Comptechs Best NSX not near good enough (C&D)

[ALLAN]

i know what its like to turn up the boost from inside with EVC. id run my porsche @.8bar normally, then up to 1.1bar on pump gas. race gas and and we'd hit 1.4bar. rarely needed to turn it though since .8bar was good for approx 130mph through the quarter.i miss that car now!

 

[NetViper]

Sounds like the challenge was issued and accepted... now, when is it going to happen!

 

[westernb4]

Originally posted by ALLAN:


btw, wanna race a diablo?

Yes, Allan, sounds like fun.
Let's start the race, say, in New York City.
The first car to L.A. wins. One rule only:
your car is allowed to move only under its own power. You could even leave spare engines and other parts at strategic locations along the route if you wish.

 

[ALLAN]

westernb, if youd like to put some money on a race like that, id be glad to do it. for enough cash we could even go back and forth. ive made several trips cross country, in several exotics,lambos,ferraris, and most recently in my lotus, 2000 miles in 24 hours, from atlanta to scottsdale nonstop. running 100-130mph with a few slightly higher spirited bursts. car ran flawlessly. my friend with his 98 diablo sv drove it for 2 years straight from south florida to california for the "running of the bulls", and then back again. never had an issue. road and track magazine did an article on a lambo vt entitled "5,000 miles across america"without an issue.
dont kid yourself, those days of exotics not making it around the block without breaking down were over in the 70's.
if it makes you feel better to think that way to make up for the fact of not being able to own one of these cars than thats your perogative.

 

[westernb4]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
ive made several trips cross country, in several exotics,lambos,ferraris, and most recently in my lotus, 2000 miles in 24 hours, from atlanta to scottsdale nonstop. running 100-130mph with a few slightly higher spirited bursts.

Sorry to doubt you, Allan, but I just don't believe you.

 

[ALLAN]

uhhh, there are several people on this list who know of my trip.
but your right, im lying. the lotus really broke down, and i hired the worlds fastest tow truck to get me home so that no one would know.
also ive been on a personal mission to try and convert all nsx owners into lamborghini diablo owners,thus i paid road and track to do that article on the diablo, and i paid my friend to tow his diablo cross country and say he drove it.
your good, you figured me out all by your self! do you have any specialized detective training?

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...Nobody wants to talk about seats, huh?

"Good Seats, eh buddy?" - Bob Eucker

------------------
'91 Black/Black

[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 16 August 2002).]

 

[westernb4]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
uhhh, there are several people on this list who know of my trip.

Trip singular or trip pleural? You forgot about those cross-country trips in "several exotics, lambos, ferraris..."

 

[ALLAN]

yes, lets see.
gilroy california to south florida, when i purchased my 92 diablo.
kansas city to south florida when i purchased my 87 countach.
san francisco to south fla when i purchased my 85 308qv.
1 trip to northbrook il,from south fl in the 92 diablo, and then back to south fl.
same trip there and back in 87 countach.
atlanta to arizona in 00 lotus.
countless trips from south florida to orlando and gainsville, in all the above except lotus.
my friends cross country trips in his diablo sv were there and back, including the "running of the bulls" in which he topped 180mph repeatedly.
the road and track article was on a continuos 5000 mile trip in the diablo with some 160+mph bursts.

i drive my diablo pretty much daily and also my lotus. these are the only cars i own,so i have no other choice.

 

[bill92nsx]

What is it with you people? Does every car except the NSX break down? Hell I had more problems with the NSX (minor, nothing major) than I did with any of my other cars (which include an 89 Testarossa, 95 355, 99 Lotus, and an 86 vette). Lights wouldn't go up, AC problems, window motor, power seat. And all this from a babied 30,000 mile car, not to mention the leather wearing off and tearing on the seat bolster. I have more miles on all the other cars and they look factory new in front of the NSX.

TheSwishh I was not knocking the NSX in my response with the Ferrari. If you have read my past notes I love the NSX for what it is. But if I were to pull up with the NSX or a Ferrari, believe me because it has happened, people do not even take a second look at it. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't make it like there is no car besides the NSX. I don't know what you have against vettes, they are the best bang for the buck, period. You trying to justify why the NSX is better than a vette, is the same as Ferrari owners having to justify why they paid so much for a car when something half its price can run circles around the Ferrari. Get over it. At one point the NSX was innovative, NOT ANYMORE. And that is why its sales reflect upon it. As for reliability of these exotics, I do not know who fills your head up full of hot air, but if these cars are taken care of they will NOT break down on you. Maybe they can't take as much abuse as the NSX but that does not mean they are not reliable.

