yes!
now if we can only get a glimpse of the new X. anyone have an info?
now if we can only get a glimpse of the new X. anyone have an info?
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For all you naysayers... the new NSX has been confirmed by Honda CEO Mr. Fukui
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Nimbus said:
I disagree with this 100%. The next car needs A LOT of horsepower. That has been the single BIGGEST complaint against the NSX since day one. It needs to be addressed. Every other car company seems to be able to make more HP every few years...
the current generation is already fast even when the stats don't seem so.
What does this mean? The current car is not fast.. not by todays standards. Maybe it is close 0-60, but 0-100 is a different story. While the 2003 NSX takes 12 seconds to get to 100 MPH, nearly all supercards are doing it under 10 these days.
The next car needs to do 0-100 in under 10 and the quarter near 115-120 MPH to keep up with todays crowd..
NetViper said:
NetViper, about your comments, I 100% disagree ...not !!!
It is so obvious.
This is the equation Honda seemed to forgot:
Big HP = Big Money in their pockets.
This is what every sportscar enthousiast are waiting for...
The new NSX
This post has been interesting to read. If you recall back a few months ago I had the chance to meet will about 10 Honda R&D people (including the creator of the NSX) Mr. Uehara. While I will not suggest that they told me anything that others have not also heard I do have some thoughts on the matter. I still believe that Honda feels that the NSX is their flagship and as such will not try and compete with the likes of the 350Z or Corvette Z06. They would be very happy if they could sell about 9000 to 12000 cars per year (Porsche Country). They realistically have their sights at slightly lower numbers but at least that is the ball park and they would consider the car a great success. They do consider their car to be an exotic. While the term is sometimes hard to define, I believe that this is very important to them. Frankly, my purchasing the 2001 I have was do in part to its exotic allure. I did not want a car that was being produced in the twenty to thirty thousand numbers.
When I met with these folks they suggested that the meeting was about life style. Well, as an old marketing person, I see that as a part of the design process as well as a means of representing the car. When they asked me about my preferences concerning other exotics there were no 350z, or Porsche boxers, or anything that was not an authentic exotic.
As a consultant focusing on lean manufacturing I was interested in their process of design and execution. They set the standard for concurrent engineering and turning a car design in reality within a three year time frame. They indicated that the complexity of the NSX requires more time. I personally think we are not that far off from the next NSX. I think it will remain a Six rather than a eight because that would fundamentally change the character of the car. Also Honda is a company that is sensitive to the environment and tends to follow their values rather than give in to the car magazines quest. They are like surgeons and approach problem solving from that point of view. They want to create beauty in their exotic. I think most of you are right on when you say about 350 hp.
This post has been interesting to read. If you recall back a few months ago I had the chance to meet will about 10 Honda R&D people (including the creator of the NSX) Mr. Uehara. While I will not suggest that they told me anything that others have not also heard I do have some thoughts on the matter. I still believe that Honda feels that the NSX is their flagship and as such will not try and compete with the likes of the 350Z or Corvette Z06. They would be very happy if they could sell about 9000 to 12000 cars per year (Porsche Country). They realistically have their sights at slightly lower numbers but at least that is the ball park and they would consider the car a great success. They do consider their car to be an exotic. While the term is sometimes hard to define, I believe that this is very important to them. Frankly, my purchasing the 2001 I have was do in part to its exotic allure. I did not want a car that was being produced in the twenty to thirty thousand numbers.
When I met with these folks they suggested that the meeting was about life style. Well, as an old marketing person, I see that as a part of the design process as well as a means of representing the car. When they asked me about my preferences concerning other exotics there were no 350z, or Porsche boxers, or anything that was not an authentic exotic.
