Intercooled CSTC?

[DrVolkl]

So, where are we with this? There was a decent thread about it, but it sorta ended.

Anything out there that we can get our hands on? It sounded like some of you guys were close to producing some decent intercoolers....

????

 

[Chris NSX]

I was think about adding a after-cooler to my Autorotor SC. I am not sure yet.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103729

 

[JeffShoots]

Shad had a few left last time I was at the shop. Give him a call or send your car to him. He has a good IC, Res, and pump he's using too he could recommend.

 

[omega2]

The SOS website has an article that mentions they modified a CT engineering supercharger with an intercooler. It may be the same intercooler. Either way, I am sure someone will develop a complete intercooler kit eventually.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Shad's is just the core, you need to buy it and then build a kit. I think SOS is working on a kit based on Shad's core? Maybe Chris or Shad can chime in.

 

[DrVolkl]

Yeah, it looks decent...but there's parts in there where "you need to fabricate xxx" that obviously someone like myself is going to have problems with.

It would be nice to see something hit the market. Would be a good safe horsepower bonus.

 

[RON98]

put in a water injection kit.

does the same thing.

 

[TURBO2GO]

put in a water injection kit.

does the same thing.

Well, not exactly. You have to keep filling a bottle. But I get your point. What do you recommend?

 

[warren1205]

meth injection does not cool ait, it cools the explosion...

 

[JeffShoots]

Yeah, it looks decent...but there's parts in there where "you need to fabricate xxx" that obviously someone like myself is going to have problems with.

It would be nice to see something hit the market. Would be a good safe horsepower bonus.

I hear the STMPO guys are working on a kit.
How many people are REALY interested?
Few things to think about.
The cooler will raise the intake ~1.5" so no engine cover and the T-Tops will have to modify or out with the rear brace.
You need a ~3 inch longer SC belt and run 2 ~10AN lines under the car in the center channel to a reservoir (like a 1 Gal fuel tank) mounted were you had a spear tire. Then use a pusher type pump to the IC from summit (hi volume fuel pump) and summit also has a good sized IC.

Check out Scorps Thread for how he cooled his turbo: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87035&page=4

 

[DrivingAmbition]

Hi Guys,
We are working on what parts are need for a more complete kit (pump, tank, hoses, clamps, etc). We should have something done just before NSXPO. Cheers, Shad

 

[jdnsx]

Shad helped me tremendously when I was going through the design process and I love the results. If the Driving Ambition core would have been available at the time I would have been the first customer.

It is not that hard to run the water lines IF your fuel tank is out anyway for a larger fuel pump.

I am seeing 9-10 lbs of boost at 3000-4000 rpm and it falls to 8.4 at redline and temps ~ 120. The power and throttle response is extreme compared to the stock Comptech.

The comparison has been brought up many times that a turbo will net more HP for the same cost and effort. I think this thought process is very one dimensional. I simply did not want a turbo but wanted the most from the Whipple and I did not want to build my motor at this time. I am more than happy with the results.

I think a turbo NSX at 9-10 lbs would be slightly faster than mine because the charger robs 50 lb ft of torque.

The only thing I would change on mine would be the size of the charger to see if I could hold 10 lbs of boost all the way to redline. Shad's cooler is less restrictive than my design so I might be able to gain some boost with a cooler swap.:wink:

 

[BATMANs]

Well, not exactly. You have to keep filling a bottle. But I get your point. What do you recommend?

And water injection is more for detonation prevention (for a ghetto tune).

Water cooled intercooler > air cooled ones.

 

[C-speed]

And water injection is more for detonation prevention (for a ghetto tune).

Huh? Isn't that the exact point for using it? There is nothing 'ghetto' about water/meth injection. A lot pro teams in all forms of racing use it. Drag, circuit, hill climb, rally, etc...

Water cooled intercooler > air cooled ones.

Again, not true. Depends soly on the application.

 

[RON98]

meth injection does not cool ait, it cools the explosion...

lol bet your behind it cools the iat.

i see 20-30F drop on the AEM data log with heat soaked intercooler.

only thing that was acturally cooling was the meth/water:wink:

every forum im on, there seem to be a lack of understanding for water injection.

