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E92 M3 or 2005 NSX from m3forum.net
- Thread starter Deltron Zero
- Start date
Its funny how one of the guys was saying he will never own a japanese car again and they are junk.....the thing is he owned a 89 supra....I mean what do u expect?
I liked how one the the guys who use to own a 2002 NSX was complaining about no back seats and getting too much attention.......lol......
for the most part those guys knows whats up......I agree with them NSX + Turbo = get the F out of the way street or track killer.
I have to say I got love for M3's also.....I have ridden in a 1990 white M3 brand new and modded when it was out.....driven a brand new 1999 Estoril blue M3 and driven a new 2002 or 2003 Carbon Black M3 6 speed. Those cars make great daily drivers, but it does not give the exotic feel of an NSX, Ferrari, or Lambo does.
M3's in cali are like seeing porsches.....they are everywhere and a lot of highschool or college kids are driving around in one.....so its like big deal.....
I am not knocking them at all, just saying they don't do anything for me.....even the newest one which is V8 and fast it still doesnt do anything for me.....would make a great daily driver though. I have always like the M3 but compared to the NSX no way......
I would like to see one of the 3.8L strokers against the new M3. That would be an interesting match.
I liked how one the the guys who use to own a 2002 NSX was complaining about no back seats and getting too much attention.......lol......
for the most part those guys knows whats up......I agree with them NSX + Turbo = get the F out of the way street or track killer.
I have to say I got love for M3's also.....I have ridden in a 1990 white M3 brand new and modded when it was out.....driven a brand new 1999 Estoril blue M3 and driven a new 2002 or 2003 Carbon Black M3 6 speed. Those cars make great daily drivers, but it does not give the exotic feel of an NSX, Ferrari, or Lambo does.
M3's in cali are like seeing porsches.....they are everywhere and a lot of highschool or college kids are driving around in one.....so its like big deal.....
I am not knocking them at all, just saying they don't do anything for me.....even the newest one which is V8 and fast it still doesnt do anything for me.....would make a great daily driver though. I have always like the M3 but compared to the NSX no way......
I would like to see one of the 3.8L strokers against the new M3. That would be an interesting match.
I see there's a good group of Bimmers who like the NSX still. I've driven the 2003+ M3 and I was very dissappointed. It was the first I've ever driven. It really felt like driving a Sudan. The handling was no were near the NSX IMO.
I've heard that they drove like boats, but I don't know about comparing it to driving a country in northeastern Africa. I mean, how do you even do that?
Well, I'm glad to see mostly mature and knowledgable responses. I've gained a little more respect for the M3 owners. :smile:
Speaking of, I really like the M's. I hope to pick something BMW as my next daily driver.
Speaking of, I really like the M's. I hope to pick something BMW as my next daily driver.
Exactly, I felt like I was driving a speed boat. The NSX feels like a shifter Kart and the M3 to me was like a fast tank or boat.....I am waiting for my cousin to dump his E46 to get the E92 so I can see what the new one is all about.
I do have to give it to the M cars though....looks nice, pretty quick, and offers room for four with all these luxury comforts.
Exotics are suppose to be raw, simple and performance oriented. You want extra luggage space or cappucino maker? then go buy a mercedes or bmw.
I don't see my friend with his F40 complaining about not having space or room for four people or the unwanted attention.....people are so dumb.....I am glad we don't have some of guys like those who own NSX's.....
I do have to give it to the M cars though....looks nice, pretty quick, and offers room for four with all these luxury comforts.
Exotics are suppose to be raw, simple and performance oriented. You want extra luggage space or cappucino maker? then go buy a mercedes or bmw.
I don't see my friend with his F40 complaining about not having space or room for four people or the unwanted attention.....people are so dumb.....I am glad we don't have some of guys like those who own NSX's.....
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I know some of you guys owned the 01-05 models. I'm interested in picking up a new car soon and this is one of the choices on my list, mainly the 02-03 models... What can you tell me about reliability and maintenance costs? I've seen few in the 60K miles range that seem affordable but i'm still a bit weary of german engineering...
