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Acura NSX Details Emerge - in Today's Autoweek

I can understand this "benchmark current halo cars then set your performance targets above them, keep the car driver centric/human fitting/dynamic/fast, pioneer new production techniques,)

BUT.........

WTF is this bullshit? "Honda officials know the all-wheel-drive V-6-powered NSX isn't going to outmuscle most Corvettes, Ferraris and Porsches. But they also know that it takes more than raw power to ignite the passion of sports car enthusiasts."

So right off the bat admitting defeat? If it can't be an entry level Corvette around the track no one except country club dr types will buy this. Corvette guys will laugh!!!!!
"you paid WHAT for a car that is slower than mine?" Bawhawwwwwhawwwww


If the new NSX does anything slower than 3 second zero to 60 forget it.
 
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I can understand this "benchmark current halo cars then set your performance targets above them, keep the car driver centric/human fitting/dynamic/fast, pioneer new production techniques,)

BUT.........

WTF is this bullshit? "Honda officials know the all-wheel-drive V-6-powered NSX isn't going to outmuscle most Corvettes, Ferraris and Porsches. But they also know that it takes more than raw power to ignite the passion of sports car enthusiasts."

So right off the bat admitting defeat? If it can't be an entry level Corvette around the track no one except country club dr types will buy this. Corvette guys will laugh!!!!!
"you paid WHAT for a car that is slower than mine?" Bawhawwwwwhawwwww

That was automotive news saying that not Ted klaus or anyone at Honda.
 
I continue to believe that Honda will position the new NSX against the Porsche 911 4S and GT3.
To me his means 6 cylinders, about 105-125 hp per liter depending on tune, about 3200 lbs., 6.5-7 lbs. per hp on N/A basis and somewhere between $120-150K
The battery assisted boost of say 100 hp would put the NSX up on the current Porsches but in two years Porsche will likely have raised the bar some.

I am confident Honda will match or exceed Porsche hp per litre and the electric boost/4 wheel drive should make the NSX competitive power wise.
Perhaps where Klaus is trying to point us is in the suspension/handling/driving experience and possibly it's here that Honda will exceed Porsche and perhaps some of the higher priced marques.

I don't think Honda is concerned about Corvettes.
It's an American Icon, offers outstanding value per hp, but I think attracts a different kind of driver than a Porsche/NSX.
 
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Arm chair racing is on!
No need to actually show up or be able to drive just bring copies of the specs, several car magazine reviews and throw down.
Deja vu all over again except this time ... no car. No real, driving prototype.

No worry,virtual cars and magazine racing go hand in hand, or rather cloud to cloud.

Hmm, should that be cloud to Klaus? :biggrin:
 
Lacking soul and character? C'mon...

This means it didn't oversteer and kill you like Porsches of the day or feel and operate like a kit car (Ferrari of the day). Thanks to the NSX the current cars from Porsche and Ferrari start/run everyday and don't leave Middle East size oil pools in your driveway or garage.
 
Thanks to the NSX the current cars from Porsche and Ferrari start/run everyday and don't leave Middle East size oil pools in your driveway or garage.


Well said Perry!
 
With that said, they will still need to show what their "experimental" is. Will it be as revolutionary as the current NSX? Not likely. I don't see them releasing a car that changes how Ferrari and Porsche design and build their own vehicles. If I'm wrong, than I will be very happy. I would love to see the ideological successor to V-TEC.
 
We shouldn't overlook that somewhere in Japan there is a group of engineers building and testing a 90 degree V6 turbo F1 engine to supply McLaren in 2015.
Would doubt that they started working on this when it was announced and suspect Honda has been working at it since the FIA made the engine rule changes a few years back.

We know Honda not only can build winning F1 engines but going as far back as the CVCC combustion head they have been innovators in engine technology.
Is the reason the powertrain is being developed in Japan because the F1 engine and NSX engine group are working in the same facility?
Because it's Japan we are not likely to have the type of info leaks that will come out of Ohio.

