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Anyone considering a Subaru BRZ or Scion FRS?

Beautiful little car and I am sold. It is probably the car to fill my CRX void. It is bigger but offers more. Thanks for the great vid.
Steve
I was thinking the same. I basically need a new DD. After obsessing over a few cars so far this is my first choice. However, I'm willing to wait until prices come back down to Earth and a few of the bugs are worked out...(a few bugs have already presented themselves)

What's interesting about this car is the amount of exposure it is getting from the owner's community. I haven't seen owners so vocal about their vehicles since I was reading thru the early Lotus Elise and Ariel Atom threads. With those cars they were lucky to log 100 miles in a month. Folks have logged 4000 miles in that same time with the FR-S and the number of owners is so much larger. It's pretty much viral and it's the first car i've ever seen where the online community has made everything about ownership transparent to everyone willing to subscribe (great for potential new obsessive owners like myself). It's with this phenomenon that I think this platform will yield a good ownership experience. Toyota/Subaru do not want a public failure and they are addressing issues with a lot of resources and attention. It really helps a lot that it's a great platform and easy to love by owners.

So far it's proving to be a success story in a car developed in this internet age.

Here is an interesting thread showcasing one owner's experience daily driving this car. He's quite meticulous in recording MPG and other experiences and it is welcomed.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6178

btw.. as far as the specs are concerned. It's ~2700lbs @ 200hp getting 30~33mpg. That's plenty. I was getting the same figures in my 91 Integra way back when at 130hp.
 
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So we know what Takumi Fujiwara will upgrade to when his AE86 is done. :rolleyes:
 
I just saw a black FR-S/BRZ on the street. It was drop-dead gorgeous!!!
There are no better looking $25k cars than that, IMHO.
Congrats to Jimbo and the lucky few who got ones.
Steve
 
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There are no better looking $25k cars than that, IMHO.

'cept a high mileage 91-94 NSX, of course ;-)

If the NSX didn't exist, I would have blown my NSX money on an FR-S in a second. (And a new computer, and a nice vacation...)

But it does so I didn't.
 
There was a guy at the track with his recently, got to sit in it and see it in action too. Pretty cool little car I guess but far from gorgeous... I wasn't the only one there who said "if it only looked like the concept...". Not to beat a dead horse, but after seeing them in person and in action- still not that impressed. A lot of fun for the money I guess, unless you're willing to look at used cars then it's a whole different ball game.
 
'cept a high mileage 91-94 NSX, of course ;-)

If the NSX didn't exist, I would have blown my NSX money on an FR-S in a second. (And a new computer, and a nice vacation...)

But it does so I didn't.

Yeah, obviously "$25k" simply means a current new car at $25k. But you and I agree on this great little car anyway.
I am gonna wait a few years before picking up a used one.
Steve
 
Yeah, obviously "$25k" simply means a current new car at $25k. But you and I agree on this great little car anyway.
I am gonna wait a few years before picking up a used one.
Steve

That shouldn't be a problem once they introduce the souped-up versions in a year or so. There should be a LOT of FR-S/BRZ owners looking to trade-up.

-J

PS: I'm still waiting for mine. Hopefully before the end of the summer.
 
Factory turbo? TRD supercharger? Anyone? Bueller? :wink:
 
Great car in that price range/segment. Probably the best out there to capture the hearts of high school, 20s and even 30+ car enthusiasts.

Saw one on the road from afar and did a double-take thinking it was an LFA for a split second (saw it from the front).

Great move by Toyo. If you think of it as a celica replacement (replacing the entry-level sportscar segment) it's a winner.
 
if i wasnt buying an nsx i'd have serious think. nice shape which should to some sweet bodykits, boxer sound, engine upgrades, made for the modifiers. good stuff.
 
I just got on the list for a BRZ. I plan to sell/trade my low-mileage Accord V6, 6 speed, loaded. Right arm issues force me to move to an automatic for my daily driver and I'm impressed with BRZ.

Got the BRZ Limited with the Alcantara.

http://www.subaru.com/brz/2013/index.html

Finally, picked up the BRZ last night. I've only put about 40 miles on it so far but I'm very pleased.

Reminds me of my Lotus Elise. Taut suspension, incredibly fun to drive around town...but obviously much more livable.

-Jim
 
Stock compression is 12.5:1. It will be interesting...

There are already several turbo kits available for the twins. Boost seems to be in the 4-8 psi range. Of course, we'll have to see about longevity.

Some kits are getting 300+ rwhp.

-Jim
 
Finally, picked up the BRZ last night. I've only put about 40 miles on it so far but I'm very pleased.