 

[bill92nsx]

Allan you do not have to prove anything to anyone. If it makes them sleep better at night thinking the NSX is the only car that you can go cross country without any problems, let them think so. Dark-syd is right in saying this is starting to sound lie the supra forum. I don't know how people can be so close minded when it comes to cars. There is life beyond the NSX. Really. The NSX is a GREAT car but it is not the BEST.

 

[NetViper]

My thread is going to hell!! It was doing so well..

 

[snyper2727]

Does anyone know if the comptech NSX had a 4.55 Ring and pinion and short gears. I had those put in a few days ago by Basch. I already had the CTSC. My NSX really hauls now in terms of acceleration. With JUST the blower it was far less impressive.

Justin

 

[ALLAN]

hey snyper, i see your in fountain hills. want to get together one of these days? id like to see your nsx, with the supercharger. if your bored on saturday or sunday, let me know.

 

[emvanderpol]

Hey Snyper,

Completely off the topic, but I'm few weeks away from putting in the 4.55 or 4.235 & shorties myself, and have the BBSC. Would be very interested to get your perspective. Please email me [email protected].

Thanks,
Gene

 

[emvanderpol]

Allen,

Just curious, is your Lambo a '92?

 

[TheSwishh]

bill92,

Point taken. I do agree with you regarding the cost factor in comparision with what you get on the 02 models. Its too much for certain. I was simply attempting to form an opinion on Honda's reasoning behind the high price. I am not saying that I agree with Honda at all, nor do I think that the NSX is the greatest and sacred of all cars. What I am saying is that I feel I have gotten my moneys worth with my NSX.

Yes, I have had the same NSX problems like the power windows and the seat motors (seat motors surprised me since I never use them) and fortunately it was still under warranty. I do consider this to be minor in that nothing else has ever failed and I am very hard on my NSX.

As for my dislike of the Vette's... I have owned 2 (92 & 00) and had many, many problems with both. My favorite was when my heater core burst and left me with a couple gallons of steaming, hot, coolant inside of the car on the passenger side. The smell never went away and left me to replace the entire interior.

In closing I would like to reiterate my original "opinion" that cars like the Vette are most certainly the best "bang for the buck" but I feel like you get what you pay for in the long run.

PS. In the Vettes defense... It was nice having a car that could smoke the tires all the way to third gear

-just fun while it lasted.

 

[TheSwishh]

Allen,

Just curious... was your 308 fuel injected of carbureted? Mine was carbureted and needed to be tuned every 5-7K miles. As you must know its not cheap (at least for me) I loved it when my timing belt snapped at 30K miles and ruined the motor -not!

 

[bill92nsx]

Theswishh, that is exactly what everyone has been saying all along. The Nsx is worth the used money not the brand new money. My car is no longer under warranty and those minor things can get quite expensive. As for your 308, that is why people change the belts at 15,000 miles, for piece of mind. Your belt probably did not snap because of miles, but probably bacause of age and nonuse. If left standing for a while the belt starts to dry out and crack. The same goes for how it ages. That is why they say change every five years or so. In the 308/328 it is the easiest timing belt to change. Takes max 1 hour. As for build quality the NSX is far superior than the Vette and you are right you get what you pay for. Alot of NSX owners, as well as many Ferrari owners, think there are no cars better beyond the ones that they own, and this is what drives me nuts. It's like talking to a wall. Each car has its positives and negatives. They do not make one car better than the other, only different as a whole. In specific categories, sure some cars excel over the others but as a whole, they are just different. What the Honda lacks in performance, it more than makes up for in handling and reliability. What the Ferrari lacks in reliability it more than makes up for it in performance and handling. Like I said they are different. People have all these misconceptions about other cars that they are not even willing to give them a chance. Oh, it drives like a Honda, oh, you must have Luigi in the trunk ready at all times to fix the engine, oh, the NSX is a poor man's Ferrari, oh, service runs at 20,000$. I hear this all the time and just laugh my head off. As for Allan he had the injected version of the 308 (qv). Yes the carbs needed tuning with the change of weather, but it is a simple process that just about anyone can do. The same went for all the old cars with carbs on them. American cars weren't any better actually they were harder to tune. But that is not what is at point here. What everyone seems to be saying is that the NSX by todays standards is not worth 90,000$. The first thing people look at nowadays is, how much power does the engine make, not will it last me 20 years down the line. Alot of people are turned off by the measely 290hp. I for one am. Especially when stock Mustangs and Camaros and Vettes can be had with at least 350hp for a fraction of the price. And it reflects this in their sales. I hope Honda does improve the NSX or they should just kill it and leave us with the good memories, like Lotus is doing with the Esprit. No point going on if they don't better the car in any way

 

[Jimbo]

While I do think the NSX is overrpriced at $90K, I also think that if the NSX had a Ferrari badge on it and sold today for $90K everyone would be saying it was the bargain of the century...including the automotive press.

