fastaussie
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Who knows the sales numbers for R8's?
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2nd Generation R8 vs NSX
- Thread starter BB
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Audi already has over 21,000 R8s sold globally since 2007-2012. I couldn't find figures for 13-14. They've been averaging 3,500ish cars per year with almost 25% (~850) going to the US, so I imagine they are close to 30K units sold by now...
The Gallardo for instance averaged a little over a thousand units per year and sold barely 14K units in 10 years.
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Correction 14K for 11 years. The NSX sold ~18K for 15 years, so the NSX is actually slightly rarer than the Gallardo on a yearly basis.
The Gallardo for instance averaged a little over a thousand units per year and sold barely 14K units in 10 years.
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Correction 14K for 11 years. The NSX sold ~18K for 15 years, so the NSX is actually slightly rarer than the Gallardo on a yearly basis.
fastaussie
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30,000 R8's in 8 years is a very successful run, certainly much more successful than the original NSX ever was, with almost twice as many cars sold in roughly half the time. and right through the global recession at that. those are very impressive numbers, and really says it all.
pictures don't really do that car any justice, it looks heaps better and plenty exotic in person. it's low, muscular and wide.
I've just spent the last two days hot lapping in the V8 and V10 versions all weekend at Laguna Seca, they're bloody good cars and the new one will definitely be even better...
pictures don't really do that car any justice, it looks heaps better and plenty exotic in person. it's low, muscular and wide.
I've just spent the last two days hot lapping in the V8 and V10 versions all weekend at Laguna Seca, they're bloody good cars and the new one will definitely be even better...
I don't doubt the new one will be better, but it still doesn't look that impressive/awe inspiring to me. I've seen and experienced it in person. It's not my cup of tea. From far away when it rides up on you, at first glance you would have just guessed it was just a regular TT or 350Z. Unless you hear the exhaust coming before seeing it.
Also success and exclusivity are two different things. I would never want the NSX to be as diluted in numbers as the R8. This is one of the reasons the R8 will never be considered a true exotic. It's closer to 911 supercar status versus exotic exclusivity.
Have had two NSXes and two R8s. Audi never intended the R8 to be an "exotic". It is exactly what it was meant to be: a perfect combination of high performance, technology, stellar good looks, and practicality. Much like the original NSX was meant to be in fact. The fact that the R8 has been far more successful commercially than the NSX ever was should not be ignored by Honda management. Its success is in no small way due to the greater degree of performance and prestige that surrounds a larger proportion of Audi's overall lineup than Honda had when the NA1/NA2 was around, and will likely have when the new NSX is finally released.
In short, the R8 has much more credibility as a supercar offering than the NSX does. It's the same reason the GTR enjoys a cult status but few people truly aspire to own one like they would a Ferrari or Lamborghini. No doubt the more biased amongst you will disagree.
In short, the R8 has much more credibility as a supercar offering than the NSX does. It's the same reason the GTR enjoys a cult status but few people truly aspire to own one like they would a Ferrari or Lamborghini. No doubt the more biased amongst you will disagree.
Are the F355 convertible uber heavy?
So back in 1999 my friend worked for a company that went IPO in 1999. He bought a new 2000 NSX and the CEO bought a F355 convertible with the F1 shifters.
I drove both the NSX and F355 that night (they just handed me the keys without any supervision and told me to give them honest reviews) and got on the cars in a straight line. Off the line, from a roll, etc.
Both cars felt identical in terms of acceleration. It was like splitting hairs.
Of course compared to the 430 RWHP modified FD that I was driving at the time they were very slow feeling cars.
So back in 1999 my friend worked for a company that went IPO in 1999. He bought a new 2000 NSX and the CEO bought a F355 convertible with the F1 shifters.
I drove both the NSX and F355 that night (they just handed me the keys without any supervision and told me to give them honest reviews) and got on the cars in a straight line. Off the line, from a roll, etc.
Both cars felt identical in terms of acceleration. It was like splitting hairs.
