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desperate help. again

P

pixelhaus

Experienced Member
Joined
31 January 2002
Messages
919
Location
Raleigh, NC
please help!

still having major bogging issues. breaking up sometimes pretty severely at 2-4k rpm range. step on it and it 'clears' and 'kicks in'.

replaced: coil packs, plugs, fuel filter, injectors
tested: injector resistor, fuel pressure
added: fuel moisture eliminator, injector/system cleaner

CEL Codes: 36 and 44

i'm stuck and desperate.

here are some speculations:
1. bad gas - if this were the case, wouldn't it happen at idle? at WOT? and i've been having this problem for probably 15 tanks or so. -verdict = unlikely, -action= added moisture remover, no results yet

2. 02 sensor - doesn't the 02 function at WOT only? -verdict = no? possible?

3. Bad coil - nope, changed them all. what a waste.

4. injectors - nope, changed them and had the problem with the old set too

5. injector resistor - nope, tested.

6. fuel pressure - nope, tested

7. fuel pump relay/pump relay resistor? - if the car starts and runs, wouldn't this indicate a functioning relay and fuel pump resistor?

8. fuel filter - nope, changed

9. plugs - no, checked looked good. even changed them. no luck.

once the CEL kicks on, the car seems to simulataneously smooth out. as if it goes away right as the CEL comes on. could be a coincidence.

TCS is disconnected at the box. could this be the reason for the 36 code?

desperately trying to fix this by tomorrow so i can go to indy. one of my buddies flies down every year from cali and we drive over. i would feel horrible if i couldn't drive.

thanks for any help!
 
Is your car an automatic or manual?? My '91 automatic had this problem and it was the TCS computer, so we unplugged it and it was fine. Did you say you already unplugged the computer?? Have you tried it the opposite way??
 
pixelhaus said:
hi, it's manual and i have disconnected the TCS.
Click to expand...

Did it do it before you disconnected the TCS?? What happened right before this started??
 
You have a bad rear o2 sensor, you could swap it with the front but it's not worth the effort, just put in a new one. I have had both of mine fail and the car ran ruff for few seconds and threw the code and then ran fine. The ecu tries to run the car with the bad input from the o2 and then gives up and more then likely just uses the input from the other o2.
 
hi mitch,
i disconnected it years ago and never had a problem. i've been experiencing this problem for a about 5 months, of which maybe 1-1/2 months the car was actually driven.
 
pixelhaus said:
2. 02 sensor - doesn't the 02 function at WOT only? -verdict = no? possible?
Click to expand...

O2 sends signals all the time. Once the right setting is achieved (temperature, oil pressure,...) the O2 signal is used continuously by the computer, unless the computer detects a fault. When this happens, the computer goes into a "limp" mode where the O2 signal is disregarded, instead the computer uses pre-programmed maps for the fuel, operating in an open-loop mode (no feedback to achieve best performance/fuel economy). So to answer your question, O2 functions most of the time, and not only at WOT.

pixelhaus said:
TCS is disconnected at the box. could this be the reason for the 36 code?
Click to expand...
Dunno about 36 code, but why would you go into the trouble of disconnecting it at the box and not just use the switch on the dash ? Go back and engage the TCS like it should and manually disconnect it from the dash, you'll easily see if that's the problem.
 
brian,
that does make sense. funny thing is that sensor was changed about a year ago. do you think some other factor may have caused it to fail?
 
hi James -- I have a 02 sensor that you can borrow if you'd like to do some testing. If you can hold off until Friday, we could always get one overnighted to you, otherwise, a local dealer should have them available (try one of the Acura dealers in a large city near you). Your car should be fine to drive to Indy. Maybe setup the swap with a dealer or shop on the way.

Regards,
-- Chris
 
Re: Re: desperate help. again

apapada said:
Dunno about 36 code, but why would you go into the trouble of disconnecting it at the box and not just use the switch on the dash ? Go back and engage the TCS like it should and manually disconnect it from the dash, you'll easily see if that's the problem.
Click to expand...

TCS was malfunctioning and the switch not deactivate
 
Chris@SoS said:
hi James -- I have a 02 sensor that you can borrow if you'd like to do some testing. If you can hold off until Friday, we could always get one overnighted to you, otherwise, a local dealer should have them available (try one of the Acura dealers in a large city near you). Your car should be fine to drive to Indy. Maybe setup the swap with a dealer or shop on the way.