I know some of you guys owned the 01-05 models. I'm interested in picking up a new car soon and this is one of the choices on my list, mainly the 02-03 models... What can you tell me about reliability and maintenance costs? I've seen few in the 60K miles range that seem affordable but i'm still a bit weary of german engineering...
I know several M3 owners and they won't buy an M3 unless its covered under a factory warranty. As soon as the warranty comes up, they trade it.
as a Bimmer owner and NSX fan
I will add my two cents. I own a Dinan 3(335i coupe) and I have driven a few NSX's. My friend has a nice turbo setup that I would like to try out too. I have some experience with the new M3 as I almost bought that instead. I think the E92's are great cars whether you get what I have or an M3. The M3 feels pretty much the same as my car minus the heavy torque. It has better electronic features for traction control and such.
Anyway, I love the NSX and I have always been a fan however, the car is out of date by today's standards. The interior didn't change much from 91-2005. The car didn't change a drastic amount from 91-2005 either internally. The NSX has a great style but you either love it or hate it usually. The stock versions of the car just aren't fast enough for me though. A forced induction version is the best of both worlds. The engine needed an update around 2001 I thought. It was at that point it started to get behind other cars performance wise. If you drive the two they feel completely different but I like the BMW more. It doesn't have to do with a backseat but rather the car feels more comfortable to me. The NSX is great car either way but I would rather have the new E92 these days.
I will add my two cents. I own a Dinan 3(335i coupe) and I have driven a few NSX's. My friend has a nice turbo setup that I would like to try out too. I have some experience with the new M3 as I almost bought that instead. I think the E92's are great cars whether you get what I have or an M3. The M3 feels pretty much the same as my car minus the heavy torque. It has better electronic features for traction control and such.
Anyway, I love the NSX and I have always been a fan however, the car is out of date by today's standards. The interior didn't change much from 91-2005. The car didn't change a drastic amount from 91-2005 either internally. The NSX has a great style but you either love it or hate it usually. The stock versions of the car just aren't fast enough for me though. A forced induction version is the best of both worlds. The engine needed an update around 2001 I thought. It was at that point it started to get behind other cars performance wise. If you drive the two they feel completely different but I like the BMW more. It doesn't have to do with a backseat but rather the car feels more comfortable to me. The NSX is great car either way but I would rather have the new E92 these days.
Both are fine cars. Best thing to do is own both. :biggrin: I drove my M3 last night up and down Kanan Rd and it was heaven, the car is a masterpiece... Made me feel the same way as when I first got my NSX.
I don't think it's really that bad. I've owned 2 so far out of warranty. None required any major repairs. If you go to a dealer for repair/service you will get hosed. Lucky for me I found a good shop that specializes in BMWs that doesn't overcharge, is extremely knowledgeable and fast.
Re: as a Bimmer owner and NSX fan
Reasonable comments from the M3 crowd. Of course, I think they are just the type of enthusiasts that the NSX would appeal to.
From a sports car standpoint, the NSX has one of the best interiors designed, IMHO. It's not a luxury car or a sports coupe. Everything needed to hustle the car around the track is exactly in the right place and all the controls intuitive. Visibility is excellent. But I will grant you that the NSX needed an engine update - right around '97.:frown:
Reasonable comments from the M3 crowd. Of course, I think they are just the type of enthusiasts that the NSX would appeal to.
From a sports car standpoint, the NSX has one of the best interiors designed, IMHO. It's not a luxury car or a sports coupe. Everything needed to hustle the car around the track is exactly in the right place and all the controls intuitive. Visibility is excellent. But I will grant you that the NSX needed an engine update - right around '97.:frown:
Here is the best comment yet:
"
Sorry man, Japanese cars just dont do it for me. I would rather have a 335 than an NSX. I will always buy German engineering (BMW/Porsche)! That is until I can afford Italian(Ferrari)!
