Anyone use a Comptech PGI or PGII clutch?

[TURBO2GO]

I did a search but didn't find much useful info.

Has anyone used a Comptech Powergrip I or powergrip II clutch?

I am wondering how people like them, what they think, how the pedal pressure is, etc. From what I understand they are using some parts from the Porsche 930 turbo models. I like my stock clutch but it is starting to wear out. I don't really want a heavy clutch. The reason I am asking only about the Comptech ones is that I can get one at a deep discount for putting together the supercharger group buy. I am not sure which to get however... and I won't get it if people hate it. Looking at past posts people seem happy but those were some old posts. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[chudson1549]

I am running pg2..it's has a heavy pedal feel but I have gotten pretty use to it. So much so that a stock clutch to me feels like I pushed through the firewall. I think I might go with pg1 or a SOS unit

 

[TURBO2GO]

How much power do you have? How is the feel other than pedal pressure?

 

[dawk]

I am using a PG2. Pedal is a little harder than OEM, but not bad. I actually prefer the feel to OEM. No chatter or shuddering. 400hp to the wheels.

6speed. PG2 revs much better compared to the dual mass OEM

 

[chudson1549]

How much power do you have? How is the feel other than pedal pressure?

420hp the clutch has been perfect

 

[Ric]

I have a PG1 clutch and it doesnt feel heavy at all. I think it might be even a bit soft for me. It worked fine when my car had 396 whp with meth and now 342 whp with just stock CTSC.

 

[NetViper]

Pg2 feels way way heavier than stock. If you want Orem feel go with the SOS clutches not the comptech.

 

[RYU]

If you guys don't mind... please specify if you're comparing between the stock 5spd vs. PG1/2 or 6spd vs. PG1/2. The stock 6spd is already heavier than the stock 5spd.

Good choice in clutches though. PG1 was the top on my list but I could never get a straight answer on if it was mildly or much harder than stock. I had an ankle injury some years ago so it was a big decision factor. I went with something else but may now consider the PG1 for the next build.

 

[chudson1549]

My stock oem 5sp compared to my pgII 6sp....I like the firmer feel

 

[TURBO2GO]

Pg2 feels way way heavier than stock. If you want Orem feel go with the SOS clutches not the comptech.

Dave PGI and PGII are not the same. High horsepower clutches are heavier. The PGII and the SOS 350 clutch are different in the HP they hold. The PGI is a softer clutch and supposed to be closer to OEM feel. My understanding is that the 275 and 350 by SOS are basically redone OEM clutches with different pads.

 

[luigib]

Dave PGI and PGII are not the same. High horsepower clutches are heavier. The PGII and the SOS 350 clutch are different in the HP they hold. The PGI is a softer clutch and supposed to be closer to OEM feel. My understanding is that the 275 and 350 by SOS are basically redone OEM clutches with different pads.

I believe the PG1/PG2 clutches use the same pressure plates (I've had both and they feel the same), so they require the same amount of pressure. Did you hear from CT that they are different? I'm very happy with my current PG1 (NA power) and I deal with Nate at CT and he has great customer service (which I'm sure you know).

 

[TURBO2GO]

Yeah pretty sure Nate said the PGI will require less pressure than the PGII

 

[NetViper]

Yeah pretty sure Nate said the PGI will require less pressure than the PGII

My car came with a pg1. It is IMO just as heavy as the pg2. It's nothing like stock pressure. Again the SOS ones that hold similar power are lighter pressure. (Sport 275 or 300)

 

[greenberet]

I’ve had both the PG1 and PG2 clutches in my 1991 NSX. In the late 1990s the only difference between the two was the clutch disc. The PG1 used a regular heavy-duty Sachs disc while the PG2 used a sintered metal racing-type unit. The PG2 juddered pulling away from a standstill while the PG1 engaged as smooth as butter. The pressure plates were the same in both so the pedal pressure was also exactly the same. Maybe Comptech has started using different pressure plates for each version now, which is something a telephone call could quickly shed light on.

My mechanic tells me that my Comptech clutch is heavier than OEM but it doesn’t seem too heavy to me and frankly, I don't even notice it anymore. After my wife drove my NSX once I asked her whether the clutch was too heavy for her. She said no and added that a lighter clutch wouldn’t feel right in the NSX given the weight of the other controls.

The only thing I don’t really like about my PG1 clutch is that the engine doesn’t seem to rev any quicker than with the stock twin-disc clutch. When I had the Powergrip installed, I was hoping the engine would rev faster, more like my old Porsche 911. Unfortunately, after the Powergrip was installed I didn’t notice any difference in how quickly the engine could rev.

 

[itrsteve]

My PG1 has a real heavy pedal, I even had the slave and master changed out to verify that I wasn't crazy.

Either way it's a leg workout

 

[RYU]

What is the flywheel weight of the PG1? If it's anything over 11lbs it's probably too heavy/slow. A heavy flywheel will contribute to a smooth as butter takeoff though but will feel even slower due to your CTSC.

Please also check if CT has made any changes to the design or components lately. It seems people have different experiences which probably means the older versions might be diff than the newer versions?

 

[dawk]

Also, it matters which years. I think in '97 Honda switched to a dual mass flywheel. Really heavy

 

[luigib]

Please also check if CT has made any changes to the design or components lately. It seems people have different experiences which probably means the older versions might be diff than the newer versions?