As a consultant focusing on lean manufacturing I was interested in their process of design and execution. They set the standard for concurrent engineering and turning a car design in reality within a three year time frame. They indicated that the complexity of the NSX requires more time. I personally think we are not that far off from the next NSX. I think it will remain a Six rather than a eight because that would fundamentally change the character of the car. Also Honda is a company that is sensitive to the environment and tends to follow their values rather than give in to the car magazines quest. They are like surgeons and approach problem solving from that point of view. They want to create beauty in their exotic. I think most of you are right on when you say about 350 hp.
let's not forget about cost as well. big hp may equal big $$$.
i'm sure we all want the NSX to compete with the big boys but i don't think we're ready to see a price of $150K+ for an NSX.
$$$ is still an issue when it comes to design and sales for a company such as Honda. For Toyota, it may be a different story....they're probably ready to go for a V-10.
i'm sure we all want the NSX to compete with the big boys but i don't think we're ready to see a price of $150K+ for an NSX.
$$$ is still an issue when it comes to design and sales for a company such as Honda. For Toyota, it may be a different story....they're probably ready to go for a V-10.
honda's philosophy
just curious... can anyone give me a source or list honda's "philosophy". I keep hearing that a lot and was wondering what they were.
environmentally conscious
light engine - high revs
etc...
just curious... can anyone give me a source or list honda's "philosophy". I keep hearing that a lot and was wondering what they were.
environmentally conscious
light engine - high revs
etc...
You asked for it -- some of their values
Their Strategy Vision:
It is our mission to improve the lives of customers and communities where we all live, work and play. We will continue to develop and build products in local markets around the world to create value for all of our customers. Our established directions for the 21st century provide a balance of fun for the customer and responsibility for society and the environment. This is demonstrated through advanced technologies such as a humanoid robot and gas-turbine airplane engine. A more familiar example, the S2000 sports car, is a Low-Emission Vehicle that will safely transport you down the highway with 240 horses of driving excitement.
Technology and the Environment
Green grass. Blue skies. Clean water. That's why.
It's not hard to figure out why for over two decades Honda has led the way in developing environmentally friendly technology. We want a cleaner and better tomorrow, just like you.
We will continue to look to our engineers to develop alternative-fuel vehicles like the natural-gas Civic GX and the hybrid gasoline-electric Insight. We produce industry-leading environmental vehicles like the Super-Ultra-Low-Emission Accords and the Ultra-Low-Emission Civics and Accords, as well as many other low-emission products
The Environment
Honda has been at the forefront of advancing new technologies for the past three decades. We have provided leadership in the industry by having our products ahead of regulatory requirements that benefit our customers and society as a whole. Our strategy is to invest in key "foundation" technologies that are key to meeting future transportation needs.
Honda has shown the same dedication in our efforts to protect the environment as well. We have been able to meet our commitment to clean air by building products that pollute less, use less gas and still are enjoyable to the people that use them. It's the key to protecting the environment and our future. It is this balance of customer safety, fun and responsibility to society and the environment that will continue for years to come.
Their Strategy Vision:
It is our mission to improve the lives of customers and communities where we all live, work and play. We will continue to develop and build products in local markets around the world to create value for all of our customers. Our established directions for the 21st century provide a balance of fun for the customer and responsibility for society and the environment. This is demonstrated through advanced technologies such as a humanoid robot and gas-turbine airplane engine. A more familiar example, the S2000 sports car, is a Low-Emission Vehicle that will safely transport you down the highway with 240 horses of driving excitement.
Technology and the Environment
Green grass. Blue skies. Clean water. That's why.
It's not hard to figure out why for over two decades Honda has led the way in developing environmentally friendly technology. We want a cleaner and better tomorrow, just like you.
We will continue to look to our engineers to develop alternative-fuel vehicles like the natural-gas Civic GX and the hybrid gasoline-electric Insight. We produce industry-leading environmental vehicles like the Super-Ultra-Low-Emission Accords and the Ultra-Low-Emission Civics and Accords, as well as many other low-emission products
The Environment
Honda has been at the forefront of advancing new technologies for the past three decades. We have provided leadership in the industry by having our products ahead of regulatory requirements that benefit our customers and society as a whole. Our strategy is to invest in key "foundation" technologies that are key to meeting future transportation needs.