I don't think this means the new NSX engine will be loaded with the equivalent to VTEC like features but if we look at engine technology Honda has few peers.
 
What exciting times we live in and all questions will be answered in 18-24 months; hopefully
 
Thanks to the NSX the current cars from Porsche and Ferrari start/run everyday and don't leave Middle East size oil pools in your driveway or garage.

Something that wasn't well appreciated when the NSX first came out, but certainly is. I wonder if the NSX2 will have a similar impact on the industry (kinda hard to imagine, but isn't that the point?).

kookoo4nsx said:
"you paid WHAT for a car that is slower than mine?" ... If the new NSX does anything slower than 3 second zero to 60 forget it.

I'd say that is going to be a guarantee. I don't think the NSX2 is going to touch the C7 in terms of raw muscle & price.

Turbo2Go said:
I am certain it will be much faster than a standard C7 in a straight line
Similar statement as above, I am certain it will be slower than a standard C7 in a straight line.

Much like Honda targeted the Ferrari in the late 80s, I think the vehicle that Honda is targeting is the Nissan GTR. Same hi-tech, but more grace and elegance and less muscle and ferocity. The success of the Subaru BRZ has demonstrated that car buyers are willing to buy a dancer, Honda is now going to give them one that has more power and sophistication at a significantly higher price.
 
If the new NSX does anything slower than 3 second zero to 60 forget it.

You make a most interesting point

If we assume a 3200 lb. AWD manual transmission it will take at least 560 hp to achieve this.
A Porsche Turbo S will do 0-60 in 2.9 sec. with it's 3.8 litre, 560 hp. turbo engine but it's price point starts at $181 K.
The 458 Italia will also do but has a list price of about $230-240K.
It looks like the price for 0-60 in less than 3 secs. starts at $180K.

Are you saying if the new NSX can't do 0-60 in less than 3 then Honda should forget it?

Would you be willing to step up and pay $180K for the new NSX if it did 0-60 in less than 3?
Or do you expect Honda to offer 0-60 in less than 3 for $120K?
 
When I first saw the NSX prototype in Detroit, I came back and went to my favorite dealer and put a deposit on it. Dealer told me they had "heard" at the pre-show talk for dealers only in Las Vegas that price was targeted at somewhere between $83-89k. The rumours keep pushing the price in the clouds higher and higher, and if they are true, I am certainly going to get my refundable deposit back and bail on the new NSX. I just can't see how what they seem to be promising is going to be worth the rumoured money. I am not looking for a pretend performance, but a real performance car. I have owned a 93 NSX since 1994 and have put thousands of laps on it. But i wanted something faster, and almost put the buy on a C6 Z06 when I heard about the GT-R. So I put a deposit on that and was one of the first to get one. I have retired the NSX from the track and have been running my GT-R for 4-1/2 years on road and track. In terms of performance, it just destroys my 93 NSX. There is simply no comparison.

I just came back from an invitation only event for advanced drivers at Mont Tremblant, and passed every single Porsche GT3, GT3 RS and the two GT3 RS 4.0's there (dozens of Porsches), many of which were running on slicks, and others on R compounds. For the new NSX to target the GT-R would be a big mistake, as basically hardly any car can beat it on track, except a very few, and it is much easier to drive than most cars than can go faster (only guy faster than me for the day was my buddy in his Viper ACR Type X race car on Michelin slicks). I am not expecting the new NSX to be faster than the GT-R, but hopefully more fun to drive on the street. I still really enjoy my old NSX, and it has been the most reliable car I have ever owned. But it has always been down on power.

