Do you believe the GTR is the 1st Japanese Supercar?

[VegasSpeed]

Or was the NSX the first Supercar that Japan produced? I had the discussion with someone recently and it was talked about on Jaylenosgarage when he reviewed the GTR. He claimed that due to the low horsepower engine that it didn't qualify as one. Let me know if this the wrong place for this thread.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Neither car is a supercar. The Nsx is an exotic, hand assembled all aluminum car with only 270-90hp will propel 3000lbs to 170mph. The GTR is in the corvette league big power no looks IMO

Supercar = F50 CGT Enzo

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I too think the NSX was the first true Japanese Exotic but feel that the GT-R is a supercar. Even though it(GTR) doesn't have the 'look' of a supercar, due to it's performance cababilities it should qualify as one.

 

[Mugen-R]

1st or 2nd, doesnt matter to me. i am instead anxiously awaiting Honda's response to the GTR. its great because Nissan has raised the bar to a new level, and maybe Honda might follow suit and keep the "NSX" name and mystique.

 

[skillz4587]

I guess I maybe a little bias but I would consider the NSX a supercar regardless of the horsepower. Below is actually a thread that has an email from honda(bias also :biggrin: ) that states that they consider it a supercar.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-41723.html

In my opinion it really more interpretation and opinion. I am sure you can make your case either way on if the nsx is a supercar or not. And there is probably numerous definitions of supercars available. But when I look at the NSX I see supercar. Yes, compared to the current cars the NSX is lacking in,top speed, 0-60 acceleration and horsepower but when it first came out in 1991, I thought it was able to hold its own with the other supercars in the 1990s both performance and looks wise. I could be wrong but I can't imagine many cars from the early 90s that would blow the doors off the NSX.

But as far as the "supercar title is concerned, I look at it like this; 5 years from now when there are faster cars and with more horsepower available, is the GTR still going to be as desirable as when it first came out? Imo, probably not. I could be wrong but I just don't see it. I am not putting the car down because I wouldn't mind having one myself. I just don't think it will keep my interest as long as the NSX. Now lets take the NSX, over 15 years later it still gets compliments and is still a very desirable car. That is one of the things I would consider as far as defining a supercar, how it holds up in time as new technology comes out. No matter how fast a car is it is just a matter of time until faster cars come out. I know this has been said so many times already but this car was way ahead of its time. When I look at the Ferrari Dino, or the gt40 I am still amazed at their designs. Hopefully the same will be said for the NSX 30 years from now.

 

[NSXGMS]

1st or 2nd, doesnt matter to me. i am instead anxiously awaiting Honda's response to the GTR. its great because Nissan has raised the bar to a new level, and maybe Honda might follow suit and keep the "NSX" name and mystique.

Don't hold your breath...

Honda has already done away with the NSX mystique by associating the ASCC with it. The NSX as we know it is dead.

I will say that the NSX was far from ever being the world's fastest production car unlike the GT-R. I suppose the case can be made that the world's fastest car is automatically a supercar.

 

[enesexdreamer]

I have a supercar book that has an NSX in it. So it must be a supercar

 

[fullracehonda]

speaking of the nsx, is the new one going to be called an nsx?

it seems odd that a automaker would change such a car from mid engine v6 to front engine v10 and keep the same name,

 

[NSXkkk]

it seems like everyone is waiting for the next honda's supercar. but the current US economy situation maybe be negligent. we know that honda produced around 18000 NSXs. US is the big market for honda. if people wont be able to make more money, will they be able to afford a 100k supercar again. people mentioned that they are stuck at designing it. it is possible that they are waiting for the best time to announce it and bring it into the market. just personal opinion.
but i know that toyota's sales been dropped by around 10% recently.

 

[Da Hapa]

I'm sure someone else can dig up the quote but as I recall Gordon Murray called the NSX a supercar and that's good enough for me.

 

[NSXkkk]

personally, i dont like GT-R's looking. but its performance shows their engineering 's effort. it's heavier than 911turbo and faster.

front engine seems pretty hard to be accepted as a supercar.

i think MB SLR is a great one. i saw one in pasadena. really nice.

 

[BD]

Again, this question comes up over and over and over and over and over....

Is NSX a supercar? Define supercar!

Lamborghini Muira back in the 60's was pertty fast, but slow in today's standard, lots of people considered it the very first super car ever built!!! 0-60mph at 6.7 seconds.

Ferrari Testarossa was considered a Supercar back in the 80's, but the NSX out performed it in EVERY aspect other than the top speed.

