didn't show up 1st time I clicked.
    Last edited by gleibig; 09-12-2012 at 07:14.
    '91 Sebring Silver

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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Explanations:

    Heel and toe: using heel of our foot to blip the throttle to rev match the engine to transmission speed when going into a corner. Toes are on the brake pedal, left foot is on the clutch. Right foot operating brake and gas at the same time just like they teach you at the DMV.

    Double clutch example: going from 1-2, you press clutch, go to neutral, let out the clutch, press the clutch back in, go to second, let off the clutch. Each up shift requires 2 press and releases of the clutch pedal.

    Skip shift: you accelerate hard at times in one gear, and then since your speed is high, you skip a gear and go either 2 or 3 up. This is very very bad on your synchros but few people are actually aware of this. If you do it or have done it, please vote. I'd like to know how many people are unaware this is a bad practice.
    Last edited by TURBO2GO; 09-12-2012 at 07:22.
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    NSXPrime Gold blue_myriddn's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I am still a padawan

    2001 New Formula Red/Tan NSX-T, member NSXCA

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    NSXPrime Gold Brooklynzson's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    Explanations:

    Heel and toe: using heel of our foot to blip the throttle to rev match the engine to transmission speed when going into a corner. Toes are on the brake pedal, left foot is on the clutch. Right foot operating brake and gas at the same time just like they teach you at the DMV.

    Double clutch example: going from 1-2, you press clutch, go to neutral, let out the clutch, press the clutch back in, go to second, let off the clutch. Each up shift requires 2 press and releases of the clutch pedal.

    Skip shift: you accelerate hard at times in one gear, and then since your speed is high, you skip a gear and go either 2 or 3 up. This is very very bad on your synchros but few people are actually aware of this. If you do it or have done it, please vote. I'd like to know how many people are unaware this is a bad practice.
    I do skip shift, but I dont accelerate hard, I just get it up in a normal rpm range to where I know the gear I'm skipping too wont bog the car. I do 1-3-5, is it really bad?


    I do both types of rev matching too. Double clutching is just a waste of time imo
    Last edited by Brooklynzson; 09-12-2012 at 07:27.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    Skip shift: you accelerate hard at times in one gear, and then since your speed is high, you skip a gear and go either 2 or 3 up. This is very very bad on your synchros but few people are actually aware of this. If you do it or have done it, please vote. I'd like to know how many people are unaware this is a bad practice.
    Interesting. Do you have any data to back up this claim?
    1992 Berlina Black NSX

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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by ekhonda87 View Post
    Interesting. Do you have any data to back up this claim?
    Yes. A Technical Service Bulletin from Acura. I posted it before. Their exact wording was "skip shifting is BRUTAL on the synchros". Trust me, you are not the only one to do it. Few people know it is bad.
    Last edited by TURBO2GO; 09-12-2012 at 07:45.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I don't believe double clutching to be a wate of time either. I read all the technical data and it seemed quite worthwhile to do. Perhaps someone with greater depth of knowledge on this can give an explanation. My car certainly seems to shift smoother with double clutching versus not.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_myriddn View Post
    i am still a padawan

    lmao...
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Whenever I shift I only release the throttle by 25-50% just so it's enough for the next gear, most of my shifts are very smooth. Sometimes when I don't do it properly the car let's me know about a "bad last few shifts" sondrome as I call it .
    2004 Silverstone

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    Re: How do you drive?

    I push in the clutch, change gear, and let the clutch back out. The only time I try to rev match is downshifting, usually from 3rd to 2nd, at a speed that'll have the engine revved up.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by heySkippy View Post
    I push in the clutch, change gear, and let the clutch back out. The only time I try to rev match is downshifting, usually from 3rd to 2nd, at a speed that'll have the engine revved up.
    same here, though i have rev matched in more than just 3-2. and typically merging or passing on the highway

    Heel-toe will be after i practice more on other sticks... not my own
    Last edited by arista5; 09-12-2012 at 08:29.

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    Re: How do you drive?

    I normally will revmatch to save on the syncros, mostly with 4>3 and 3>2. It's funny how it has became second nature over the past few years. If I consciously think about performing the action then I screw it up.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I rev match when my right foot isn't busy braking. I heel/toe when it is.

    I skip shift but not really. I will shift through the "skipped" gears but without releasing the clutch. Don't know where I got that habit. Is it as bad as true skip-shifting? I have read warnings against the practice on various car fan web sites.

    [EDIT] OK...after reading up on the details of why skip shifting may put extra strain on the synchros a couple things are clear. My tripping through the extra gears without releasing the clutch probably isn't any better since the same underlying issue still exists...i.e. a larger difference between the speed of the input shaft and the main shaft. But the extra shifts do give the main shaft more time to slow down. Which brings me to my second point. Skip shifting isn't really all that "brutal" if the shifting is all being done at lower RPM and is done in a slower, more deliberate fashion. [/EDIT]

    Corvettes practically force you into a 2-5 skip shift so they can produce decent epa fuel economy numbers. I wonder why that isn't "brutal" on the synchros.
    Last edited by tof; 09-12-2012 at 09:58.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I heel and toe out of muscle memory nowadays and rev match if for some reason I feel the need to accelerate without having to brake.

