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Anybody also consider the E46 M3?
- Thread starter matti
- Start date
Once again...
Go here.
M3 engine failure
http://members.roadfly.com/jason/frame1.htm
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James
2000 Red/Tan
South Florida
http://members.aol.com/flnsx
Go here.
M3 engine failure
http://members.roadfly.com/jason/frame1.htm
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James
2000 Red/Tan
South Florida
http://members.aol.com/flnsx
- Joined
- 14 April 2002
- Messages
- 2,273
Autoweek did an article about the engine failures after receiving many complaints.
Also - this thread probably belongs in the comparisons forum not in the general forum.
M3 is a great car but as has been discussed many times - far different then an NSX in many ways.
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Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
Also - this thread probably belongs in the comparisons forum not in the general forum.
M3 is a great car but as has been discussed many times - far different then an NSX in many ways.
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Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
Not true.
Also not true.
There's more information in the recent article in AutoWeek.
I bet Lud moves this topic to the "Off Topic" forum shortly...
Great minds thinking alike at the same time...
E46 in conjunction with NSX or other midship sports car, but E46 will never replace the NSX in my garage.
Actually the poster is right, BMW has officially responded to the issue concerning the e46 M3's engine failures by specifying a new crank shaft, con rods, and a variety of other parts beginning with factory build dates of 11/2002 and later. In fact, dealers have already begun receiving updated service CD-ROMs, with full part numbers for ordering. I suggest any e46 M3 owners lurking on this board inquire about it whenever possible...Oh and no, so far there are no plans on offering a TSB-related goodwill replacement on engines made earlier than 11/2002. Nice eh?
Ok so back to what the poster asked, which wasn't about engine failure issues...
For me the e46 M3 was a prime candidate, frankly nothing can touch its mix of performance, capability, and practicality for under $60K new. Period. However it's a very heavy car 3,410lbs, with over-boosted steering, and while driving it I always got the impression I was simply in a fast sedan. Certainly not that "Le Mans GT1" feeling I get from the low height/low cowl line NSX.
To me, in the M3 it seems that when you're doing 80MPH you're actually doing 40MPH, while in the NSX I feel the opposite: 40MPH seems like 60+MPH. Much more visceral sports car experience.
I liked the M3, but its weight and high ride height combined with its over-boosted steering turned me off. But it's a fab car and I suggest you drive one and compare it to the directly to a late model NSX.
[This message has been edited by MAKO (edited 10 December 2002).]
Ok so back to what the poster asked, which wasn't about engine failure issues...
For me the e46 M3 was a prime candidate, frankly nothing can touch its mix of performance, capability, and practicality for under $60K new. Period. However it's a very heavy car 3,410lbs, with over-boosted steering, and while driving it I always got the impression I was simply in a fast sedan. Certainly not that "Le Mans GT1" feeling I get from the low height/low cowl line NSX.
To me, in the M3 it seems that when you're doing 80MPH you're actually doing 40MPH, while in the NSX I feel the opposite: 40MPH seems like 60+MPH. Much more visceral sports car experience.
I liked the M3, but its weight and high ride height combined with its over-boosted steering turned me off. But it's a fab car and I suggest you drive one and compare it to the directly to a late model NSX.
[This message has been edited by MAKO (edited 10 December 2002).]
Also, the OP may want to read this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000073.html
Viper, Ferraris, and Lambos were cars I (briefly) considered before buying my NSX.
http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000073.html
Viper, Ferraris, and Lambos were cars I (briefly) considered before buying my NSX.
- Joined
- 14 April 2002
- Messages
- 2,273
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Great minds thinking alike at the same time...
Wow - thanks Ken. That is the nicest complement I have had all week!
Thanks for making my day...
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Nick M
91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
No, the poster is wrong. BMW has officially responded to the issue with a "suggestion that over-revving or missed shifts led to most failures" (AutoWeek's words, not mine) - this despite many failures in SMG-equipped cars, which do not permit over-revs.
The cars reporting engine failures were built from March 2001 to March 2002.
The M3 is still a great car. However, anyone considering buying one should read all the information about it, including that available on the two websites above, in order to make an informed decision.
Thanks MAKO, I know that the bad publicity lead to that retroactive fix. From all accounts BMW was dragging their feet until the very end.
I originally asked this question because I have been considering an M3 if finances permit. Problem is, I live in the NE so there's no way around having to keep another car for winter.
That said, I have always loved the NSX and there suddenly seems to be some 1994 models in the low $30's. I need to decide between spending $55K for a car I can't drive everyday and spending $35K for a car I can't drive everyday. Of course one is new and one is used, but there's no denying the attention an NSX gets - good or bad. Anyway, I'm rambling.....apreciate all of the responses.
I originally asked this question because I have been considering an M3 if finances permit. Problem is, I live in the NE so there's no way around having to keep another car for winter.