__________________
2008 M3 sedan SSII/Black
2007 X3 Si
2001 330Ci-sold
1989 Toyota Supra -sold
1990 Chevy 1500 454SS-Sold"
HA HA HA HA HA HA
"
Sorry man, Japanese cars just dont do it for me. I would rather have a 335 than an NSX. I will always buy German engineering (BMW/Porsche)! That is until I can afford Italian(Ferrari)!
__________________
2008 M3 sedan SSII/Black
2007 X3 Si
2001 330Ci-sold
1989 Toyota Supra -sold
1990 Chevy 1500 454SS-Sold"
HA HA HA HA HA HA
- Joined
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I liked that thread. I've never driven an E92 M3 so I don't have much credibility but I've driven the E92 335i and 328i and they're meh. I drove it hard and it felt like a boat. Though the 335i has all the torque, I didn't feel a connection between me and the car. I also drove the E36 M3, that felt like a boat too even with some good coilovers. I hate the fact that its so hard to heel-toe because the gas pedal is not hanging like most japanese cars are.
But if I do decide to get a BMtroubleU (hehe, I just read that somewhere), I'm only getting the E46 M3 with a kit and wheels. I think they're just too good looking.
niM
But if I do decide to get a BMtroubleU (hehe, I just read that somewhere), I'm only getting the E46 M3 with a kit and wheels. I think they're just too good looking.
niM
One can see from my sig that I currently own 2 Bimmers along with the new-to-me NSX, and have driven and ridden in plenty of M3s (but not the E90/92... yet) on the street and track.
I've only had one 30-min track session in a NSX (and won't be out with mine for another month), but even under 4/10ths driving thus far, it's definitely something else. I really regret not buying one sooner. I'd personally put it in the same class as a 911GT3, but with a much lighter clutch.
Leaving the E30M3 out for the moment (simply 'cause it's really a 70s car; stock and in equal hands, my 325 wagon can beat it around the track), the thing that M3s have few equals in is that it's about as multi-purpose with minimal compromise as you can get. Haul 600lbs of cement, some fenceposts, your kid in a child seat and a couple bags of groceries one day, drive 500 miles in quiet, civilized comfort at 25+MPG the next, then run low-2min lap times around Sears Point the next.
And, IMO, those capabilities feel more 'baked-in' than an AMG or Audi RS, where it'll do the first two just fine, but feels cobbled-together to accomplish the 3rd. As the answer to the "If you could only have one car" question, the M3 has few rivals.
As for running costs, a M3 compared to its non-M equivalent (not compared to a Civic) really isn't that bad. Aside from the motor, they're mostly plain 3-series. I know plenty of daily-drive E36M3s with 200k+ on the clock, and E46s in the 6 digits. My 325's been out of warranty for 3yrs/35k miles, and I've spent ~$1k on it in that time, including a (used) set of Pilot Sport 2s.
I've only had one 30-min track session in a NSX (and won't be out with mine for another month), but even under 4/10ths driving thus far, it's definitely something else. I really regret not buying one sooner. I'd personally put it in the same class as a 911GT3, but with a much lighter clutch.
Leaving the E30M3 out for the moment (simply 'cause it's really a 70s car; stock and in equal hands, my 325 wagon can beat it around the track), the thing that M3s have few equals in is that it's about as multi-purpose with minimal compromise as you can get. Haul 600lbs of cement, some fenceposts, your kid in a child seat and a couple bags of groceries one day, drive 500 miles in quiet, civilized comfort at 25+MPG the next, then run low-2min lap times around Sears Point the next.
And, IMO, those capabilities feel more 'baked-in' than an AMG or Audi RS, where it'll do the first two just fine, but feels cobbled-together to accomplish the 3rd. As the answer to the "If you could only have one car" question, the M3 has few rivals.
As for running costs, a M3 compared to its non-M equivalent (not compared to a Civic) really isn't that bad. Aside from the motor, they're mostly plain 3-series. I know plenty of daily-drive E36M3s with 200k+ on the clock, and E46s in the 6 digits. My 325's been out of warranty for 3yrs/35k miles, and I've spent ~$1k on it in that time, including a (used) set of Pilot Sport 2s.