 

[RON98]

And water injection is more for detonation prevention (for a ghetto tune).

Water cooled intercooler > air cooled ones.

everything we do in tuning, engine building, anything performance IS DETONATION PREVENTION.

DP Is the name of the game.

you can have a ghetto tune or the best tune in the world. the fact is water/meth will lower iat temps, increase octane ( just water alone wil increase "octane"), cooler cylinder temp, de carbon the engine and exhaust which resolves in less carbon induced knock, lower compression due to carbon removal and less exhaust back presassure due to cleaner exhaust system.

spraying water on the intercooler works but is less efficent then putting it in the intake stream.

Water cooled intercooler > air cooled ones.

also this statement above is bogus. :biggrin: in my case, 1st to 4th gear pull on my car. by the end of the first gear, my intercooler is 100% heat soaked, what keeps my car going through the other 3 gears is the water/meth injection.

from the datalog, even with the IC completely heat soaked, the injection was able to keep my iat sensor readings BELOW idle temps by the end of the pull.

start out at 90'f drops to 70'f once the injection kicks in and in the time span of 4 gears the iat does not rise above 90'f. intake manifold is very cool to the touch. c if your intercooler can do that. personally if it was a choice between an intercooler or water injection... i would probably go water injection.

pretty fn amazing and effective if you ask me.

anyways, bottom line. running 29 psi on a stock 3sgte motor on a gt30 and completely heat soaked intercooler. pretty sweet.

i have also run the car in 100'F mid noon high boost pulls just for giggles.

car does great

 

[RON98]

Well, not exactly. You have to keep filling a bottle. But I get your point. What do you recommend?

the kit im running right now is coolingmist 200$ kit.

it comes complete for install. all you need to supply is the water jug.... i use a 1 gallon windshield washer bottle and i keep 2-3 extra in the car so i can switch out easy.

coolingmist has a pump that can take 100% meth. not a lot of kits can support 100% meth,

its 200$, nothing fanny. works great. instakk takes about 30 minutes-2hours depending on the car. on the nsx if you install on the intake tube... i tiwll be a breeze

pump is boost acctivated and the kit comes iwth a boost sensor.

you dont even need to tune the car, if your just running water.

im running a 14 gallon / hour nozzel on my 4 cylinder car.... which is perfect since i was doing 29psi on a stock 3sgte motor on a gt30 and a heat soaked itnercooler. :biggrin:

for just a stock application with the SC for detonation prevention, i would recommend a 6-8gph sprayer.

install is a breeze, defintly a good dyi project.

excuse the spelling, i dont have my contacts in and everything is a blur.:wink:

 

[The Kid]

Hi Guys,
We are working on what parts are need for a more complete kit (pump, tank, hoses, clamps, etc). We should have something done just before NSXPO. Cheers, Shad

Im in, Im probably going to the AEM/hi-boost setup this winter and would like the added insurance. Just wish I had a competent installer/tuner in NJ:frown:

 

[Lonestranger]

Hi Guys,
We are working on what parts are need for a more complete kit (pump, tank, hoses, clamps, etc). We should have something done just before NSXPO. Cheers, Shad

I'll also definitely be watching and ah waitin!!:biggrin:

 

[BATMANs]

Water molecules are denser than air.

Heat transfer by the following:

radiation
convection
conduction

A good water cooled intercooler should be superior to a air-to-air IC.

what's colder? Standing in 60 degrees water or 60 degrees of ambient air?

If air cooled IC is so good, then why did Porsche switch from air cooled to water cooled engines?

Why are the rest of auto makers running water cooled engines?

perhaps the NSX should have been an air cooled engine.

 

[RON98]

Im in, Im probably going to the AEM/hi-boost setup this winter and would like the added insurance. Just wish I had a competent installer/tuner in NJ:frown:

KID!

install this yourself. great for dyi.

honestly takes about 30 minutes esp if you pipe directly into the intake tube between the throttle body and air box.

there are only 3! connectons you need to make

12volt to the boost switch
12volt from boost switch to pump
ground from pump to chassie. thats it.

http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmain.aspx?pid=Cool150

mount a water tank in the trunk.... use the ecu wire harness hole to pull out the water feed to the nozzle and your finished! oh forgot the boost reference line from the manifold. im sure you all have a boost gauge, you can just T off that line.

set the boost switch to kick in about 2 psi before when you wanted to turn on.

so lets say you want water kick in at 8psi. set it up 5-6psi so the pump primes and for 2psi.

its easy

 

[RON98]

Water molecules are denser than air.