Honda has shown the same dedication in our efforts to protect the environment as well. We have been able to meet our commitment to clean air by building products that pollute less, use less gas and still are enjoyable to the people that use them. It's the key to protecting the environment and our future. It is this balance of customer safety, fun and responsibility to society and the environment that will continue for years to come.
NetViper said:
Don't get me wrong, more horsepower is indeed needed but the next gen NSX would not turn me away dissapointed if it didn't have "A LOT" of HP. To me, balance and handling is everything, not ultimate horsepower. Sure the BMW M5 has 400hp and it's probably faster than the current NSX on the top end but the current NSX will run circles around the M5 at the track. Another fine example is when Best Motoring pitted the new NSX-R (with only 290hp) against the world supercars (almost all with 400+hp). The lowly hp NSX-R contended neck to neck with the 550+hp Lambo Mercielago and handlily beat out the 996 Carrrera 4S and BMW Z8 by a wide margin. Also in another thread on Prime recently, the NSX-R (again with only 290hp) ran only one second slower than the 405hp Z06 at the 13 mile Nurburgring. These examples just to show with a bit of tweaking the suspension and balance even 290hp can hang with the much more powerful cars. Just imagine what the next gen NSX can do with "only" 350hp.
If you're into drag racing, 1/4 mile times, pure HP figures, you're probably looking at the wrong car in the first place. The NSX has always been a precision tool, not a sledge hammer.
Just my opinion...
Re: The new NSX
How would having a V8 fundamentally change the character of the car?? If anything, it would give it more torque, a better sound and higher HP. I personally see NO downside to a V8. Apparently Lotus and Ferrari don't either.
drmanny3 said:
How would having a V8 fundamentally change the character of the car?? If anything, it would give it more torque, a better sound and higher HP. I personally see NO downside to a V8. Apparently Lotus and Ferrari don't either.
Nimbus said:
That is true, however, if you watch the video, when the long straight came around, the NSX got TOASTED by the lambo. Just think how the NSX would have done if it had 400HP and could hold its on the straights...
Why not just purchase a Z06 and have the best of all worlds - handling, braking, performance and price. It consistently beats the NSX in all of the former cateogries by a WIDE margin. Albeit it does fall short in some of the subjective categories - snob appeal, rarity, exotic, etc. Although there are many that believe that exotic and Honda are mutually exclusive terms.
wildrice said:
Some people don't like having big hoods blocking their view of the road....
Six versus eight
While I am not a car engineer, my sense from talking with the Honda engineers suggested that a change to a v8 would in itself would have little impact unless the engine were larger. In fact going to a v8 from a 6 with the same total cubic inches would actually lose efficiency (more mass to move around and overcome). My guess is that they want to keep the overall size of the car, keep the trunk space the same and really evolve the car. Look at how successful the Porsche 911 has been. While it has changed in many ways it is also very similar to the early car. The engine has been improved significantly. In fact while not a Porsche lover per say the six is part of its appeal. If you look at what Honda has done since the first NSX everything has been evolutionary. Even in Japan I understand that is the case. I just have a hard time imagining that they will change their paradigm to a v8 wildly different car. The real question is what will it take for me to sell my 2001 and buy another NSX.
In the end each of us has an expectation of what it will take to part with $90k. It might be hp for one person, lightweight for another, 0 to 60 to 0, or 0 to 100 to 0 or limited build or all leather interior, or????
While I am not a car engineer, my sense from talking with the Honda engineers suggested that a change to a v8 would in itself would have little impact unless the engine were larger. In fact going to a v8 from a 6 with the same total cubic inches would actually lose efficiency (more mass to move around and overcome). My guess is that they want to keep the overall size of the car, keep the trunk space the same and really evolve the car. Look at how successful the Porsche 911 has been. While it has changed in many ways it is also very similar to the early car. The engine has been improved significantly. In fact while not a Porsche lover per say the six is part of its appeal. If you look at what Honda has done since the first NSX everything has been evolutionary. Even in Japan I understand that is the case. I just have a hard time imagining that they will change their paradigm to a v8 wildly different car. The real question is what will it take for me to sell my 2001 and buy another NSX.