My car had a PG2 when I bought it but I replaced it with a PG1 less then a year ago when it wore out and I felt no difference in pedal pressure. In fact, I thought I remembered Nate saying they were the same.

Also, their website states that the PG1 is 11 LBS. lighter than 91'-96' stock clutch packages. After holding the PG1 when I got it, I was surprised at how heavy it actually was though. I've never held a stock clutch/flywheel to compare to though.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Nate said it's the same pressure plate. So does that mean 100% same feel?

if the pressure is the same why would you go with a PGI over a PGII that holds more power anyway? less shudder?

 

[RYU]

Nate said it's the same pressure plate. So does that mean 100% same feel?

if the pressure is the same why would you go with a PGI over a PGII that holds more power anyway? less shudder?

The pressure plate determines the clamping force. In this case, according to Nate, the pedal pressure will be the same between the PG1/2.

The PG1 has a different clutch plate than the PG2. That's the friction component. That's the "secret formula" some of the clutch guys think is so special. Then there's the surface area of the clutch plate itself. Smaller surface area means more clamping force per square inch is transfered to the flywheel. This is why you see "6" pucks and even "3" puck clutches... with the tradeoff being horrible slow speed engagement, chatter, and overall lack of smoothness. There are also those springs inside the clutch disc. That helps smooth things out as well.

If I was in your shoes, I'd evaluate the pedal pressure and the engagement properties of the PG1 vs the PG2. With your 7lb CTSC I don't think you'll need the PG2. I'd defer to Nate though...

- - - Updated - - -

btw.. this is the clutch i'm using. If you recall I had an ankle injury a couple of years ago so I had to prioritize a soft pedal but still hold up to 380whp from the CTSC. Actually more importantly the torque

You'll notice the clutch plate here is a hybrid. It's like a semi-multi puck design. This allows the use of a not so stiff pressure plate but still maintain the clamping force. They use kevlar material on the pressure plate so when my car is cold it does chatter a little bit. Once it warms up it's like stock. So it's all a tradeoff...

 

[greenberet]

The pressure plate presses the clutch disc against the flywheel. With the same pressure plate, you’ll have the same clutch pedal pressure unless you change other things in the system like the length of the clutch release fork.

How much torque the clutch can transmit before it starts slipping depends on how hard it is pressed against the flywheel and what friction material it’s lined with. Some materials can transmit more torque at a given clamping pressure than others. With the same clamping pressure, the sintered metal pucks Comptech used in the PG2 in the late 1990’s could transmit more torque than the organic disc used in the PG1. However, the PG2 was grabbier and you couldn’t smoothly pull away from a standstill with that friction material. As RYU said, it’s all a tradeoff.

By the way, when I talked about heavy the clutch was in my earlier post I meant how heavy the clutch pedal was - which even my wife doesn't find too heavy. Comptech state that the Powergrip clutches weigh less, if you put them on your bathroom scale, than either of the stock NSX clutches. The Powergrip clutches still weigh a substantial number of pounds, though. I brought my Powergrip flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch disc over to Europe in my hand luggage years ago. The weight ripped the shoulder strap off my leather carry on bag.

What impacts how quickly the engine can spin up is not the clutch’s weight per se but rather its moment of inertia. That’s how much weight is located how far from the clutch’s axis of rotation. Think of how a figure skater spins faster when she pulls her arms in. She still weighs the same but with the mass located closer to her axis of rotation, she spins faster. So a light clutch that has a big diameter can have a higher moment of inertia than a heavier clutch whose mass is concentrated more around the middle. If you want your engine to be able to rev quickly, you want your clutch to have a low moment of inertia. However, a low moment of inertia will also make it easier for your engine’s revs to fall to 0 if you’re not careful when you’re trying to pull away from a standstill. It’s all a tradeoff.

 

[chudson1549]

I bought my clutch in early 2000 when the BBSC was coming out. In fact Mark Basch recommended that unit due to the extra torque from the BBSC and he installed it during my SC install. At first when driving the car or tuning on the dyno (was the first time I pressed it in) I stalled it on the dyno. The clutch felt a lot heavier than my stock unit. Over the years, being NA, SC, and now turbo, the clutch feels great. I have replaced my master and slave cylinders and you do not slip it or it will shudder. When its time to replace. I will go with a PG1 since I don't need the extra clamping.

Driving Netvipers car with his clutch..to me...it felt too light but that's me being used to my heavier clutch.

 

[NetViper]

Driving Netvipers car with his clutch..to me...it felt too light but that's me being used to my heavier clutch.

Driving Hudsons car with the PG2 felt too heavy, but that's me being used my sweet stock clutch.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ok a very informative post by greenberet still leaves me a bit confused as to what to do. Then I read chudson say netviper's clutch felt light and hear netviper say a few posts up how heavy it feels.

I actually don't mind a faster revving or slowing engine. It's too slow for me now. I feel it hinders me on the track. I try to rev match and blip the throttle heel and toeing and it's like waaaaaaaa. I want the revs to fall already... Takes too long. A quick blip and I'm ready for the gear change and the lazy engine is still slowing....

 

[NetViper]

All jokes aside, if you do not want a heavy clutch, then do not get the PG1 or PG2.