Gordon Murray when driving the NSX while developing the F1 for McLaren said the NSX chassis was very stiff and wondered why Honda had not given it more power as the chassis could easily handle it. I always thought a V-8 with twice the cylinders and twice the power of the S2000, or 480 HP would have fit the bill, but Honda just never really developed the NSX as time went on. GT-R on the other hand has been developed significantly since I bought my 2009. The last version tested by Top gear was about 2 seconds faster than the 2009 model on their track, and the 10th fastest car ever at this point, faster than a Ferrari Enzo and Maserati MC-12. And the new 2014 GT-R has more power yet and a more refined chassis and would be faster still. Plus 2014 GT-R is still only $99k, and not $110k as some say. For the extra 10k you get the black edition which has no performance improvement over the base model, just cosmetics really. I just don't think anyone can make a car for under $100k that can compete with the GT-R. But they could certainly make a car that is more engaging to drive at normal speeds. GT-R just wants to eat the road, and is really made to come alive at way-past-legal track speeds, for which it is very, very good. But now I see the new C7 with 460 HP is going to sell for $51k, and the Z51 version with all the trick track optimized parts is going to be only $53.8k, plus a couple of k’s for the optimized dampers. I just might get my deposit back from the dealer and buy the C7 Z51. Who does Honda think will buy their new NSX at over $100k, possibly $150k? Certainly not me. And I also have a turbocharged Integra Type R that is pretty much a track only car now. A fabulous drivers car when it came out, which was lacking power, but I fixed that, with 300 WHP, more powerful and lighter than my NSX. And I just sold my old 1970 911 with a 2.7 litre engine, and contrary to what some have said, it never tried to kill me. It was a lot of fun, old school, but a little too slow for me, although I had it for almost 30 years. Porsches are great cars, and the new base Cayman platform is only about $59k and getting great reviews as a driver’s car.

So I am a big Honda fan, but I also like many different cars, and I kind of want a new NSX as much as anyone might, but I am having serious doubts about what is being offered up in the rumour mill. I am a big fan of new technology, and the 2 front wheel electric motors might be great to improve handling and traction out of corners, with Super Super AWD or whatever they might call it, but will they deliver a light enough car to make it fun? GT-R has figured out how to make a heavy car stupid fast, making everyone else play catch up. Is Honda up to the task? They sure have lost their mojo over the last decade. They just currently don't make anything I am interested in, except my wife's MDX. All their sports cars have disappeared. The ILX has just been rated one of the least enjoyable cars to drive by Consumer Reports. What's up with that? No drinking the cool aid or spreading the cool whip for me. If I don't buy a C7, I just might use the cash to trade in my GT-R and buy a 2015. Honda had better hurry up and do something if they want my deposit to keep earning them interest.
 
Descartesfool

Very thoughtful comments.

My cousin who owned a 91 NSX, sold it for a 2009 GT-R and has similar thoughts to yours.
He has a theory that there are two classes of sports cars, the real ones with tradition and the want-to-be newcomers.
He sees the Ferrari/Porsche/Lotus/Lamborghini/McLaren as the traditional "real" sports cars and the GT-R/Corvette/Camaro/Mustang/Challenger as newcomers.

The NSX is somewhere in between at the moment.

Based on performance figures you would think the GT-R and Corvette would put Ferrari/Porsche/Lotus/Lamborghini/McLaren out of business.
Porsche however continues to sell plenty of cars that don't perform as well as the GT-R/Corvette for example.
His thinking is that these owners are buying Porsches for reasons well beyond their 0-60 times and they don't see a GT-R as a "real" sports car.

Certainly Ted Klaus faces a career making or breaking task and no matter what he does he will receive much criticism.
I am rooting loudly for him and want him to do very well as I have a deposit on a new NSX too.
 
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I am not expecting the new NSX to be faster than the GT-R, but hopefully more fun to drive on the street.

Great post decartesfool and I agree with what you are saying and appreciate that you (unlike me) have the driving experience to really back it up. I pulled a single sentence from your post as I think it hits on what I meant to say when I said that the GT-R is going to be the target. I don't expect that the NSX2 will be faster than the GT-R, that car is simply too big of a monster to topple in terms of raw power. I *do* expect that they will try to make it more connected to the road, a more intimate driving experience than the GT-R. Or at least, that is what my crystal ball says is the wise strategy for Honda to follow. Where the GT-R is a car that takes you for an awesome thrill ride, the NSX2 will be a car that YOU drive rather than the other way around.