I think a 'better' question would be a 97 or 2002 + 25 or 15k cash since you aren't really getting anything else for the 2005 NSX besides the cosmetic upgrades of several years back or the drive train upgrade of many years back. The reason why 05's etc. are valued higher here is because of the exclusivity, rarity, and other attributes that only an NSX connoisseur might value.
If that was the question, I'd take the 02+cash and have a fairly new turbo nsx that will depreciate much slower then the E92.
If that was the question, I'd take the 02+cash and have a fairly new turbo nsx that will depreciate much slower then the E92.
I own an 02 M-3 (30k) and 04 NSX (23k) and they are two totally different beasts. Definately more attention in the NSX and my M-3 has all the competition series add ons. The M-3 is quick but can't hang with the NSX in the corners. Plus the M is about 900 lbs hevier and has only 43 more horses. Not much different from straight line acceleration IMO. Also the M has a lot more bells and whistles, nav, heated seats/mirrors, blue tooth, on star, and IMO the TCS is better.
All that said the M is a great daily driver but the NSX is sexier, sleeker, and way funner to drive IMO.
If I had to chose one over the other...NSX IT IS!
All that said the M is a great daily driver but the NSX is sexier, sleeker, and way funner to drive IMO.
If I had to chose one over the other...NSX IT IS!
NSX and E92 M3 are two different type of cars (MR pure sports car vs sports GT). Each does certain things better than the other. What makes sense for one buyer may not make sense for other. E92 M3's true competitors are IS-F, RS-4, RS-5, and C63.
With exception of a few posts, everything else in that thread seem very respectable and unbiased.
Driving experience aside, raw performance wise, the E92 M3 should have no trouble out lapping the US spec 05 NSX-T, assuming both are bone stock.
Nurburgring Lap Times - Nordschleife:
7:56 Honda NSX-R (NA2)
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1
8:03 Honda NSX-R (NA1)
8:04 Audi R8
8:05 BMW M3 E92
8:09 Honda NSX-R
8:22 BMW M3 E46
8:24 Audi S5
8:25 Lotus Exige S
8:25 Porsche Cayman S
8:26 BMW 335i E92 Coupe
8:38 Honda NSX
A true car enthusiast should appreciate and acknowledge all great cars and what they have to offer. Otherwise, the biased posts on prime would be on the same level as the very few biased posts on M3 forum.
I disagree with the comment about dated interior in NSX. Sitting inside the NSX makes you feel like you are in a piloting a jet. The driving position is just incredible. It is an exotic pure sports car, lacking a few small features are no big deal. It may lack hp, but not by much, even with as little as +50 hp the NSX can be a rocket.
Only thing dated about NSX's interior is the cassette deck, slow window compare to even Civics and not having Ipod/MP3 from factory. The material on NSX's dash is soft to the touch, the so called luxury cars now days including LS460 has hard plastic. The E92 M3 or other BMWs are no exception.
I have driven a lot of cars and owned E46 M3, everything else I have driven other than S2000 and NSX feels big, including R34 GTR.
I currently own a 08 E92 335i bone stock other than SSTT (JB3 on order=E55 level of straight line performance), it is just an amazing daily driver that offers way more than everything I need for a daily driver, feels like a big SUV to me when compared to my NSX. However, I wouldn't be too surprised it can actually out handle, out brake, and easily out accelerate a stock NA1 NSX.
The SUV feel has a lot to do with driving position, height, size, and weight of the car. Not to mention the fact that I had been spoiled with my NSX and S2000. If I remember correctly the stock NSX also had some nasty body rolls. Stock suspension for stock suspension maybe the they are not so bad. Considering they are two completely different type of cars. The more I push it around the turns the better it feels. Everything about the car is very refined for a sport coupe, the E92 M3 just takes every category up another notch.
The E92 M3 will likely remain exclusive compare to previous generation M3s due to countless factors.