Of course compared to the 430 RWHP modified FD that I was driving at the time they were very slow feeling cars.
fastaussie
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come on now, that's a massive stretch saying the R8 looks like a 350Z or a TT. you may want to have you eyes checked?
here in L.A. I can some days see several NSX's about town, more so than R8's. they're certainly not as common as Civics, as you seem to suggest. 911's i would attest to being very common. i would wager to say Porsche sells 10 times as many as Audi does R8's. just curious, do you consider the new (or old) NSX to be an exotic?
well said from a very unbiased opinion...
I've said it before that Audi has the clientele to move into a R8. Acura does not because its not so easy to get a TLX or MDX,RLX owner to jump into a +150k car. Whereas, its much easier to get an owners of RS5,S6,A7,RS7,S7,A/S8 to jump up to a R8.
I don't buy this theory. I know PLENTY of RSX owners looking to upgrade to the new NSX.
Not true.
It's 5 banger Acura Vigor customers looking for an even 6 bangers...
It's 5 banger Acura Vigor customers looking for an even 6 bangers...
lmao
I have better than perfect vision my friend and it's not my fault the R8 looks like a TT on steroids.
The new NSX is more exotic than the R8 by virtue and projected limited quality. Let me know when Audi builds their own specific engine and chassis to build a proper flagship car. We've discussed these subjects already several times. Let's agree to disagree here and let it go. You're not going to change my opinion and vice versa.
fastaussie
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I'd concur with that...
even Audi's non-super high performance models are still of fairly high performance. driving a lot of laps around Laguna in the RS5 alongside the R8, shows how stonking good that car is. so performance and pricewise, there is a clear ladder up through the brand to the flagship R8. what are the options with Acura, the ILX to the NSX?
I'd not concur with that...
you seem really bothered by the fact that the R8 doesn't have its own specific engine and drivetrain. you may have noticed half the Acura line has a 3.5 V6, and several of their models have 9-speed transmissions, and SH-AWD, including Hybrids, etc. in the eye of the average consumer, the NSX powertrain won't be unique in any way from the other Acura models.
technology gets shared, that's good economics. and I haven't heard anyone else besides you complain about this practice. it doesn't bother me any, and it diminishes none of the brilliance of the R8. as far as numbers go, the R8 demolished the old NSX in sales in significantly less time, right through a global recession. the new R8 will be a direct competitor to the new NSX, probably more than any other one car. I really don't think the non-specific R8 engine will make any difference on the showroom floor.
3500 cars a year is half the output of Ferrari. and no one can argue a Ferrari isn't exotic...
+1
Then again both of you agree that the F458 is in your respective bucket lists of a car to own someday
Who knows, maybe someday you will hit the track and become a track junkie and start seeing things a bit more our way
F458 will probably be the last highest HP/Liter NA street legal car in the world ever made.
fastaussie
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I've been at the track for two days straight 2slow, driving RS5's, V8 and V10 R8's. I already see it your way. :wink:
but I can be subjective enough to appreciate other models as well as the NSX, and appreciate their street worthiness additionally to their track prowess...
p.s. the 458 Speciale is still the finest car on the road in my opinion
but I can be subjective enough to appreciate other models as well as the NSX, and appreciate their street worthiness additionally to their track prowess...
p.s. the 458 Speciale is still the finest car on the road in my opinion
Acura or Audi are no more "exotic" than Chevy or BMW. Leave that to the Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, etc. of the world.
I would like Audi to put their bast resources to pedal and build a proper flagship car that shares no components with another car and make one that looks closer to the 918 instead of 911/Beetle shape.
If the 918 was powered by a turbo Boxster engine, would you still consider it a flagship car?
The new NSX doesn't seem to share any powertrain components with any Honda yet. The 75 Degree V6 is unique to the NSX and so are the 9 Speed tranny and mid-engine SH-AWD setup.
I don't automatically give praise to a car because it sold well. The Trans Am and GTO sold better than the NSX, so what's your point? Just let it go. You like the R8 a lot and I think it's OK. You yourself had a chance to buy one and chose the NSX. So who are you trying to convince or argue with here?