Time will certainly tell though and it is a big hurdle to leap over. Lets see if this new Honda is up to the task that the Honda of 30 years ago so eloquently accomplished (even if they did then let it rot on the vine).
 
It isn't difficult to make a car to have a more connected driving exprienced than the GTR.

As for driver FEEL, the NSX development team along with Ted Klaus shall use the Zanardi NSX as the benchmark. I hope the picture taken with Ted and the Zanardi NSX in the background isn't just for posing. Use the car as the benchmark for Feel. Every engineer need to drive this car to know their target for feel.

Every subsequent iteration of cars from all car makers continue to lose the feel factor. This is a nasty trend. Its like the condom you use keeps getting thicker and thicker.

Take off the gloves, lose the condom. Go for a real ride and engage all your senses.
 
Has Honda 110% confirmed that the NSX2 will not be offered with a 3rd pedal as an option? If so, I think that is a huge mistake as the purist drivers will flock to Porsches with 3rd pedals. If the NSX2 ends up lacking a 3rd pedal, my next car will almost certainly be a GT3. For this very reason I never had any interest in the GTR(along with it being AWD but that is a whole different discussion). The argument that the paddle shifters produce faster shifts means absolutely nothing to me when I am driving on curvy roads enjoying the challenge of thinking 3 steps ahead while sporting an ear to ear grin after executing the perfect heel to toe rev match. I have owned several high powered cars that would smoke my current NSX in a straight line, but none were as fun and rewarding to drive in the twisties. While there is a chance the right AWD system can win me over, there is no chance that any paddle shift will unless I am shopping for a daily driver. Personal opinion rant over
Jeff
 
New GT3 has no 3rd pedal, gone for good. Virtually every modern Porsche sold is sold with a PDK transmission. Ferrari's have no 3rd pedal in any car they make. McLaren has no 3rd pedal. Manual transmission is dead for high end sports cars. Dual clutch is just so much better in every way. I have a GT-R and transmission is simply fantastic. My old NSX manual is nice, but feeling a little old school. Shifting is overrated. Keep your eye on the road, and both hands on the wheel, and nail the apex every time, never miss a shift, never risk an over-rev. That is what all the world's top race car drivers do, even the latest Formula Ford has a sequential box with rev-matching. Any brain space you are using for heel and toe can be better applied to corner entry, apex and corner exit.
 
Your points regarding DSG are logical and valid. There are reasons for both transmission. One favors driver involvement and feel, the othe favors all out performance. On the track, I prefer DSG, on the road, I prefer manual trans.

911 and 911 S comes with 7 speed manual. When you go turbo or GT3, you have only DSG. Since NSX is targeting 911, why not let the buyer decide when it comes to transmissions. The big concern for Honda is to balance what the development cost of the manual transmission versus how many lost sales for not offering a manual. In addition to developing a manual to withstand the higher output, the manual transmission integration with the hybrid powertrain will also take development efforts, albeit the integration element is mostly calibrations and settings, rather than hardware.

There is talk of either a mini-NSX or 2 versions of the NSX, with and without turbo. My hope is the lower output engine would offer a manual trans based on a beefed up version of the existing 6 speed, hence minimizing development cost and meeting the needs of their buyers. If the NSX doesn't come with a manual, it may be a deal breaker for me. Call me old fashioned and call my car not-as-fast. But the heart wants what it wants. And I want to shift myself. The questions is will Honda let the buyer decide.

I'm curious what potential buyers on this site would perfer. Survey anyone? I think Honda should hear from Americans, not just folks that gave feedback in NSX Fiesta in Japan. America is their largest market.
 
Fortunately there are plenty of very clean pre-owned 997 GT3 manuals on the market ;) Anyone can drive a PDK/DSG car, while if I had to take a stab in the dark I would say 20% or less of the licensed US population knows how to drive a true manual transmission. I like that manual shifts are "old school", I like having a skill that few have and I like knowing that no matter how good I get there will still always be room for improvement. I prefer to drive the car, not let the car drive me. The manual transmission has been around for 100+ years and will never die in the high end sports car segment.