That said, I have always loved the NSX and there suddenly seems to be some 1994 models in the low $30's. I need to decide between spending $55K for a car I can't drive everyday and spending $35K for a car I can't drive everyday. Of course one is new and one is used, but there's no denying the attention an NSX gets - good or bad. Anyway, I'm rambling.....apreciate all of the responses.
NSXtasy - I have done plenty of research on E46 M3's. I've seen all of the sites, and read accounts from owners that had the problem. The "specified parts" would be inluded on any 2003 M3 which I chose to obtain because it would have a post 11/02 build date. Not sure why you seem to want to argue about this - but simple math tells me that 100 failures out of 13,000 cars in the US is a rate of less than 1%. So if you're argruing that the problem is inherent in every M3 that has been produced, I disagree. If your arguing that BMW handled the situation poorly, I agree.
Again, I'm taking this out of the equation alltogether by looking at 2003 models with post 11/02 build dates - so why keep referring me to accounts of the problem is a puzzle.
Again, I'm taking this out of the equation alltogether by looking at 2003 models with post 11/02 build dates - so why keep referring me to accounts of the problem is a puzzle.
Get 'em both! I love my '02 M5 as much as my NSX. Very different indeed but both awesome cars.
I Love them both.
Good BMW E46 forums for you to discuss about the M3 to owners:
http://www.m3forum.com
http://www.e46fanatics.com/
and GruppeM intake mods, I wish they build the exhaust too
http://www.projektwerks.com/howto/gruppem/
http://www.gruppem.co.jp/inpo-2.htm
http://www.tuningwerks.com/v2/articles/101502_gruppem_e46m3_intake.html
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'03 MDX Starlight Silver/Ebony
- 260 HP
-> miles start to climb
'94 NSX Brooklands Green Pearl/ Onyx
- 10k miles
- GruppeM Intake & Exhaust V.3
'01 M3 Laguna Seca Blue/ Grey - 5k miles
'93 300SE MBZ - 97k miles and running strong
[This message has been edited by insx (edited 10 December 2002).]
Good BMW E46 forums for you to discuss about the M3 to owners:
http://www.m3forum.com
http://www.e46fanatics.com/
and GruppeM intake mods, I wish they build the exhaust too
http://www.projektwerks.com/howto/gruppem/
http://www.gruppem.co.jp/inpo-2.htm
http://www.tuningwerks.com/v2/articles/101502_gruppem_e46m3_intake.html
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--
'03 MDX Starlight Silver/Ebony
- 260 HP
'94 NSX Brooklands Green Pearl/ Onyx
- 10k miles
- GruppeM Intake & Exhaust V.3
'01 M3 Laguna Seca Blue/ Grey - 5k miles
'93 300SE MBZ - 97k miles and running strong
[This message has been edited by insx (edited 10 December 2002).]
As a current E36 M3 owner and a big fan of BMW M cars, I've always contemplated getting the E46 M3 as a new stablemate of the NSX.
However, I would never consider getting it as a replacement for the NSX!!!
There are others on this board who seriously considered the E46 M3 but ended up getting the NSX instead.
However, I would never consider getting it as a replacement for the NSX!!!
There are others on this board who seriously considered the E46 M3 but ended up getting the NSX instead.
Just to be clear so those following this thread aren't confused regarding the well known engine issues facing existing e46 M3s:
ALL e46 M3s with manufacturing dates equal to or later than 11/2002 will have a new version of various S54 engine parts specified by BMW engineers that include but are not limited to:
New Crankshaft from 11/02
New Connecting Rod from 11/02
New Connecting Rod Bolt from 11/02
New Bearing Shell from 11/02
New Camshaft from 11/02
Again, this is not being performed as a recall or TSB for previous e46 M3 owners who are effectively being screwed. BWM is admitting no wrongdoing or liability in this issue publically. Also, this is not rumor, but fact based on multiple BMW dealerships having recieved new ETK CD-ROMs this week containing this information.
That being said, if you're in the market for a new M3 or a used one a year or two from now, remember that the magic date is 11/02/2002, as in you want one manufactured on or after that time.
To all others, go drive the M3 if you're debating. Great car, has a different feel versus the NSX, but is easily as capable in the area of performance and far exceeds it in terms of practicality.
ALL e46 M3s with manufacturing dates equal to or later than 11/2002 will have a new version of various S54 engine parts specified by BMW engineers that include but are not limited to:
New Crankshaft from 11/02
New Connecting Rod from 11/02
New Connecting Rod Bolt from 11/02
New Bearing Shell from 11/02
New Camshaft from 11/02
Again, this is not being performed as a recall or TSB for previous e46 M3 owners who are effectively being screwed. BWM is admitting no wrongdoing or liability in this issue publically. Also, this is not rumor, but fact based on multiple BMW dealerships having recieved new ETK CD-ROMs this week containing this information.
That being said, if you're in the market for a new M3 or a used one a year or two from now, remember that the magic date is 11/02/2002, as in you want one manufactured on or after that time.