In the end each of us has an expectation of what it will take to part with $90k. It might be hp for one person, lightweight for another, 0 to 60 to 0, or 0 to 100 to 0 or limited build or all leather interior, or????
Nimbus said:
sorry to be picky, but there was no Z8 in that race. i watched it many many many times.
1st F50
2nd GT2
3rd Murcielago ("bat" in spanish)
4th NSX-R
5th Gembella Porsche
6th C4S
but watching it going almost side by side with the lambo gives me a good feeling about the performance of the NSX-R. it's half the hp, more than half the cost and almost the same bang on the track.
I hope they aim to beat Ferrari again.
And if they build it right it will last another 14 years, or about 7-8 and still be tops. Just don't do what American car companies do, throw something out and make it better every few years. If I owned a Vette or Mustange and every other year it changed I'ld be really pissed!! Again, do it right the first time and leave it alone!!! 14 years may be a little long to not change it much, but aim for 7 or 8.
And if they build it right it will last another 14 years, or about 7-8 and still be tops. Just don't do what American car companies do, throw something out and make it better every few years. If I owned a Vette or Mustange and every other year it changed I'ld be really pissed!! Again, do it right the first time and leave it alone!!! 14 years may be a little long to not change it much, but aim for 7 or 8.
Blue Knight said:
You're right. That video was from a while ago, I was just recalling from memory.
also, some of you guys are talking about price and exclusivity. When the NSX came out it was a ferrari at half the price AND reliable, but it was selling 3-4k a year!!!. I don't care what the price is. as long as it makes it hard for most to buy, including myself. In the past 3 years I've only seen 5 NSX's in Indy, and love it!! I hate going on a 15 minute ride and seeing Corvette's all the time, what's so special about one if eveyone eighter has one or could easily get one? You can lease them for around $500/month, anyone could somehow come up with that money!!
100K+ would take me a few years to save up, but to know I won't seen an NSX coming down the other side of the road everyday, and that would make it worht it! I'm going to start saving today, don't disipoint me Honda!!
100K+ would take me a few years to save up, but to know I won't seen an NSX coming down the other side of the road everyday, and that would make it worht it! I'm going to start saving today, don't disipoint me Honda!!
If the new NSX comes with a 4.0 V-8 instead of a three and a half liter V-6 it will be heavier (~3100 lbs AT LEAST) A high output (~110 HP per liter) V-6 would give us the HP we "need" yet keep things light (under<3000 lbs) which frankly I would prefer and is what refined exotics of this caliber are all about. Besides, a 2900 lb NSX with say a 370HP 3.5 V-6 should be a 115-117 MPH 1/4 mile trap all day long....but with SUPER handling.
To wear a powerful V-8 and yet still keep it thoroughly light (~3000lbs)will drive the price VERY high ($120+K). And though the straight-line may be a bit better it could drive the NSX out of marketability again* You must look at that side of the equation as well.
--- Kevin D.
To wear a powerful V-8 and yet still keep it thoroughly light (~3000lbs)will drive the price VERY high ($120+K). And though the straight-line may be a bit better it could drive the NSX out of marketability again* You must look at that side of the equation as well.
--- Kevin D.
Six versus an 8
I agree with your post--that maintaining the six with improved performance makes the best sense. If I wanted a v8 I would get a Z06 or a viper V10. Neither of those cars feel like the NSX from a build quality or from a comfort level. Honda like other manufacturers tries to figure out what people want versus what people will pay for. I would like the corvette more if it had a overhead cam arrangement and better build quality (no warped bumpers where they connect to the body), also better materials in the interior, etcetera. However if corvette met my needs they would lose about half of their customer base due to the high cost of building that car. They have attempted to stay true to the original car and its mission. Great fun, great acceleration, great torque and a reasonable price.