When Porsche released the 996, enthusiasts cried bloody murder when they saw the new headlight design. Porsche listened and went right back to their traditional headlight design for the 997 and have continued as such with the 991. Enthusiasts will cry bloody murder again now that there is not a manual transmission available for the 991 Turbo & GT3. I have my money on Porsche listening again and the return of the manual transmission in both cars not being too far behind.

Different strokes for different folks means we should have options. Offer both transmissions and make everyone happy.
I do believe that American Honda has eyes on this board so hopefully they read this and see that NSX enthusiasts may want both options. My $ will not be going to Honda if the NSX2 is only available in paddle shift.

The idea of an NSX and a mini NSX (S2000 like model) sounds plausible to me. Honda gas a huge gap in their sports car market on both the Honda and Acura side of the business and will need to fill both gaps if they want to compete with Nissan(GTR & 370Z).
 
In regards to manual vs DCT transmissions with paddle shifters, I used to think that only manual was the proper choice. But after almost 5 years of driving my GT-R, I think dual clutch is the way of the future. I have been heel and toeing for over 15 years on track, and you get pretty good at it. I have done thousands of laps with my NSX, and a turbo ITR, both fun to shift. However you can definitely apply more concentration to driving the line and braking later into corners with a DCT in a car like the GT-R. I drive both manual and PDK every week, and while on the road the manual does have its charm, and the NSX box shifts fabulously, I just don't miss shifting when I change cars for the day. And the DCT shifts seamlessly in the middle of corners while trail braking or accelerating at full power. Try that in a manual, and you might end up looking at the oncoming traffic. Plus you can never miss a shift at speed and risk destroying your engine.


And perhaps most Porsche buyers are not purists in some people's minds who call themselves purists, because manual sales are in the tank for the 911:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/02/porsche-911-manual-transmission-phased-out-maybe.html
"Don’t rush to get a manual-transmission Porsche 911 yet, but it seems production of the seven-speed sports car might be limited to the next eight years.

Michael Schätzle, project manager of the new 911, said so in an interview with Automobile, citing sales figures that say 78 percent of the seventh-generation 911 sold with the PDK dual-clutch automatic. It’s a fact that might make driving purists cringe, but transmissions like Porsche’s PDK offer faster, more efficient shifts and consequently improved forward propulsion potential and efficiency."

I think it would be a mistake for the new NSX to not be a DCT. Will they offer both like Porsche, for perhaps only 22% of the buyers like Porsche, which at the potential rumoured price would be rather very few in total I think. I doubt it. Of course the new C7 comes without a DCT, but then it only cost $51,000. I am keeping my NSX for that old school feel, but as I drive on the track, for anything new, its DCT for me if available. It is simply better in every way. But a manual only option wouldn't stop me from buying a new Vette, or an NSX.
 
With a smaller engine and lower torque than some of the competition one of the ways Honda can level the field is through the torque multiplication of the transmission. If we use lower gearing for greater torque then we also need higher rpm which our NSX's have. Honda has a lot of experience with small displacement high rpm engines and the transmissions needed to make the package work.

It seems all manufacturers are offering smaller engines for better mileage coupled with transmissions with more gears to multiply the lower torque from the smaller engines. Did I see an ad for a Dodge pickup with an 8 speed transmission.?

In any event with transmissions having more gears, the DCT makes more sense. Faster, more fuel efficient, no missed shifts, coupled with the efficiency of a direct, no slip driveline.
 
Ford and GM have penned a deal for joint efforts on developing a 10 speed. How long has it taken Acura to put a 5 speed automatic transmission in their halo vehicle (RL) ?
 
hey... my chopper had a 10 speed.....sweet......
 
Ford and GM have penned a deal for joint efforts on developing a 10 speed. How long has it taken Acura to put a 5 speed automatic transmission in their halo vehicle (RL) ?
It is a 6. And to be fair, anything over 6 speeds is above that price (excluding Chrysler Pentastar).
 
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