To all others, go drive the M3 if you're debating. Great car, has a different feel versus the NSX, but is easily as capable in the area of performance and far exceeds it in terms of practicality.
You could cross shop the two but the M3 and NSX were built for different purposes and both are awesome cars.
I daily drive my NSX and have had 0 problems, even with 18" rims in the potholed streets of Atlanta.
I daily drive my NSX and have had 0 problems, even with 18" rims in the potholed streets of Atlanta.
My two cents...
Would you buy an E46 M3 right as or after the warranty is about up?
You could be making a $10,000 mistake not to mention three weeks of down time.
I don't care IF they have addressed the problems...I'm not going to take the chance. With my luck...you know how the rest goes.
My next door neighbor lost his engine and is still fighting BMWNA.
"The thing doesn't run right anymore"
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James
2000 Red/Tan
South Florida
http://members.aol.com/flnsx
Would you buy an E46 M3 right as or after the warranty is about up?
You could be making a $10,000 mistake not to mention three weeks of down time.
I don't care IF they have addressed the problems...I'm not going to take the chance. With my luck...you know how the rest goes.
My next door neighbor lost his engine and is still fighting BMWNA.
"The thing doesn't run right anymore"
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James
2000 Red/Tan
South Florida
http://members.aol.com/flnsx
Well put, 8000RPM...once again, sounds like my case. I've spent countless nights thinking about the '98 NSX offer in front of me and the brand new MSRP M3. To make a long story short, I now take my car to the monthly NSX meet. I once invited my friend (brand new 2002 SMGII M3) to out meet and we all went for a group drive afterwards. My friend calls me after 10 minutes into the drive and says his check engine light is on. I'm like what??? check engine light on with only 2800 miles? It was Sat so he couldn't get the car into a shop until monday. Later he realized that his hood wasn't properly closed when he was showing his engine to some of our fellow NSX members. It wasn't anything major, but my friend commently the poorly designed failure indicators. It was simply an open hood, but the SMG failure lights came on. That didn't really make much sense. If our hoods, trunks, doors or opened, we see a small car shaped indicator revealing which part was not closed properly. With the new M3s, the owner who didn't realize the closed hood will need to bring the car back to a dealership and spend time diagnosing a hood that wasn't properly closed???? Ridiculous.
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'98 Blue NSX-T
Ken, Mako is right about the E46 M3 engine issue. BMW has indeed changed significant amount of internal parts starting 11/02 to fix the blown engine issue. You may want to consult some BMW forum nazis to get some more updated information.
As far as considering a E46 M3 goes, I think a M3 with SNG shifter and the optional alcantara/leather interior with a nice aftermarket exhaust, suspension and wheels is a lotta car for under $60k. Definately a good value. However, I would wait to see what the new S4 with the V8 would do.
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George W
Porsche 996 for sale!
As far as considering a E46 M3 goes, I think a M3 with SNG shifter and the optional alcantara/leather interior with a nice aftermarket exhaust, suspension and wheels is a lotta car for under $60k. Definately a good value. However, I would wait to see what the new S4 with the V8 would do.
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George W
Porsche 996 for sale!
I have been a bimmer guy all along before I purchased my 95 NSX. I went through 328, E36 M3, 740 (and my family has E46 M3 and E39 M5).
To tell you honestly, M3 and NSX are completely different cars. Perhaps, it may be much easier to compare M3 and Porsche 911 (996) in terms of size, capacity, characteristic, and etc.
You should get the car that fits you or appeals to you the most. In choosing NSX over any other cars, it requires not just your brain, but heart as well. I have debated whole issue of choosing M3, M5 and Porsche 911 (they are newer), but my heart did not belong to those cars.
To tell you honestly, M3 and NSX are completely different cars. Perhaps, it may be much easier to compare M3 and Porsche 911 (996) in terms of size, capacity, characteristic, and etc.
You should get the car that fits you or appeals to you the most. In choosing NSX over any other cars, it requires not just your brain, but heart as well. I have debated whole issue of choosing M3, M5 and Porsche 911 (they are newer), but my heart did not belong to those cars.
A box vs a bullet. A hammer vs a knife. Different cars with different purposes and for largely different people. I don't doubt that the BMW is ultra capable, but it doesn't touch the same chords or deliver the same feedback as an NSX. It simply isn't a car that I have any interest in owning, or at least there are enough higher on my list that I'll never get there.
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
Mako is right about the E46 M3 engine issue. BMW has indeed changed significant amount of internal parts starting 11/02 to fix the blown engine issue. You may want to consult some BMW forum nazis to get some more updated information.
Or, AutoWeek may wish to consult with them, since they seem to have omitted this information from their article.
Then again, perhaps BMW did not want it to be officially stated that these parts were redesigned to address the engine failure problem, lest owners of pre-11/2/2 cars demand that they be retrofitted under warranty.
I also find it interesting that no cars made after March 2002 have reported failures (yet, anyway), even though the fix supposedly was made in November 2002.
