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Thread: Supreme courts ruling on gay marriage

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    Thumbs up Supreme courts ruling on gay marriage

    Hello everyone,
    I guess I am the first to post here, and no this is not a hate speech. It's a post about why no one has posted this yet. The ruling on Friday was a milestone in humanity and shows how far we have come as people in this century. I for one think it is awesome. The American people are the innovators, we are the creators, we set trends, and others follow. I think it is wonderful that all people of race, creed, sex are to be treated as equals.
    I live near San Francisco, so this is nothing new, but to have marriage official for all is just icing on the cake for all people. To note, I especially loved how the great people of South Carolina came together in their state despite racial tension and divide the past few weeks as well. It is an unprecedented time in politics these days and it is just a joy to see people overcome all odds and hate to prove themselves better than their predecessors. It is a Great Wall that has been broken down piece by piece. It reminds me of the Berlin Wall in the 80's. What a great time to live in America!
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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    I never could figure out what it was of other peoples' business anyway if two gay people wanted to get married. No one forced me to marry them, no one forced me to be at their wedding, or even to approve if it. So why is it my business at all? It should have been legal long ago as far as I'm concerned. In another 20 years the ban will seem as backwards as any other form of discrimination like not allowing black people to vote.
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    NSXPrime Gold Jinks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    I never could figure out what it was of other peoples' business anyway if two gay people wanted to get married. No one forced me to marry them, no one forced me to be at their wedding, or even to approve if it. So why is it my business at all? It should have been legal long ago as far as I'm concerned. In another 20 years the ban will seem as backwards as any other form of discrimination like not allowing black people to vote.
    Agreed.... I could go on for hours about this but I will restrain myself. It has been a great weekend! Especially the weekend prior to our countries birthday!!!!!!
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    Agreed. Lots of positive rulings coming from the supreme court these days.
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    You begin by saying the American people are the innovators, the creators -- we lead and others follow. But in this case it is the Court that is trying to shape the opinion of the people, not the other way around. The Court, by ignoring the will of the people as expressed in over half the states, are trying to artificially push the culture in the direction they see as desirable. In fact, this is the only way gays have pushed their agenda -- through the courts, because they could never get it through the old-fashioned way, through legislation. The people have too much control over the legislators, and virtually no control over SCOTUS; which is why brave souls like senator Ted Cruz are proposing that SCOTUS justices be subjext to retention votes.

    You also mention the South Carolina shooting at a black church, which brings me to another very important point: for decades, gay activists have pushed the false claim that being gay is identical to being black. This is not only false, but an incredible insult to black people, whose ancestors were kidnapped and forcibly brought here as slaves. While it's true that too many blacks are attached to their identity as victims, it's also true that they have a far greater claim to victim status than gays do. Gays claim they have endured centuries of oppression by being forced into the closet. Boo-hoo, cry me a river; the poor babies say they've had to hide who they are. Well, guess what, blacks didn't have the luxury of hiding who they were. Since being black is an objective and identifiable trait, blacks were moving targets; there was no escape from the discrimination they endured. Gay people can pretend to be straight; heck, I can pretend to be gay and lie about my sexual orientation. Blacks have no such luxury. Gay marriage may be a bridge too far for the black community. Black pastors are already talking about civil disobedience and are willing to go to jail to call attention to the issue.

    And last but not least, the Left likes to wax eloquent about diversity. Well, what about diversity of opinion on this issue? Leaving the issue to the states would have allowed this diversity to continue, and would have left room for diverse people to coexist peacefully in civil society. And btw, the Court's power to bend the culture to its will is clearly limited. Abortion is a great example. Forty years after Roe v. Wade we're still fighting over the issue; and today more people are pro-life than ever.

    When the Court overreaches, as they did last week, they are risking a greater backlash. The courts are the weakest branch of government, and Congress has the power to regulate them under Article III, Section 2. It's time for some court-stripping; let Congress limit the reach of the federal judiciary and decide just exactly what kind of cases the federal courts, including SCOTUS, can actually hear.
    Last edited by MoreRPMs; 06-29-2015 at 18:40.

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    Charter Champion Kyras's Avatar
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    I'm proud of the decision made by the United States Supreme Court in favor of gay marriage.
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    NSXPrime Gold Jinks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoreRPMs View Post
    You begin by saying the American people are the innovators, the creators -- we lead and others follow. But in this case it is the Court that is trying to shape the opinion of the people, not the other way around. The Court, by ignoring the will of the people as expressed in over half the states, are trying to artificially push the culture in the direction they see as desirable. In fact, this is the only way gays have pushed their agenda -- through the courts, because they could never get it through the old-fashioned way, through legislation. The people have too much control over the legislators, and virtually no control over SCOTUS; which is why brave souls like senator Ted Cruz are proposing that SCOTUS justices be subjext to retention votes.