Reminds me of my Lotus Elise. Taut suspension, incredibly fun to drive around town...but obviously much more livable.

-Jim

There are already several turbo kits available for the twins. Boost seems to be in the 4-8 psi range. Of course, we'll have to see about longevity.

Some kits are getting 300+ rwhp.

-Jim
Congrats! Did you pick up a 6MT or 6AT? I'm still on the fence... If I didn't have the NSX the 6MT would be a no brainer but having both makes me want a 6AT. How long was your wait? Did you pick up one off the lot (there seems to be a few that popup) or did you order and wait for yours?

A buddy of mine is doing extensive testing on the exhaust system. Seems to be no gain had from the cat back but improving the header design seems very worthwhile. I also haven't seen a Turbo kit I like yet. Inevitably more power will change the car's characteristics. I won't be ready for that until perhaps year 2 or 3. That would be a good time for the aftermarket to sort out a good kit.

You might enjoy this "review" too
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/38WqRJf7So8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Randy Pobst's Impressions:

On handling...
The balance is so good. I don't have to turn the steering wheel much and the balance doesn't change much through the corner, which is one of the things I really appreciate about the Subaru. I can enter the corner hard on the brakes, standing on the nose, and turn in. Yes, there's a little roll and no, there's not a lot of tire grip -- it's not a real strong, grippy tire -- but the balance is good through the entry phase. I add some power and it frees the car up a little bit. Just a little, right in the middle of the corner. After that, it just hooks up and drives off in beautiful shape. I can carry full cornering speed right to the exit. I know right where the car is going to go, right where it's going to be, so it's predictable. It's stable without understeer. That's a wonderful thing and I don't think that's easy to achieve.

On the brakes...
I had genuine brake fade, this was pad fade. The pedal was not soft. I could smell the brakes by the end of the second lap and by the third lap -- I did a third lap, too, partially just because I wanted to -- but I could feel clear fade. Firm pedal, but losing stopping grip, which is probably pad fade. I could smell the pads, too. Maybe they've never been that hot before.

On the engine...
The engine just doesn't want to be flogged all the way to redline -- it really doesn't. I'm shifting a couple hundred RPM below that. The engine is not the sweetest engine there is, but it has a broad power curve, makes it very usable. Needs more power. It wants it. I'd put more tire on it, too. I just like power. I don't really believe in that "this is enough power" theory, but power does really change a car's character. It's a lot more difficult, I think, to make cars handle well when they have more power. I think I would supercharge it so you don't lose that precision in the power delivery.

Overall...
Fabulous car! Oh my God! I mean, really just a wonderful and satisfying experience. I feel like I can just drive this car right on the edge of the friction circle. It reminds me a lot of my all-time favorites, the MX-5 -- first-gen, second-gen or third-gen. In some ways, it's actually better. It doesn't have the roll that the MX-5 has had all along. What a satisfying ride in terms of...everything.
 
There are already several turbo kits available for the twins. Boost seems to be in the 4-8 psi range. Of course, we'll have to see about longevity.

Some kits are getting 300+ rwhp.

-Jim

That car with a turbo would be a lot of fun.
 
Congrats! Did you pick up a 6MT or 6AT? I'm still on the fence... If I didn't have the NSX the 6MT would be a no brainer but having both makes me want a 6AT. How long was your wait? Did you pick up one off the lot (there seems to be a few that popup) or did you order and wait for yours?

A buddy of mine is doing extensive testing on the exhaust system. Seems to be no gain had from the cat back but improving the header design seems very worthwhile. I also haven't seen a Turbo kit I like yet. Inevitably more power will change the car's characteristics. I won't be ready for that until perhaps year 2 or 3. That would be a good time for the aftermarket to sort out a good kit.

You might enjoy this "review" too
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/38WqRJf7So8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Randy Pobst's Impressions:

On handling...
The balance is so good. I don't have to turn the steering wheel much and the balance doesn't change much through the corner, which is one of the things I really appreciate about the Subaru. I can enter the corner hard on the brakes, standing on the nose, and turn in. Yes, there's a little roll and no, there's not a lot of tire grip -- it's not a real strong, grippy tire -- but the balance is good through the entry phase. I add some power and it frees the car up a little bit. Just a little, right in the middle of the corner. After that, it just hooks up and drives off in beautiful shape. I can carry full cornering speed right to the exit. I know right where the car is going to go, right where it's going to be, so it's predictable. It's stable without understeer. That's a wonderful thing and I don't think that's easy to achieve.