And last time I checked, each Ferrari model sells about 8K units in total per generation/model. The 360 had about 8K coupes and 8K spiders sold:
Model - Total - (RHD)
308 = 12,143 (965)
328 = 7,412 (672)
348 = 8,654 (496)
355 = 11,206 (1,384)
360 = 17,800
I can't find exact numbers for the F430 or 458 yet, but it seems to be around the same as the 360 if not slightly less. That's not quite as high as ~30K cars sold like Audi or Porsche is doing on a model life or annual rate respectively... Ferrari knows the right balance of when to stop building a model and make a new one apparently to maintain exotic/exclusive numbers.
I'm glad this was brought up though, as there's an unspoken rule of exclusivity/rarity it seems.
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I never said it was not a serious or a non-worthy competitive car. I just said it doesn't look exciting or exotic to me. I would like Audi to address that major issue and I would be on the bandwagon.
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fastaussie
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Audi seems perfectly happy with their flagship, so who am I to tell them what to do. it's sales suggest everyone else likes it a lot too.
that this is an Audi R8 thread, and just because you don't like the car doesn't mean it's not a great car or a serious (and worthy) competitor to the new NSX.
end...
+1
Then again both of you agree that the F458 is in your respective bucket lists of a car to own someday
Who knows, maybe someday you will hit the track and become a track junkie and start seeing things a bit more our way
Maybe I will one day as you never know how your taste/thought train changes over the years, but I've never been much a sports competitor in the sense that I like to dribble a basketball or catch a football every blue moon, but I don't regularly partake in that type of competitive and recurring hobby.
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We are comparing models, not brand. Ferrari and Lambo are exotic brands, but there are such things as "exotic-like" models by nature. There has been many posts in this very sub-forum that has been dedicated to identifying what is "exotic." It's a heavily debated subject, but it can be quantified and identified properly IMO.
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fastaussie
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ex·ot·ic
iɡˈzädik/
adjective
adjective: exotic
now that the NSX will be manufactured in its entirety in America, by the above (relative) definition it does not qualify as "exotic", but all other European cars do, including the one this thread is about...
at 4.5 litres the 458 Speciale makes 133 horsepower per litre. does any other naturally aspirated road car engine make as much or more?
a Ducati 1199 R motorcycle makes 170 horsepower per litre by comparison. and weighs under 400 lbs. :smile:
God bless the Italians, they really know how to get shit done...
iɡˈzädik/
adjective
adjective: exotic
- 1.
originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country.
now that the NSX will be manufactured in its entirety in America, by the above (relative) definition it does not qualify as "exotic", but all other European cars do, including the one this thread is about...
at 4.5 litres the 458 Speciale makes 133 horsepower per litre. does any other naturally aspirated road car engine make as much or more?
a Ducati 1199 R motorcycle makes 170 horsepower per litre by comparison. and weighs under 400 lbs. :smile:
God bless the Italians, they really know how to get shit done...
That definition can't practically work for this context.
What if you live in Italy? Is a Lambo not an exotic car to Italians? Is a Prius exotic to Americans because it is made in Japan? Or even in other areas it seems to be lacking: Are exotic dancers only from foreign countries?
If you search Wikipedia for exotic car it redirects you to supercar which could be another lively topic for debate.
fastaussie
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hence the "relative" thrown into that sentence. :wink:
however, it wasn't a super serious statement.
much like the "Hypercar" discussion we had a few weeks back...
Exotic depends on the person. Exotic to me means exclusivity because its high priced. The qty sold is just means how popular it is. At 160k NSX is exotic to me and many others but its not popular because most would rather buy a Ferrari for 160k because its just more popular.
Audi was going to build a Lemans street legal car but axed it because they don't need a halo car if it doesn't sell at a profit. If they build an Audi based off the Aventador it wouldn't sell as much either. Plus the vw group has other brands to build exotics. Honda/Acura is in a different position since they are not as big and diverse as vw group. Ideally, Honda can buy McLaren if all goes well in F1 together and if McLaren is ever up for sale.
Audi was going to build a Lemans street legal car but axed it because they don't need a halo car if it doesn't sell at a profit. If they build an Audi based off the Aventador it wouldn't sell as much either. Plus the vw group has other brands to build exotics. Honda/Acura is in a different position since they are not as big and diverse as vw group. Ideally, Honda can buy McLaren if all goes well in F1 together and if McLaren is ever up for sale.
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