Heat transfer by the following:

radiation
convection
conduction

A good water cooled intercooler should be superior to a air-to-air IC.

what's colder? Standing in 60 degrees water or 60 degrees of ambient air?

If air cooled IC is so good, then why did Porsche switch from air cooled to water cooled engines?

Why are the rest of auto makers running water cooled engines?

perhaps the NSX should have been an air cooled engine.

which post are you responding too?:wink: or just putting up the info for us.

thx!

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

I hear the STMPO guys are working on a kit.
How many people are REALY interested?
Few things to think about.
The cooler will raise the intake ~1.5" so no engine cover and the T-Tops will have to modify or out with the rear brace.
You need a ~3 inch longer SC belt and run 2 ~10AN lines under the car in the center channel to a reservoir (like a 1 Gal fuel tank) mounted were you had a spear tire. Then use a pusher type pump to the IC from summit (hi volume fuel pump) and summit also has a good sized IC.

Check out Scorps Thread for how he cooled his turbo: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87035&page=4

Yes we have done some research on the IAT cooling for the CSTC... In the past I had made a water to air for a paxton 2k kit for the nsx and it worked great..tight fit but it worked great.

JeffShoots makes a good point here. (above)

As for the comptech theres not really much room to work with seeing that the charger sit right on top the intake. So having a water to air "big" enough to cool the charge air for that style kit, well there's just no room. Expecially when most people want to keep there engine cover.

Ive seen many pics of Shad's set up and its very nice work, but for a water to air to be sitting in between two hot objects, I just dont see it working well for a long period of running time. Meaning, if your running your car round and round on the track, how is it possible for the water to be cooled off by outside (air) temp, when the heat from the charger and engine its self is heat soaking the hell out of the core? Not to mention most cities average about 90deg? temps out side. So you have 90deg weather cooling off what, 300deg engine heat aswell? Not to mention, what happens when your daily driving your car? Not seeing a big advantage here..And not saying it doesnt work, just saying for the time and core size for the set up, I dont see it working aswell as it should for the money...

I've done a similar set up for the GruppeM kit and it helpped, but not enough to be satisfied. Using a core from bell intercoolers, 9x6.50x10, half inch lines, flow jet pump, and nice size exchanger in the front, only brought the temps down 20-30deg if i remember correctly...The roots style just puts out to much heat. Turbo is the best for power adding options IMO.

I think adding alcohol to this kit would improve its temps dramatically.
Never got that far cause we ditched the charger for turbo.

On my turbo car with a slight smaller core makes 525whp @ 18psi (35R turbo) with IAT's of 78deg, the water to air works great for that set up. Will be building one to handle 1000whp soon!...Note this is on a 4cyl 2.0L honda motor.

And water injection is more for detonation prevention (for a ghetto tune).

Water cooled intercooler > air cooled ones.

I disagree here ^. Water injection works just like an intercooler or water to air etc.
Your just cooling the charge air in a different way. All three are preventing detonation. Cooler air = more power, so how ever you can get the air cooled by means do it!!
Ive done alcohol kits in the past and they work great! just dont run out under full pedal!! hahaha
The only benefit you have to air to air is, less hastle, less parts. Its a set and for get type of deal.....

I dunno.....my .02cents.

 

[ken sampson]

I just wanted to add here there is room to put a very large cooler you need a new Intake manifold. My 2.3L whipple is at the same height as a Comptech SC and uses a 4" x 4" x 13" cooler in the intake.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90136

 

[BATMANs]

Part of the reason why water injection helps in reducing detonation is that it's pretty effective in cleaning out the carbon in the combustion chamber.

Carbon has mass, and mass in the combustion chamber will raise the compression ratio slightly. Since nothing else changes in A/F/ ratio that can mean a greater compression ratio than what the powerplant was designed for and/or tuning.