hlakhani - What a great review! I enjoyed reading that and can tell you're a true car enthusiast like many of us here.
I also agree with a lot of what you said. Especially about this...
The NSX seems to make you work for things and is very rewarding along the way, where the Cayman (BRZ for me) seems to do them just as well, with possibly less effort, but less drama too.
The NSX provides such a sense of satisfaction when you get it right. It's more rewarding. I've said this before, my BRZ (and maybe your Cayman) is like my morning cup of coffee and the NSX is like a hit of crack. If you were local i'd propose a trade for a week!
For the record, i'm not looking to get rid of the NSX anytime soon but this Toyobaru makes the NSX feel ancient technology.
There is a software development company called EcuTek. They allow tuners the ability to recalibrate the factory Subaru ECU to do some really cool stuff not to mention basic fuel/timing map tuning. Some of you car guys will like this but some of you purist may not. Again, this is just a reflash of the factory ECU. You can load back the OEM tune at any time. Sorry if this is spam. I thought it was cool. None of these features are available from factory but the aftermarket has filled in gaps I didn't even know existed.
Launch Control
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I'm more interested in understanding how it makes the NSX feel like ancient tech. Is it just accessibility like being able to flash the ECU? Or is it other things?
I'm more interested in understanding how it makes the NSX feel like ancient tech. Is it just accessibility like being able to flash the ECU? Or is it other things?
To be fair, reverse engineering ECUs has been the status quo in the subie world with multiple players world for some time.
The ECUs in modern cars are no doubt more complex than the ECUs in our NSX, and likely take into account more variables...but my (uninformed) assumption is that the market size and demand for a reverse engineered NSX ECU has probably been the limiting factor more than anything else. I'm not certain we could get all of those features, but if we also had a reverse engineered ECU, we could potentially add some of these, particularly in the NA2s that had both DBW and OBD-ii.
either way, super cool feature for sure and i used to get really jealous of some of my subie buddies when they'd effectively "open source" their tuning.
I saw that this morning too. What's interesting is that Subie came out early this year and said outright it was building a Turbo 2.0L FA20 (same as BRZ) but it was not slated for the BRZ nor would it fit. Interesting rumor indeed. Toyota also had sketches floating of a convertible with rumors of a 4dr version as well.. Oh boy.........
The turbo version of the FA20 engine has been confirmed but not confirmed for a BRZ STi. It appears that this new FA20 will be the engine used in a number of models from now on.
I have not read through the entire thread, but I saw the subject and thought that I would post my thoughts about this.
I have a 1991 NSX and I have a 2008 Civic Mugen Si as a DD. This year I drove from LV to Denver in a Camaro SS 2012 (auto=400hp) for NSXPO. I got to drive the NSX for quite some time when I got home before winter with snow got here today. A couple of weeks ago I test drove the 2012 Toyota GT86 which it is called over here.
So to compare
NSX vs Camaro
The Camaro is a biig fat pig compared to the NSX. Powerwise the NSX feel quicker. And it is a lot more fun to drive than the Camaro. I drove the hell out of the Camaro when at NSXPO, but I would have had a lot more fun in the NSX..
The NSX is in a league of it's own. The Camaro was no match at all.
Civic Mugen Si vs Toyota GT86
The GT86 had better seats than then Civic. More side support
Weight of the GT86 is 1250kg and the Civic 1325kg so almost 100kg more in the Civic. But the Civic does not feel heavier at all.
The Civic is so much more fun to drive. The power is better in the Civic. That may be that the sound the Mugen exhaust gives is a lot better. VTEC is so much fun. The GT86 did not give me any thrill at all.
The automatic paddle shift thing in the GT 86 was a dissapointment.
With more power the GT86 would be better than it is. But I don't think it would be as fun as the Civic already is.
What have I learnt? The Civic Mugen Si is a great car. The GT86 is a good car. Not as good as the Civic. Comparing the Civic and the GT86 is probably not fair as the Civic is a better car.
Yes the GT86 is given a super good review in a lot of tests. It seems as the testers drive a lot of dull cars. And that is why the GT86 are given such a good review. That is how I see it. See above. It is not fair to compare the Civic to the GT86. But it's what I have. I can't compare it to the NSX as that is really not fair.
Camaro vs NSX
See above...the NSX is so much better.
Yeah I dunno about that fwd civic being more fun that the rwd toyobaru especially given its lighter weight and engine placement. But it is underpowered and the brakes are reportedly cheap too.
If the Toyosub had more power..yes it would probably been slightly more fun. I did not think the handeling was any good. That feeling would have been even more aperent if there were more power.
I liked the seats and the smaller steering wheel. And that is about it. The Civic is a fwd car yes. But the whole package gives me a lot more thrill than no thrills from the Toyosub.
My Civic has been Hondata upgraded. Not sure if you are to believe the numbers from Hondata's site. But it says there that on a stock Civic Si with the Injen airfilter I have it is supposed to give 220.2hp. (I forgot all about my upgrade). And the Mugen header and exhaust is supposed to give 5hp+ according to a Mugen Si test on Youtube. So I guess it is not fair to compare it to the stock Toyosub.
I don't doubt your civic is very fun to drive! Anyways thanks for posting, it's good to hear differing opinions too. I haven't driven either so can't compare fully- I'm just looking at paper and what people have said. Often times tuned cars are way more fun than stock cars though, depending on level of tune.
Sorry if I sound negativ. This was not a post to brag about my Civic beeing the better car. If I was more awake and not as tired as I was when I wrote the first post I would probably written it in another way and used other words. English is not my first language.
My intent was not to rain on your parade (is that a saying?)
However it do make me feel good about my choice after driving the GT86. The same goes for the NSX vs Camaro. I'v done good
I have to say that in ALL the mostly positive and enthusiastic reviews of the BRZ-FR-S I didn't hear anyone say that any Honda Civic was more fun to drive. Not one. Heck, mostly I heard how close the twins were to the Cayman and Lotus Elise.
I am really glad someone made a car like this with these priorities, but at the same time very disappointed in the execution of a golden concept that had so much more potential. If Toyota was willing to sacrifice a little profit it could have been something legendary. Legendary like the NSX I mean- like all time great. Very enjoyable car still no doubt and great new platform to modify. I will stop beating the dead horse now and try to drive one sometime to see how convincing or not it is.
Well that is how I feel about it. I don't think it's a "market" for comparing a limited edition Mugen Si with a Toyosub. It's not something that a potential Toyosub customer would consider.
Yes the Toyosub has gotten great reviews everywhere I have seen. It makes me feel good about my choice as it tells me that if they think that is good well they have not driven mine. That is if course true for Europe as the Mugen Si is for the us market. But even in the us comparing a 4 year old limited edition car to this is not something they would do.
Keep in mind guys.. this is the spiritual successor to the AE86 not the Supra. Two completely different cars. I'd even argue the AE86 has a more loyal and diehard following even though the Supra is much "faster". This car is loads of fun. Speaking of which... this morning (It's a Friday). Parking structure is empty. A bit slick from morning dew. Polished concrete, TCS off = GOOD TIMES, BIG GRIN!!!
Will be taking it to Buttonwillow in 2 wks. Here's a buddy of mine racing against an S2000 on that track. Unbiased comparison if you read the commentary. It's a good watch.
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Just received a call from the Subaru dealer today and it looks like my pre-order should be here by the end of November! I've obviously purchased another car in the mean time, but i'm looking forward to the test drive....who knows, I may end up trading in the cayman on the brz!
In the (likely) event that I don't go for it, anyone in NorCal interested in taking my spot at the dealer to get a black limited 6MT at MSRP should PM me.
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