I agree with your post--that maintaining the six with improved performance makes the best sense. If I wanted a v8 I would get a Z06 or a viper V10. Neither of those cars feel like the NSX from a build quality or from a comfort level. Honda like other manufacturers tries to figure out what people want versus what people will pay for. I would like the corvette more if it had a overhead cam arrangement and better build quality (no warped bumpers where they connect to the body), also better materials in the interior, etcetera. However if corvette met my needs they would lose about half of their customer base due to the high cost of building that car. They have attempted to stay true to the original car and its mission. Great fun, great acceleration, great torque and a reasonable price.
All I can say is I hope the Honda CEO Mr. Fukui dosen't Fukui
AKUDOU said:All I can say is I hope the Honda CEO Mr. Fukui dosen't Fukui
It was only a matter of time until someone weaved that into their post : )
Just some humor to break up the boredom.Sig said:
A super car that can be as docile as an Accord. This is what one magazine said about the NSX.
One of my employees has an F355, he tried to use it as a daily driver but ended up spending more time at the gas pump than on the road.
With that said, if the NSX mimic's ferrari's overall feel and performance, then I would just get a Ferrari.
I got the NSX because of the V6, because of good gas mileage, because of good reliability, handling, and performance. The NSX has a good compromise of everything. I'm not saying that the NSX shouldn't get a V8. But it should remain the most well balanced, economical, and practical supercar produced.
One of my employees has an F355, he tried to use it as a daily driver but ended up spending more time at the gas pump than on the road.
With that said, if the NSX mimic's ferrari's overall feel and performance, then I would just get a Ferrari.
I got the NSX because of the V6, because of good gas mileage, because of good reliability, handling, and performance. The NSX has a good compromise of everything. I'm not saying that the NSX shouldn't get a V8. But it should remain the most well balanced, economical, and practical supercar produced.
wildrice said:
The Z06 doesn't beat the NSX by a "WIDE" margin. It beats the NSX solidly, but considering it is the best car Chevrolet has ever made, and it was released in 2002, shouldn't it?????
As a former Corvette owner, I can tell you that there are big compromises that come with that huge bang for the buck. There's big economy of scale behind the Vette which means that they must sell 10's of thousands of them to justify it. That translates to lots of mass-production oriented sacrifices.
"Subjective categories" are *everything* in the world of top dollar (sub insane) autos. As someone who is fortunate enough to be able to shop in that price range, I can tell you that these intangibles are what you shop for. Many choose to call this "snob appeal", but that's generally nonsense. The high end of the automotive spectrum are not just expensive for the hell of it, but rather they are manufactured with fewer compromises. As a result, they are more expensive and, since they are more expensive, they are more exclusive and ultimately more desireable.
Personally, I don't want to see Honda throw in the towel and accept massive compromises in order to compete with the likes of the Corvette. That doesn't cut it for a flagship vehicle and I'd be shocked if they do it. I'd much rather see them go after the Ford GT even if they have to up the NSX to $100k. Maybe they won't sell tons of them, but they certainly haven't been surviving on NSX sales thus far anyhow. A flagship car like the NSX pays for itself in ways other than direct sales.
To think the Z06 is some unbeatable adversary is just silly. For all the Z06's prowess, the SRT 10 hands it it's ass and is far, far, far more exotic for less than twice the price. I'd take a Viper over any Corvette any day of the week. Why? Because I owned the Corvette and the compromises get to you if they're not compromises that you *need* to make. Does that mean the Corvette is bad? NO! It is one of the best cars I've ever owned, but the super-value price isn't the result of some magic that Chevy has a monopoly on and it isn't charity by GM nor greed mongering by Honda, Dodge and Porsche. GM cuts corners to make that price happen. I know people want to desperately believe that there is no difference at all between something like a Z06, WRX STi or Evolution 8 and a Porsche 911GT3, Ferrari 360, Viper or NSX other than "snob appeal" and things that "don't matter unless you're a poser", but it's really not true.
Honda needs to aim higher than the Z06 and just make sure they're enough ahead in performance that they can shake the comparison. Let the Z06 remain the "wow! nearly as much car at half the price!" selection. That is Chevy's target, after all.