Ferrari F40 was considered a supercar but today, an entry level F430 is faster and safer in almost every aspect other than the Historical value.

Gordon Murray and Ayrton Senna called the NSX a "supercar" back in the days; in fact, Gordon Murray still called it a "supercar."

Does the president of United States loose his title as president of US after he step down.

Does Ferrari F40 loose its title as the King of all super cars when cheaper/faster cars become available?

Get my drift?

People have tendency to forget old timers when new and fresh products are made.

Here is a kicker, is MB AMG SL63 a super car? Is BMW M5 a Supercar? Considering the fact that they are pertty damn fast, faster than probably 99% of the cars in the market, but most of us will not consider them super cars.

Just pick up any Road and Track, C&D prior to 2002/2003, read the combine stats at the end of each Magazine, YOU WILL NOT find that many cars that can out run a NSX (specially the Zanardi edition) even in the acceleration department. Off of top of my head: 911TT, Viper, Z06, Diablo, 360, McLaren.... and that's about it!!! But guess what? Those cars did not beat the NSX in acceleration test by a wide margin. In most cases, those car did not break the 4.0 second 0-60 barrier. The best time for the NSX is 4.5 by C&D and 4.4 for EVO NSX-R test.

In my opinion, GTR is a budget super car that can do the job right!!! It is the Costco of retail center, PF Chang's of Chinese restaurants, Honda Accord of Mid size sedan, a straight A student from a State college. All around it does every thing well, in a spectacular fashion, but also flawed in many ways. For most car enthusiasts, it will never steal their heart like the way a GT3, F430, a Gallardo, or even a NSX would. It's a Nissan without the Nissan soul; it has lost every virtue of the R32-R34 that every one loved. It has adapted Renault's concept of a Supercar for the semi poor; therefore, it has to be big, a family hauler, room for giants, and every unnecessary gadget that is cool!!!

Unlike NSX, the GTR has plenty of flaws; Nissan/Renault addressed the issues by addition electronic aids, which in term, a major flaw – about 800lbs!!!

Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not!!! But is it some thing a GOOD car manufacture would do? Absolutely not!!! There is a reason why cars such as F40, McLaren, F430, and even the NSX can achieve its performance figures without any electronic gadgets. They don't have 4WS, 4WD, Blue Tooth, G meter, massive extra 800lbs of fat, etc, in fact, some of them don't even have ABS because the car is light!!!

GTR is a wonderful car, it is a car with Supercar performance without the price, which again by natured, flawed…

I like own one along side with my NSX, but I’ll tell you what, if I ever have to choose one of them for the PAG car meet, I’ll take my NSX every time!!!

The NSX is not only a supercar, but a supercar with historical value!!! A supercar that changed the landscape of all Supercars!!!

 

[NSXrunner]

Nope. :biggrin:

 

[westernb4]

I didn't know what a GTR was until I encountered this thread.

Googled it, and thought that the car looked strikingly ugly.

I have no idea about its performance.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I didn't know what a GTR was until I encountered this thread.

Googled it, and thought that the car looked strikingly ugly.

I have no idea about its performance.

Although you've been living in a cave, your eyesight is still good.

From the supercar wiki.

Supercar is a term generally used for a high-end sports car, whose performance is highly superior to that of its contemporaries. It has been defined specifically as "a very expensive, fast or powerful car with a centrally located engine"[1], and stated in more general terms: "it must be very fast, with sporting handling to match," "it should be sleek and eye-catching" and its price should be "one in a rarified atmosphere of its own."[2] but the proper application of the term is subjective and disputed, especially among enthusiasts. The use of the term can be dependent on the era; a vehicle that may have been considered a supercar in one decade may not be considered the same in another decade.[citation needed] The term supercar may refer to factory-built, street-legal sports cars.[3] Some supercars include some of the features required for race cars, like the roll cage, [4] while other supercars are in general race cars with only the minimum legal required modifications made (e.g. meeting emission regulations, legal tires, limited exhaust note) to be street legal

 

[sproston]

Alright, which one of you snuck in and put that reference to a centrally located engine :biggrin:

 

[jond]

Every major magazine out there has called the NSX a supercar. Maybe Jeremy Clarkson is wrong. Maybe Gordon Murray(designer of the McLaren F1) is wrong. Serious people, it's a supercar. Although old, it's a supercar.
If the NSX isn't, then neither is a Ferrari 355, 360, F430, etc, etc.

As far as the new GTR being a supercar. No. It's no more a supercar than a GM Z06. Sure the GTR is fast, but it's mass produced and has a steel frame.