With exception of a few posts, everything else in that thread seem very respectable and unbiased.
Driving experience aside, raw performance wise, the E92 M3 should have no trouble out lapping the US spec 05 NSX-T, assuming both are bone stock.
Nurburgring Lap Times - Nordschleife:
7:56 Honda NSX-R (NA2)
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1
8:03 Honda NSX-R (NA1)
8:04 Audi R8
8:05 BMW M3 E92
8:09 Honda NSX-R
8:22 BMW M3 E46
8:24 Audi S5
8:25 Lotus Exige S
8:25 Porsche Cayman S
8:26 BMW 335i E92 Coupe
8:38 Honda NSX
A true car enthusiast should appreciate and acknowledge all great cars and what they have to offer. Otherwise, the biased posts on prime would be on the same level as the very few biased posts on M3 forum.
I disagree with the comment about dated interior in NSX. Sitting inside the NSX makes you feel like you are in a piloting a jet. The driving position is just incredible. It is an exotic pure sports car, lacking a few small features are no big deal. It may lack hp, but not by much, even with as little as +50 hp the NSX can be a rocket.
Only thing dated about NSX's interior is the cassette deck, slow window compare to even Civics and not having Ipod/MP3 from factory. The material on NSX's dash is soft to the touch, the so called luxury cars now days including LS460 has hard plastic. The E92 M3 or other BMWs are no exception.
I have driven a lot of cars and owned E46 M3, everything else I have driven other than S2000 and NSX feels big, including R34 GTR.
I currently own a 08 E92 335i bone stock other than SSTT (JB3 on order=E55 level of straight line performance), it is just an amazing daily driver that offers way more than everything I need for a daily driver, feels like a big SUV to me when compared to my NSX. However, I wouldn't be too surprised it can actually out handle, out brake, and easily out accelerate a stock NA1 NSX.
The SUV feel has a lot to do with driving position, height, size, and weight of the car. Not to mention the fact that I had been spoiled with my NSX and S2000. If I remember correctly the stock NSX also had some nasty body rolls. Stock suspension for stock suspension maybe the they are not so bad. Considering they are two completely different type of cars. The more I push it around the turns the better it feels. Everything about the car is very refined for a sport coupe, the E92 M3 just takes every category up another notch.
The E92 M3 will likely remain exclusive compare to previous generation M3s due to countless factors.
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What is the point of this comparison? One is a souped up coup sedan, the other is an exotic 2 seat mid engine sports car. You are comparing loafers and sneakers. They both can be worn around the house, but you can't really play tennis well in loafers.
Not to take anything away from the M3 but it isn't the same tool as the NSX and the NSX can't haul or perform the duties that an M3 can. My choice would be to own both, if you can only own one and need a back seat and trunk space the M3 is a great choice. If you want a sports car, the NSX is a better choice; the M3 comes close but is definitely not the better sports car choice, SINCE IT IS NOT A SPORTS CAR!
my .02,
Tyus
Not to take anything away from the M3 but it isn't the same tool as the NSX and the NSX can't haul or perform the duties that an M3 can. My choice would be to own both, if you can only own one and need a back seat and trunk space the M3 is a great choice. If you want a sports car, the NSX is a better choice; the M3 comes close but is definitely not the better sports car choice, SINCE IT IS NOT A SPORTS CAR!
my .02,
Tyus
I recently purchased an E93 335 and it is truly a work-of-art. The attention-to-detail, features and performance are great and it is extremely comfortable.
I also have an '04 NSX with CTSC and this is a whole different experience: drop down into the seat, buckle up and you are in a vehicle designed to give you the racing experience. Engine noise, cornering and cockpit are all key differentiators that dramatically favour the NSX.
The BMW convertible is fantastic. Much more comfortable (to get in/out of(!) and to drive), features are all up-to-date (Comfort Access, bluetooth, NAV, etc.) and smooth to drive.
Which car to drive? Isn't it great to be able to ask the question?
I will add this: a beautiful woman in the passenger seat of the BMW is worth buying this car alone!