    You also mention the South Carolina shooting at a black church, which brings me to another very important point: for decades, gay activists have pushed the false claim that being gay is identical to being black. This is not only false, but an incredible insult to black people, whose ancestors were kidnapped and forcibly brought here as slaves. While it's true that too many blacks are attached to their identity as victims, it's also true that they have a far greater claim to victim status than gays do. Gays claim they have endured centuries of oppression by being forced into the closet. Boo-hoo, cry me a river; the poor babies say they've had to hide who they are. Well, guess what, blacks didn't have the luxury of hiding who they were. Since being black is an objective and identifiable trait, blacks were moving targets; there was no escape from the discrimination they endured. Gay people can pretend to be straight; heck, I can pretend to be gay and lie about my sexual orientation. Blacks have no such luxury. Gay marriage may be a bridge too far for the black community. Black pastors are already talking about civil disobedience and are willing to go to jail to call attention to the issue.

    And last but not least, the Left likes to wax eloquent about diversity. Well, what about diversity of opinion on this issue? Leaving the issue to the states would have allowed this diversity to continue, and would have left room for diverse people to coexist peacefully in civil society. And btw, the Court's power to bend the culture to its will is clearly limited. Abortion is a great example. Forty years after Roe v. Wade we're still fighting over the issue; and today more people are pro-life than ever.

    When the Court overreaches, as they did last week, they are risking a greater backlash. The courts are the weakest branch of government, and Congress has the power to regulate them under Article III, Section 2. It's time for some court-stripping; let Congress limit the reach of the federal judiciary and decide just exactly what kind of cases the federal courts, including SCOTUS, can actually hear.
    You sound really mad bro? So basically you are saying since someone like Abraham Lincoln went against people's votes to end slavery he was wrong? Because people didn't vote on that either. Nor did the German people vote to end hittlers rule.It is the right thing to do. People are people. But it's cool man, you have a different view. Maybe you just need a gay friend to give you real facts and not listen to Fox News.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would also like to say here, I respect the moderators ruling on keeping things out of politics. This post was to commemorate breaking news and freedom of people. If anyone here is to disagree with me, please I/M me as I respect rules and I am trying to keep this clean here. Unless of course we can keep things civilized. Thank you all.
    Last edited by Jinks; 06-29-2015 at 21:02.
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    NSXPrime Gold clean_green's Avatar
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    When this argument arises. i always defuse the situation by quoting that great American philosopher, Howard Stern.

    "I firmly believe that gay people have every right to be just as miserable as the rest of us!"

    Works every time

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    For discussion purposes the other side argues.. The country was moving in the direction of Gay marriage and that momentum was curtailed, and the constitution took a hit, similar to what happened with Roe v Wade.. Here's Ruth Bader Ginsburg on why Roe was not a great decision..

    “My criticism of Roe is that it seemed to have stopped the momentum on the side of change,” Ginsburg said. She would’ve preferred that abortion rights be secured more gradually, in a process that included state legislatures and the courts, she added. Ginsburg also was troubled that the focus on Roe was on a right to privacy, rather than women’s rights."

    Now you get a similar statement from the Chief Justice who dissented on this gay marriage vote saying..

    "Supporters of same-sex marriage have achieved considerable success persuading their fellow citizens—through the democratic process—to adopt their view. That ends today," Roberts wrote. "Stealing this issue from the people will for many cast a cloud over same-sex marriage, making a dramatic social change that much more difficult to accept."

    In many peoples opinion, even people that want gay marriage to be achieved through the legislature it was a dark day for America constitutionally. If you just want gay marriage ignoring everything else then you may be in the majority but you may be wrong.

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    Charter Hero docjohn's Avatar
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    the age old dilemmas of society.....the will of the few vs that of the many...does granting the will of the few actually detract from the many.......and finally I am worried that the supreme court is overstepping or stretching their constitutional authority and becoming more political...they are a smart but weird small group.
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    Registered User BATMANs's Avatar
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    I'm waiting for them to allow homo sapiens to marry animals.... I mean Adam was hooking up with animals in Eden before he started to hook up with his own rib called Eve.
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    A few corrections of errors in statements of fact above...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinks View Post
    The American people are the innovators, we are the creators, we set trends, and others follow.
    Not in this case. The United States was the 18th country to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide. "Same-sex marriage became legal nationwide in the Netherlands (2001), Belgium (2003), Spain (2005), Canada (2005), South Africa (2006), Norway (2009), Sweden (2009), Portugal (2010), Iceland (2010), Argentina (2010), Denmark (2012), Brazil (2013), France (2013), Uruguay (2013), New Zealand (2013), the United Kingdom (2014), Luxembourg (2015) and the United States (2015)." - per Wikipedia.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreRPMs View Post
    In fact, this is the only way gays have pushed their agenda -- through the courts, because they could never get it through the old-fashioned way, through legislation.
    Not true. Prior to the Supreme Court ruling, same-sex marriage had been legalized through legislation and referenda in 11 states and the District of Columbia. (Per Chief Justice John Roberts, as reported here.)
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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    The will of the few versus the many results in a democracy where 3 wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner. The job of the court is to represent justice. Not the will of the people. The will of the people throughout history has often landed on the wrong side of history. The question was, is it ok for heterosexuals to deny marriage to homosexuals. That answer has turned out to be no.
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    very nice civil discussion so far.....we are really just discussing the legal definition of marriage
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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    If we are going to ban gay people from being married then we should also ban NSX owners from extreme camber and stance.