On the brakes...
I had genuine brake fade, this was pad fade. The pedal was not soft. I could smell the brakes by the end of the second lap and by the third lap -- I did a third lap, too, partially just because I wanted to -- but I could feel clear fade. Firm pedal, but losing stopping grip, which is probably pad fade. I could smell the pads, too. Maybe they've never been that hot before.

On the engine...
The engine just doesn't want to be flogged all the way to redline -- it really doesn't. I'm shifting a couple hundred RPM below that. The engine is not the sweetest engine there is, but it has a broad power curve, makes it very usable. Needs more power. It wants it. I'd put more tire on it, too. I just like power. I don't really believe in that "this is enough power" theory, but power does really change a car's character. It's a lot more difficult, I think, to make cars handle well when they have more power. I think I would supercharge it so you don't lose that precision in the power delivery.

Overall...
Fabulous car! Oh my God! I mean, really just a wonderful and satisfying experience. I feel like I can just drive this car right on the edge of the friction circle. It reminds me a lot of my all-time favorites, the MX-5 -- first-gen, second-gen or third-gen. In some ways, it's actually better. It doesn't have the roll that the MX-5 has had all along. What a satisfying ride in terms of...everything.

I got the AT. I wanted this as a daily driver. The auto is great! The paddle shifters are way cool and "sport" mode shifts/downshifts are tight and precise. I was really worried about this but after driving it home last night I'm really glad I got the auto.

It took a long time for it to come in, but I was fine with that. I placed the order in early March and picked it up last night. The dealer didn't charge over list, although they did hit me with a "engraved glass security code" add-on that I wouldn't have bought otherwise.

Here's the thing about this car. Like my Elise before this, you can get driving excitement on local trips to 7-11. This is in stark contrast to the NSX and other mega-performance cars where you really need to get it onto a track to feel the excitement. The Elise and now the BRZ is just so much more fun to drive on regular roads than my NSX - which now feels more like a GT type of vehicle as opposed to a street-driven go-kart.

It will be interesting to see if a turbo detracts in any way from the drivability factor. A supercharger might be a better option - time will tell as numerous kits are coming online. But in all fairness, when you drive the car, your first instinct isn't... "Gee this is underpowered..." It's..."Wow, this is fun!"

I'm happy.

-Jim
 
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That car with a turbo would be a lot of fun.
No offense Netviper but anyone wanting more power is probably missing the point of this car. I can't say that for sure until I own one though so i'll reserve judgement until then.

Jimbo - I totally agree. The NSX will be a GT car for me (it has been for a while). Nothing solidified that thought more than when I started taking it to the track. I can go fast in it but it's a very focused, adrenaline, heart pumping rush. I'm expecting the BRZ to me more a toy that simply puts a smile on my face while I work those Primacy Prius tires!

I'm very excited if you can't already tell. Hopefully by Sept i'll begin the heavy shopping as scheduled.
 
But everyone always wants more power especially if the chassis is good. This car is really a bit of a poor value IMO, even the RX8 had more power and I bet would out handle it. RX8 had a higher quality interior, better wheels, etc. Everyone criticized it for its lack of power for the money bc of the Z car. This car NEEDS another $5k in forged wheels and coilovers to shine IMO, and then it's an even worse value.
 
I'm not here to defend the car and it's obvious you folks have your minds set. Happy Motoring!

Nero - and this one is for you buddy
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JUhLXvxlQR4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm a huge fan of the RX-8. It's too bad it gets HORRIBLE mpg which makes it a poor DD option and the looks are a bit polarizing. It's also not as communicative as the BRZ is claimed to be. The Z? Well... I've driven a 370Z quite a bit. It's nothing to write home about.

It's very difficult to engineer balance and a communicative chassis. This you cannot quantify in hp/tq/0-60 figures.
 
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And the RX-8 and rotary engine are now gone from Mazda's lineup. 370Z, while faster, doesn't offer the same level of driving quality and involvement. See the latest comparo by Chris Harris on DRIVE between the 370Z, Cayman and BRZ.
 
Here's the thing about this car. Like my Elise before this, you can get driving excitement on local trips to 7-11. This is in stark contrast to the NSX and other mega-performance cars where you really need to get it onto a track to feel the excitement.

Congrats on your new purchase! I am not sure I fully comprehend your point above though. The NSX is pretty exciting for me to drive on the street, maybe I need to drive a BRZ/FRS to understand what you're talking about. I'd like to meet a local owner and swap keys sometime. The one FRS owner that I met at a Cars & Coffee last month didn't seem that interested, however.
 
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