Here's the problem as I see it.

In 1991 Honda built a car that really did compete with Ferrari on all levels.

It longer does compete with Ferrari and (here's the important part)....when it came to that intangible mystique "brand" thing, Honda-Acura never DID compete with Ferrari. On all other levels, from quality to engineering the NSX was much better than the Ferrari of 1991 but let's be real, Honda-Acura never really was able to change the issue of perception.

And this is still the problem and challenge facing Honda-Acura today. I believe this is why Honda only sells a few hundred NSXs per year.

Let's look at it another way. The Honda Accord is probably on the same level as a standard 3 series BMW in many ways, but no one's (including Honda) is foolish enough to pit the Accord against the 323.

Here's what I think Honda should do regarding the NSX....

Honda should not try to actually compete against Ferrari directly. They need to find a way to build the NSX in higher numbers and at a lower price. I'm not talking Vette pricing, but somewhere between the price of a Vette and the current NSX is a happy medium. Maybe they need to offer two models. An out-and-out performance model and a vanilla model that would give them the production numbers and economies of scale.

The NSX is a beautiful and practical exotic that MANY people would LOVE to own. Honda could steal customers from the Vette, Boxster, 911, BMW and many other cars as well. But I think no matter what they do they're not really going to steal a significant number of customers away from Ferrari - even if Honda made a better car, because those customers are buying the Ferrari name and that's not going to change.

While we all wish for a balls-out next-gen NSX, I think it would be much more practical for us to wish for the following...

NSX-S (Std) - Redesigned, updated perhaps a bit lighter NSX. Same basic proportions as today's car. 3.5L i-VTEC engine derived from the current models. 300-325 HP should be quite doable. Priced no more than $60K.

NSX-R (Performance) - Same basic body structure but upgraded huge brakes, maybe a larger engine (3.7-3.8L) with performance parts and should come with turbo or supercharger from the factory - 425HP, bigger wheels-tires, in some ways like the NSX-R of today. Pricing no more than $80K.

Models like this, I believe would allow Honda to sell 2000-5000 units a year, which would make the NSX a profitable venture. It would still keep the NSX exclusive and not as commonplace as the Vette, but it would certainly help the NSX community, not to mention help the 3rd party performance aftermarket.

My 4 cents.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 17 August 2002).]

 

[robr]

thanks for the link gerry, lots of nice pictures but actually i think most of us here are far more interested in the technical details

. you have or plan on any write ups of what you've done to the engine internals?

 

[robr]

ah just noticed the link with the list of mods......

 

[huckster]

ok, i'll bite.

it sounds like we're saying that the nsx, in today's market, is a 'tweener'. somewhere between the performance of the hyper-exotics(ferraris and lambos) with the hyper pricetags, and the high performance but cheaply made unreliable corvettes and mustangs.

i'm curious at what price you think the new nsx would be blatantly superior to the corvettes?

i'm also curious what you'd be willing to pay for a new nsx that performed with or exceeded the hyper-exotic lambos and ferraris?

IMO, the nsx as it sits today is still a pretty good value when compared to the other new cars out there. so i'm curious, here you are the ceo of honda/acura--what do you do with the nsx???

do you go balls out and create a 100kplus 'ferrari/lambo'???

do you go low brow and compete with the z's, vettes, mustangs, etc???

or do you maintain the current position?

i think either direction you go means some obvious sacrifices. i suspect that honda is probably capable of producing a nsx that runs with or exceeds the high end lambos/ferraris. but the investment involved not to mention the pricetag for the consumer would be, to say the least, huge.

a mass produced nsx would be the easier route and much less expensive option. but at that point i wouldnt want the product. a nsx-ette would probably be good business for honda, but bye-bye exotic status.

so, youre the ceo, what do you think and what would you do???

 

[huckster]

hey ken, i love the seats. do you like the seats? i wouldnt want to change the seats unless i was tracking all the time. by the way, did you read my post regarding seat maintenance? my seats look brand new. there is an art to getting in and out without wearing on the bolsters. it is also good partial bodybuilding exercise.

i cant believe someone was mentioning ratty seats. i think ratty seats must be the result of using the bolster as an ass wipe. for anyone interested i'll gladly review the proven nsx ingress/egress partial body building method.

 

[bill92nsx]

I don't agree that if the NSX the way it is, had a Ferrari badge it would sell large numbers. The Ferraris of today are 400hp not 290hp. This would have been considered as a Dino or a Fiat in Ferrari world. One thing you see with Ferraris as the years went by so did the horsepower and technology go up. It did not stay the same. Honda can build something to equal the 360, why don't they?