Regards,
-- Chris
Click to expand...

thanks chris! i'll check locally first.
thanks everyone. i'll post results.
james
 
James,

You have got the 02 sensor function a little backwards. The 02 sensors are NOT used at WOT. WOT mode is open loop, so it uses a predefined map(the TPS tells the ECU what your right foot is doing!). Most "steady state" conditions (idle, part throttle, etc) will run in closed loop mode, so the 02 sensor provides feedback and regulates the mixture to 14.7:1(actually bouncing over and under that ratio). Your issue is when you are in closed loop mode the engine is not regulating the A/F ratio correctly, probably due to a bad 02 sensor.

Limp Mode is actually a separate function that will limit the rpm's to about 4K and also will be in open loop mode (02 sensor ignored) if certain conditions are detected by the ECU to prevent engine damage, but allow you to "limp" home.

HTH,
LarryB
 
Perhaps we should compile a "Hesitation checklist" and outline each test. This would help others troubleshoot their problems. Each car will have different failures at different times, and if all systems are not functioning properly the hesitation yeild will be simular. The checklist will help eliminate all possible (or common) problems.
 
looks like its the rear 02 sensor.
i ordered a new one and i will install tomorrow.
i disconnected it and it hasn't 'bogged' yet.

the bummer is that it apparently went bad around 4 months ago. which would have been under warranty. it was installed in may of last year.
if the dealer had enough sense to diagnose it correctly, then i may have been within the warranty timeframe.
i have a call into there service manager, but of course they haven't called me back yet. and due to timing (have to leave tomorrow) i couldn't wait around and just ordered one. i'm hoping i can get a credit later. it'll be a battle.
 
i'm sorry to hear your problem continues to trouble you dano.
i was fearing the same. i have a new O2 coming in today and will install.
i have been running with the rear O2 disconnected for the last day and a half and have not experienced the problem. my next question is, i wonder what may have caused the premature failure? maybe the dealer had dirty hands when he installed it? the sensor was only about 8 months old before it started crapping out. it was installed at the same time i installed the taitec headers as well. is there any known problems due to the headers affecting the rear O2?

btw dano, i changed all of my coils (waste). if you want to use my old ones to test, let me know. just shoot me a pm.

thanks,
james
 
nsxparts.com said:
Perhaps we should compile a "Hesitation checklist" and outline each test. This would help others troubleshoot their problems. Each car will have different failures at different times, and if all systems are not functioning properly the hesitation yeild will be simular. The checklist will help eliminate all possible (or common) problems.
Click to expand...

What we need to do is gather up some cash. Purchase 6 coils, ignitor, 02 sensors, etc... and have them available for us to use for testing. A sizable deposit would be needed to insure their safe return, as well as a small rental fee. If you replace 3 coils and resolve your problem, you either send back the coils or the funds needed to replace them. Or the amount would just be removed from the deposit to purchase new ones. I just spent $50 to purchase 3 used coils to test the same exact problem James is having without success. I'd pay $50 just to know what the hell is wrong (or not wrong) with my car.

I know, crazy idea. It's just costly to trouble shoot electrical stuff sometimes, and having all of the known parts available would make for a speedy resolution is some cases. Besides, you can't return electrical items, so you are stuck with things you can't return. Maybe one of the vendors could make this work????
 
pixelhaus said:
my next question is, i wonder what may have caused the premature failure? maybe the dealer had dirty hands when he installed it? the sensor was only about 8 months old before it started crapping out. it was installed at the same time i installed the taitec headers as well. is there any known problems due to the headers affecting the rear O2?
Click to expand...

NSX runs rich so that's hard on the O2...however I would have thought the headers would probably lean things out a little. The only other thing is if you are running a high octane gas like 94 you might want to consider going back down to 91 as the engine my be having trouble burning it and fouling the sensor quickly
 
sorry for the delay in getting back with results. i just returned from my trip to the grand prix. what a day that was leaving to the race! i took another chance and overnighted the O2 sensor, drove down to acura in the morning, jetted home and put it in. reset the ecu and to my pleasant surprise, no problems! then, to further complicate my day, HRE overnighted my replacement wheels (i'll give a detailed write up later for those interested in HRE wheels) which also arrived that morning and i had my local rim shop mount the tires. all this before noon.

anyway, back to the topic. it has been around 2k miles, and the sensor seems to have been the problem. thanks to everyone that offered their input. MDM (mechanics direct modifiers) gave me a lot of their time and highly suggested testing the O2. (many others gave a lot of their precious time as well -- mark basch, chris willson, larry bastanza, ty, and others)

hopefully the O2 will last longer than the last one did (8months). i hope their isn't a larger issue lurking which actually contributed to the failure of the last sensor. i guess we'll see.

it's really great to be a part of a group that reaches out to help another member in need. i was really amazed at how much time everyone offered to help diagnose the problem. very cool.

thanks again.

james
 

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