    I can not remember ever "skip(ing) gears" though seems strange to me.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I skip shift at least a couple of times when I drive, especially if I speed up in 3rd or 4th from say 40 - 70, then drop it into 5th or 6th while RPMS are high enough to sustain the shift. The same goes for speeding down though. I almost never go from 6-5-4-3-2-1. If I am exiting off the freeway at 70mph with an upcoming stop sign or traffic light, I might drop down to 5 first, but then depending on how fast I am deccelerating, I will drop it into 3rd or 2nd, but usually after plopping it into 'N' for the majority of the slow down process. I do the same thing on just about every rolling turn. 'N' first, then either 1st or 2nd depending on my speed when I turn.

    Not sure how harmful this practice really is under normal driving conditions. I am sure its bad at the track, but I'm not a trackstar. In theory this shouldnt screw up your syncros at all as long as the RPMs are at a high enough spool to sustain the shift.
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    Charter Gold dquarasr2's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I rev match every downshift, whether I need to heel-toe or not (whether I'm actually on the brakes or not).

    I never power-upshift (you know, "no lift" shift). Always lift-throttle to upshift.

    On coming to a full stop, say, at a traffic light, I wait for RPMs to drop to idle speed then push the shift lever out of gear to neutral, not using the clutch to do so. I will often then double-clutch before engaging first gear.

    I've never blown up a tranny or worn out a clutch in any manual-shift car I've ever had (1,000,000 miles across 38 years), even in cars I've gone to 130,000 miles with. Hell, I've never even had a synchro go bad.

    Mazdas, Fords, Acura, never had any kind of tranny problem.
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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    I skip shift at least a couple of times when I drive, especially if I speed up in 3rd or 4th from say 40 - 70, then drop it into 5th or 6th while RPMS are high enough to sustain the shift. The same goes for speeding down though. I almost never go from 6-5-4-3-2-1. If I am exiting off the freeway at 70mph with an upcoming stop sign or traffic light, I might drop down to 5 first, but then depending on how fast I am deccelerating, I will drop it into 3rd or 2nd, but usually after plopping it into 'N' for the majority of the slow down process. I do the same thing on just about every rolling turn. 'N' first, then either 1st or 2nd depending on my speed when I turn.

    Not sure how harmful this practice really is under normal driving conditions. I am sure its bad at the track, but I'm not a trackstar. In theory this shouldnt screw up your syncros at all as long as the RPMs are at a high enough spool to sustain the shift.
    Teej I think you are doing some harm. It's not just about the RPMs. Any skip shift MUST BE DONE with a double clutch or double de-clutch. I'd seriously not do that anymore.
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    Charter Hero docjohn's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    If you really want to have some laughs try left foot braking,and if you are yoda,..shift with your left hand you will.....

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    I'd like to see some hard documentation that supports the degree of harm skip shifting has done under varied driving conditions as I can find little to support this claim so far. I have found many forums in which other vehicles owners have gone back and forth about this, including a Honda bulletin about specifically the S2000 and issues with skip shifting.

    I'm not saying its not bad to do, I am just curious to what degree it may cause harm. People put 87 octane into vehicles manufactured for 91+ all the time to save pennies on the dollar. For everyone that changes their oil more often than needed, there are people that drive way too long before changing their oil.

    So to circle back, just how bad is skip shifting and to what degree?

    It's not going to kill me to stop it now that I am conscious of it. Either that or double clutch on the few times that I actually do skip shift. But I'd be willing to bet that 90% of manual owners of all makes and models do it or have done it.

    And by the way, what about when I slow down coming off the freeway? Going from a higher gear into Neutral, then pushing in the clutch and popping it into the appropriate gear based on the point where I need to get moving again...harmful or no? I've always done this, but like skip shifting upwards, clueless about the real affect it has.
    Last edited by Teej; 09-12-2012 at 16:38.
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    Registered User latzke's Avatar
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    Re: How do you drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    I'd like to see some hard documentation that supports the degree of harm skip shifting has done under varied driving conditions as I can find little to support this claim so far. I have found many forums in which other vehicles owners have gone back and forth about this, including a Honda bulletin about specifically the S2000 and issues with skip shifting.
    I think it would be bad if you were too fast or too slow about it...but not bad if revs were matched when the gear was engaged.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    As someone mentioned earlier, GM cars have had a forced skip shift on their manuals for a long time in order to save gas. My 94 Formula Firebird had a 1-4 skip shift. If you do not accelerate quick enough or rev high enough, the gate will force you into 4th from 1st. It was annoying, but eventually you get used to it. I beat the piss out of that manual, I was young when I had the car, but it kept on truckin' for 50k miles with no issues. Maybe it fell out of the car on the next owner?

    I really can't see the occasional skip shifts damaging synchros unless you are dumping from 8000 rpm to 2000 regularly. These transmissions hold up to 400+ whp, and are made to last 100k+ miles with heavy usage. And really, I think I'm being conservative.
    Last edited by Caustic; 09-12-2012 at 22:50.
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I double-clutch only when downshifting from 2-1. For example, when turning from a street into a parking lot driveway, at maybe 15 mph, I will double clutch down to 1st gear and rev match to save a little wear on the synchro. (5-speed).

  24. #24
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    Re: How do you drive?

    So you guys that skip shift, think Acura is being overly sensitive sending out a TSB to dealers telling their customers not to? Whether its a lot or a little, some extra wear is occurring. If you simply double clutch, you save that wear. Why not do it?
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    Re: How do you drive?

    I sometimes skip shift from 2nd to 3rd just because the syncros are already messed up between those. If the syncros were good I probably would never skip shift like I normally do.
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