    Turns out.... We can't... Apparently we have to let others do what they want. Even if we don't like it.
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    ...........your stance on the issue is defined by your willingness to organize group buys...
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    Lol
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    Lol
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    It will be interesting a few years from now when lawsuits arise in which multiple people are trying to marry. Especially where it is say a father to his adult son and daughter for example. It would be a beneficial contract in some cases where large estates are involved. The marriage would reduce the tax burden in the case of the death of the father as he passes his estate to his children. The death tax in large family farms and professional sports franchises often prove to be too much to bear for the surviving unmarried (to the estate owner) family members (children). It doesn't seem that the current SCOTUS ruling could allow for the exclusion of ANY willing adults to be married--i.e. if equal protection is sited as the change.

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    NSXPrime Gold Jinks's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=nsxtasy;1858124]A few corrections of errors in statements of fact above...


    Not in this case. The United States was the 18th country to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide. "Same-sex marriage became legal nationwide in the Netherlands (2001), Belgium (2003), Spain (2005), Canada (2005), South Africa (2006), Norway (2009), Sweden (2009), Portugal (2010), Iceland (2010), Argentina (2010), Denmark (2012), Brazil (2013), France (2013), Uruguay (2013), New Zealand (2013), the United Kingdom (2014), Luxembourg (2015) and the United States (2015)." - per Wikipedia.

    Yes I was aware of that. But thank you for making others aware too. As being innovators and creators was more so a comment towards leadership of taking one thing and making it spread like wildfire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinks View Post
    You sound really mad bro? So basically you are saying since someone like Abraham Lincoln went against people's votes to end slavery he was wrong? Because people didn't vote on that either. Nor did the German people vote to end hittlers rule.It is the right thing to do. People are people. But it's cool man, you have a different view. Maybe you just need a gay friend to give you real facts and not listen to Fox News.
    First of all, your last statement I have to say is quite the juvenile response. You might want to investigate why we have a Constitution and what it means, then proceed to engage in a worthy discussion rather than hurl inane comments.

    Re: your ending slavery question -- you do know that's what the civil war was about, right? Do you want to spill blood fighting over gay marriage? Also, gay marriage has nothing to do with individual rights; it has to do with whether a state should be forced to broaden its definition of marriage.

    I think Rand Paul's solution of keeping the state out of marriage entirely, and just make it a private ceremony with no state marriage licenses seems like a fair compromise. That way religious liberty is still protected.

    And speaking of freedom, do you support freedom for the business owners who don't want to participate in same-sex marriages, or does their freedom not matter? To me the Left seems to only care about sexual freedom, and not any other freedom. Care to prove me wrong?

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    Charter Hero docjohn's Avatar
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    ................on that note will we see law suits against the RC church to allow same sex ceremonies?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsxtasy View Post
    A few corrections of errors in statements of fact above...
    Not true. Prior to the Supreme Court ruling, same-sex marriage had been legalized through legislation and referenda in 11 states and the District of Columbia. (Per Chief Justice John Roberts, as reported here.)
    In your partial quote you conveniently failed to utilize my previous sentence : The Court, by ignoring the will of the people as expressed in over half the states, are trying to artificially push the culture in the direction they see as desirable. You do realize that 11 out of 50 does not signify "the will of the people"?

    By the way, for those who wish to be enlightened a bit more there's a free podcast I listen to from time to time, and tonight's topic happens to be same-sex marriage. I hope it's okay I post the link here : http://www.blogtalkradio.com/andrecontroversa
    It airs tonight at 9 CT, so sorry for the short notice.

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    NSXPrime Gold Jinks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoreRPMs View Post
    First of all, your last statement I have to say is quite the juvenile response. You might want to investigate why we have a Constitution and what it means, then proceed to engage in a worthy discussion rather than hurl inane comments.

    Re: your ending slavery question -- you do know that's what the civil war was about, right? Do you want to spill blood fighting over gay marriage? Also, gay marriage has nothing to do with individual rights; it has to do with whether a state should be forced to broaden its definition of marriage.

    I think Rand Paul's solution of keeping the state out of marriage entirely, and just make it a private ceremony with no state marriage licenses seems like a fair compromise. That way religious liberty is still protected.

    And speaking of freedom, do you support freedom for the business owners who don't want to participate in same-sex marriages, or does their freedom not matter? To me the Left seems to only care about sexual freedom, and not any other freedom. Care to prove me wrong?
    You are making me laugh man. I'm not letting your comments get to me. I am listening though. You keep on saying and making assumptions that I am a some sort of lefty liberal when in fact I am a republican and a blue collar redneckish guy who supports republican parties except for the fact that they keep shooting off their own feet with hatred towards the very own people who may place votes on them. They are all old, dying, and no one cares of their views anymore.
    The constitution created the Supreme Court bud. So maybe you should follow up on what it means?
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    In all honesty I will need to study up on the rules of state law vs federal laws.....we can blabber about our own feelings till our fingers bleed...but the judicial process is complicated
    96 with an 00 3.2L motor and 5 speed/shorties/4.23r&p....because Dave said so....

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