Tony
2004 Berlina Black/Black CTSC
2008 E93 335i Jet Black/Saddle Brown
I also have an '04 NSX with CTSC and this is a whole different experience: drop down into the seat, buckle up and you are in a vehicle designed to give you the racing experience. Engine noise, cornering and cockpit are all key differentiators that dramatically favour the NSX.
The BMW convertible is fantastic. Much more comfortable (to get in/out of(!) and to drive), features are all up-to-date (Comfort Access, bluetooth, NAV, etc.) and smooth to drive.
Which car to drive? Isn't it great to be able to ask the question?
I will add this: a beautiful woman in the passenger seat of the BMW is worth buying this car alone!
Tony
2004 Berlina Black/Black CTSC
2008 E93 335i Jet Black/Saddle Brown
This was done with slick tires and incomplete lap time.
Remember, you are comparing a new M3 not an older M3.
A stock 335i is pretty fast fellas but a Dinan 3 has 421 lb*ft of torque in it and 390hp. I have driven stock NSX's and I would not trade it for what I have right now. My current ride is faster than an E92 M3 by a hair. The NSX is a great car but having all that torque is tons of fun so it is a completely different car. If any of you are in Vegas feel free to PM and you can take my car for a spin. Make a judgement after that.
As far as the interior goes it still needs an update. Sure, it has everything you need but does it have anything you want? The interior of the car is rather bland to me because it hasn't changed much since 1991.
I have driven the new M3 as well and it is a great car. I have a 3 year old and 10 month old so coupe is a better situation for me. I almost bought a 97 NSX back in Feb or March. I don't regret getting the car I currently have either. Those that have an NSX have to REALLY, REALLY LOVE the car. It is an out of production car with no warranty and is more classic exotic than anything. I do like it a lot but the car just isn't fast enough stock for me.
The comparison of Loafers to sneakers is not valid either. A stock E92 M3 will destory a stock NSX in a straight line, possibly on a track as well. Most NSX owners don't want to admit it but their car is not that fast in a straight line as one might think. You can downplay the M3 as a coupe/sedan all you want but it is faster than a stock NSX any day of the week. You might be surprised that the new M3 engine revs to 8000 rpms as well so they have something in common there. People shouldn't buy an NSX for quickness, that is a given I think. Its highlights are handling, lightweight, engineering and limited production.
A stock 335i is pretty fast fellas but a Dinan 3 has 421 lb*ft of torque in it and 390hp. I have driven stock NSX's and I would not trade it for what I have right now. My current ride is faster than an E92 M3 by a hair. The NSX is a great car but having all that torque is tons of fun so it is a completely different car. If any of you are in Vegas feel free to PM and you can take my car for a spin. Make a judgement after that.
As far as the interior goes it still needs an update. Sure, it has everything you need but does it have anything you want? The interior of the car is rather bland to me because it hasn't changed much since 1991.
I have driven the new M3 as well and it is a great car. I have a 3 year old and 10 month old so coupe is a better situation for me. I almost bought a 97 NSX back in Feb or March. I don't regret getting the car I currently have either. Those that have an NSX have to REALLY, REALLY LOVE the car. It is an out of production car with no warranty and is more classic exotic than anything. I do like it a lot but the car just isn't fast enough stock for me.
The comparison of Loafers to sneakers is not valid either. A stock E92 M3 will destory a stock NSX in a straight line, possibly on a track as well. Most NSX owners don't want to admit it but their car is not that fast in a straight line as one might think. You can downplay the M3 as a coupe/sedan all you want but it is faster than a stock NSX any day of the week. You might be surprised that the new M3 engine revs to 8000 rpms as well so they have something in common there. People shouldn't buy an NSX for quickness, that is a given I think. Its highlights are handling, lightweight, engineering and limited production.
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sounds like we all need 4.0L V8 engine in our NSX.:biggrin:
From previous experience I think the M handling is pretty close to the NSX, the NSX definitely has a sharper feel to it.
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