 

[MartinSD]

Greetings

I would call the 4th generation (1995 -- 1999) a supercar. The R33 edition made 450 horsepower, would run 198 MPH, and go 0 -- 60 in 4.0 seconds. That was amazing performance for its day.

Cheers,
Martin

 

[ChongLee]

I'd consider the NSX, yes.

It came out with "Super" status and stayed that way timeless,
even if today's cars are producing way more horsepower.

" I was born Asian. I will always be Asian. "

 

[MoreRPMs]

Neither car is a supercar. The Nsx is an exotic, hand assembled all aluminum car with only 270-90hp will propel 3000lbs to 170mph. The GTR is in the corvette league big power no looks IMO

Supercar = F50 CGT Enzo

Agreed. Malibu Rapper's post referencing Wikipedia's definition confirms the fact that neither car is anywhere near a supercar for its time. Although if Nissan's Nurburgring times prove to be accurate one can maybe make the case that the GTR may be one simply because of its times bettering what are considered today's supercars. The NSX, on the other hand, never showed numbers approaching anywhere near the supercars of its time (959, F40) - which were actually debuted a few years before 1990.

 

[KooLaid]

Jay Leno may be a great car enthusiast with massive amounts of toys and cash BUT he's a big wooshy washy push over of a car guy. Like a high school kid with way too much cash.

 

[BD]

Super car = A high performance car with special characteristic such as construction material, construction method, and performance NOT only based on acceleration but also handling.
NSX, Porsche 911 GT2/3, Lambo, Ferrari, Bentley coupe, Corvette C6 ZR1/Z06, Viper GTS, Cobra, etc.

Exotic car = A high price vehicle that is RARE. Can possess the quality of supercar, or some times completely lack of the Supercar quality.
GT2/3(Great) vs. XJ15(Crap)
In some cases, a sedan can be count as Exotic car, such as Maybach, Bentley, RR, etc. Also includes one off vehicle based on a production cars, such as Ferrari Station wagan, Testarossa Convertible.

What's missing here is:
HYPER CAR - Completely hand built, with CF chassis or other super exotic materials, for one purpose only - GO AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, speed achievement based on the highest technology a manufacture can produce. This category of vehicles also possess the quality of both Super car and Exotic car!!!
F40/50/Enzo, CGT, Zonda, 959, S7, etc.

Sub Category often overlooked - Not quite a super car due to some kind of handicap (handling, construction material / method / production quantity):
Muscle cars that are almost a supercar, but not quite there: Corvette, Viper, AMG, BMW M, Supera, all Skyline, etc.

 

[NeoNSX]

The NSX was a supercar.
The GT-R is not.

You've read this on the internet so it must be true.

 

[fullracehonda]

it seems like everyone is waiting for the next honda's supercar. but the current US economy situation maybe be negligent. we know that honda produced around 18000 NSXs. US is the big market for honda. if people wont be able to make more money, will they be able to afford a 100k supercar again. people mentioned that they are stuck at designing it. it is possible that they are waiting for the best time to announce it and bring it into the market. just personal opinion.
but i know that toyota's sales been dropped by around 10% recently.

the gtr is not going to have any problem selling, and this is probably the worst the economy is going to get when the gtr is finaly availble for sale.


the only reason the nsx would have a hard time selling is if honda imported 100,000 of them the first day they were availible at the dealer and they cost 200,000


i think its taking long just because honda has such high goals for this car, im sure they didnt design the origional nsx overnight, and its going to be so much more difficult to design the new nsx compared to the last one, performance is 10x higher today than in the late 80's/early 90's, after all how many family cars run 12's now straight off the showroom floor

 

[BD]

the gtr is not going to have any problem selling, and this is probably the worst the economy is going to get when the gtr is finaly availble for sale.


the only reason the nsx would have a hard time selling is if honda imported 100,000 of them the first day they were availible at the dealer and they cost 200,000


i think its taking long just because honda has such high goals for this car, im sure they didnt design the origional nsx overnight, and its going to be so much more difficult to design the new nsx compared to the last one, performance is 10x higher today than in the late 80's/early 90's, after all how many family cars run 12's now straight off the showroom floor

Again, the NSX sold really well during the first two years, far exceeded Honda's expectation.

And...

how to you make some thing so perfect, even more perfect?

The solution is rather simple for those who really don't want Honda to use the name "NSX" again for the new front engine car... Just toss a CTSC on the car, or do a TODA package:biggrin: