DMS Performance intake manifold

[dmscrx]

Few more questions. For a daily driver like my NSX that is operated in winter, there are some things that are not clear with the Infinity system.

1. The stock manifold has two cold idle control devices, the FITV and EACV. They have separate ports on the manifold. The FITV is a simple thermowax plunger that is bathed in coolant and sets idle at 2,000 rpm when dead cold and gradually cuts out once coolant is at around 185F. The EACV will add 300-800 rpm to the idle when cold and appears to act in concert with the FITV until coolant temp reaches normal. How does the Infinity manage cold idle? Is it all through the EACV?

2. The EACV also manages idle when the A/C clutch engages and when the alternator is charging. The factory ECU has volt inputs for both of these conditions. Does the Infinity take these into account? In other words can you set the Infinity to blip the idle when the A/C kicks on and/or when the alternator is charging?

3. How does the Infinity manage cold starts? Will it adjust mixture for ambient air temp? Does your manifold have a port for the factory intake air temp sensor?

You mentioned you will include an EACV port, so I assume it is for these functions using the stock unit? I guess I want to understand better how the Infinity manages these OEM functions.

I honestly don't know why Honda uses a fast idle thermo valve on some of the models but not all of them, like the Integra type R, but idle control is just fine with or without it. I am constantly removing them and welding the ports on customer cars when they go bad to save them the headache of idle surging when they stick open. To answer your question in this regard, no I do not incorporate the FITV because it is not needed and makes the install simpler. My NSX starts and idles just fine without it. You just input a little more duty cycle to the Idle control valve through the Infinity or adjust the throttle stay. You could even get rid of it in the factory setup and the ECU will compensate for idle just fine without it, even in winter. I made the decision to remote mount the IACV with this manifold for two reasons: 1. looks, because the valve can be remote mounted and tucked away which clashes the look of the manifold. 2. Because the valve is remote mounted the coolant lines running to it will not transfer the heat energy to the manifold.
The Infinity can compensate for electrical load and also A/C load no problem and my A/C works just fine with it There are settings in the USER GPO's table as well as custom 3d tables to do whatever the hell you wish under these conditions.It can also compensate for low and high voltage situations as well (ex. injector voltage offset) and has compensation tables for coolant temp and air temp as every management system should. You can even install a pressure sensor in the airbox and have additional compensation if you wish.
This manifold does have a spot for the factory IAT and it mounts into the plenum where the factory connector plugs in without alteration. To answer your questions about driveability, it runs better than stock and I can drive it every day if I wish. It even has better throttle response than it before the manifold install. The only noticeable difference (other than the power increase) is the throttle pedal will feel a little more stiff due to the stronger return spring in the new throttle body which will loosen up over time as it gets driven. Hope this answers your questions.

 

[scammy]

Two questions; I would like to know the weight of your design vs the OEM unit is there much of a difference?
Also would the thicker thermal gaskets that some vendors have to stop heat transfer affect the flow or fitment in a negative way.
Cheers

*like this one http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...d-upgrade-kit?highlight=thermal+intake+gasket

 

[Honcho]

I honestly don't know why Honda uses a fast idle thermo valve on some of the models but not all of them, like the Integra type R, but idle control is just fine with or without it. I am constantly removing them and welding the ports on customer cars when they go bad to save them the headache of idle surging when they stick open. To answer your question in this regard, no I do not incorporate the FITV because it is not needed and makes the install simpler. My NSX starts and idles just fine without it. You just input a little more duty cycle to the Idle control valve through the Infinity or adjust the throttle stay. You could even get rid of it in the factory setup and the ECU will compensate for idle just fine without it, even in winter. I made the decision to remote mount the IACV with this manifold for two reasons: 1. looks, because the valve can be remote mounted and tucked away which clashes the look of the manifold. 2. Because the valve is remote mounted the coolant lines running to it will not transfer the heat energy to the manifold.
The Infinity can compensate for electrical load and also A/C load no problem and my A/C works just fine with it There are settings in the USER GPO's table as well as custom 3d tables to do whatever the hell you wish under these conditions.It can also compensate for low and high voltage situations as well (ex. injector voltage offset) and has compensation tables for coolant temp and air temp as every management system should. You can even install a pressure sensor in the airbox and have additional compensation if you wish.
This manifold does have a spot for the factory IAT and it mounts into the plenum where the factory connector plugs in without alteration. To answer your questions about driveability, it runs better than stock and I can drive it every day if I wish. It even has better throttle response than it before the manifold install. The only noticeable difference (other than the power increase) is the throttle pedal will feel a little more stiff due to the stronger return spring in the new throttle body which will loosen up over time as it gets driven. Hope this answers your questions.

Wow, great answers thanks! I'm seriously considering your Manifold/Infinity setup as my next mod. What about CEL function? I read on AEM's site that the Infinity has the ability to detect errors and light the CEL, but not sure how it would work. Do you plug in the laptop to read what the problem is? For example, if one of the O2 sensors goes out, how does the Infinity let you know? Total engine protection is an Infinity feature I'm really excited about. I have several friends running them on dedicated track cars and have said it literally saved their engines on several failure occasions.

Edit-

Also, where do the vacuum hoses connect on your TB/Manifold setup? Not clear from the limited photos. I assume you are using the factory MAP and other sensors? Any thoughts on updating with AEM sensors, or do the OEM units work ok?

 

[Tysama]

DMSCRX,

If you are able to confirm the following are all OK, place me on the list for your Manifold and appropriate Throttle Body.

As my 93 is RHD and I have never seen a LHD NSX throttle cable set up please confirm this will not create any problems for me.

Also that your production model manifold will work without issues with RDX injectors.

Please also let me know if, at this stage, you have any idea of when we could expect to take delivery.

 

[dmscrx]

Two questions; I would like to know the weight of your design vs the OEM unit is there much of a difference?
Also would the thicker thermal gaskets that some vendors have to stop heat transfer affect the flow or fitment in a negative way.
Cheers

*like this one http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...d-upgrade-kit?highlight=thermal+intake+gasket

There is a huge difference in weight. Last time I weighed the manifold (without throttle body or fittings) it weighed 12 lbs. I am using the factory phenolic gasket with nylon washers for the bolts and nuts, and the intake temps and surface temps are where I like them. I don't think that little bit of gained thickness with the other gaskets will affect flow in a way that would cause a negative gain.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, great answers thanks! I'm seriously considering your Manifold/Infinity setup as my next mod. What about CEL function? I read on AEM's site that the Infinity has the ability to detect errors and light the CEL, but not sure how it would work. Do you plug in the laptop to read what the problem is? For example, if one of the O2 sensors goes out, how does the Infinity let you know? Total engine protection is an Infinity feature I'm really excited about. I have several friends running them on dedicated track cars and have said it literally saved their engines on several failure occasions.

Edit-

Also, where do the vacuum hoses connect on your TB/Manifold setup? Not clear from the limited photos. I assume you are using the factory MAP and other sensors? Any thoughts on updating with AEM sensors, or do the OEM units work ok?

Yes, there is an MIL output function that can be used to show sensor failures, out-of-parameter sensor readings, lean conditions, overboost, low oil pressure, etc. All can be tailored to suit your needs. Engine protection is a nice feature to have and the Infinity I'm sure will satisfy in that regard.

All the of vacuum connections are made under the plenum out of sight and I am using all factory sensors except for the MAP and the TPS. The map I changed due to the fact I intend on running a lot of boost, and the TPS was changed because the new throttle body has it on the opposite side. The throttle body that comes with the manifold package includes the new TPS sensor which is nice. The stock NSX map can be used (AEM says) with the new firmware, but I have yet to test that. The NSX map sensor reads differently than the other Honda ones, but that is an easy and cheap piece to change (B, D, H, F, GM, etc's will do) if it doesn't work.

- - - Updated - - -

DMSCRX,

If you are able to confirm the following are all OK, place me on the list for your Manifold and appropriate Throttle Body.

As my 93 is RHD and I have never seen a LHD NSX throttle cable set up please confirm this will not create any problems for me.




Also that your production model manifold will work without issues with RDX injectors.

Please also let me know if, at this stage, you have any idea of when we could expect to take delivery.

My RC injectors were in my stock manifold, then transferred to the new one. So if RDX injectors work with the stock one, then they will work with mine. The only thing you may need to play with are spacers and/or O-rings.
As far as delivery goes, I need to get a number of people on board with the group buy before I can get the first batch done. Once I have enough to get things rolling then I can get the first batch done. From that time, two to four weeks.
I cannot guarantee that this manifold will work with RHD, but I am positive Honda did not make a whole new intake manifold just for that purpose. I will bet that they are the same. The only thing that matters on your throttle cable is the distance from the end that connects to the throttle body to the threaded adjustment part. Worst case scenario you just need to compensate with an additional bracket. Also the throttle body that comes with this package has different slots for different length cables which would take care of any variances. That can be done before the manifold is even installed. Hope this helps.

 

[Tysama]

OK, you have now confirmed what I was thinking anyway. I really support what you have developed so start your list off and place me down for the kit. (I will source my own ECU as the tuners in Australia have different preferences to your guys)

 

[Mr2NSX]

I too appreciate what you're doing for the NSX community. This is a great product, especially with your BIGGER throttle body options including the DBW. So I'll take one for a 97 DBW with your ECU.

pete

 

[dmscrx]

So here is the list so far:

1. Tsyama
2. Mr2NSX
3. NA1MT

I am expecting delivery of at least two manifolds to get things started in the next coming week or so. I don't know how long I can keep the price down on everything since quantity will keep the manufacturer happy with their profit margin. I don't expect it change anytime soon (hopefully) I'm going to post a few more pictures of it installed on my NSX too.

 

[dmscrx]

I've been getting a few requests for more pictures so here are a couple more that are relevant to how everything is presented once it is installed. Again, this is just my setup and you can install things a little differently if you wish. Take note to where my IAC and Igniter are mounted.

 

[Juice]

Fap, fap, fap,......

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

Wow, looks nice, I'll be sure to swing by when I'm up north next week. Rumor has it you have a beautiful silver car there that has a fully built motor, turbo, and all the bells and whistles you're doing work on. Can't wait to see the transformation!

 

[dmscrx]

Wow, looks nice, I'll be sure to swing by when I'm up north next week. Rumor has it you have a beautiful silver car there that has a fully built motor, turbo, and all the bells and whistles you're doing work on. Can't wait to see the transformation!

Haha possibly

 

[Tysama]

With an aim to gain the most out of my engine without opening it and also remaining NA I have followed this thread with interest all along.

Excited to say I just ordered the full package from DMSCRX -- manifold, throttle body, injectors, infinity, all harnesses etc (The whole PNP package)

I genuinely cannot say enough about how helpful and professional I have found this new vendor to be. Even my tuner (Highly regarding over here) has been impressed by his knowledge and honesty.

I will complete a dyno base run for comparison before fitting everything then post the results.

 

[dmscrx]

Mr2NSX has been taken off of the list. For now the first batch of 2 manifolds are accounted for ( yay ) and I am not having any more made per the group buy starting Jan.1st 2015. Beyond that, the price is going to go up due to lack of interest. What the price goes up to I have yet to determine, but from that day forward manifolds will be done on a single order basis only. Thanks to all for the support so far.

 

[dmscrx]

I will be doing a back to back test on this forced induction NSX with Lovefab LF1200 kit. I will be doing a baseline first with the stock intake manifold and AEM Infinity then the DMS manifold goes on and will be tested with the same boost pressure. Results to follow very soon.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

Can't wait to see the results!

 

[Juice]

Subscribed! I think FI is where this piece will truly shine. I don't understand why there aren't any more takers for this package; this is the most exciting part to be created for the NSX in a while.

 

[NA1MT]

Once everyone sees what it does on my car I think they'll be lined up to buy. My expectations are to make power up to my normal redline of 8200rpms which has been diminished accordinding to Cody as a result of the stroker setup. Granted it makes gobs more torque much sooner than our stock motors at that trade off. If it does what is expected with the new manifold and makes power even beyond the stock rev limit I will be stoked!

 

[JoseJA1979]

^^^ How much more power do you need though? Honestly...lol

 

[NA1MT]

^^^ How much more power do you need though? Honestly...lol

There are a lot of really nasty cars around here. Nobody likes to be low man on the totem pole.....lol. I want to see it at its potential. It will be set up with a wastegate switch, so most of the time I will be at 10psi anyway

 

[dmscrx]

I have done the new baseline with the Infinity and the stock intake manifold. The next change will be just the intake manifold and tuned on the same fuel. The dyno results from just the Infinity can be found here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...y-options-and-kits-for-NSX-by-DMS-Performance
More to come!

 

[dmscrx]

It's here!!!!

 

[solidol]

This looks great. How much does it weight btw? Stock unit is pretty heavy.

 

[dmscrx]

This looks great. How much does it weight btw? Stock unit is pretty heavy.

16LBS, about half the weight of the stock one

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

Must...resist... Great weight savings, and more power!