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GM to Ax 30,000 Jobs, Close 12 Facilities

Hmmm....

Toyota expands lineup in push for No. 1
Shooting for top: GM has been the global leader for 73 years, but the Japanese automaker has big plans
The Wall Street Journal


Toyota Motor Corp. is making a big bet that it can ride a host of new models past struggling General Motors Corp. next year to become the world's biggest maker of cars.
Late next month, when the Japanese automaker unveils its 2006 targets, it could set the ambitious goal of producing as many as 9.2 million cars, say people familiar with the plan. That would be an 11 percent leap from the 8.28 million cars Toyota expects to make in its current fiscal year, which ends in March.
GM - which has been the world's No. 1 automaker for more than 70 years - has not outlined its production plans for 2006 and on Monday announced a major restructuring that will involve plant closings as it moves to produce fewer automobiles. It has projected it will build 9.1 million cars this year. GM sold 8.99 million vehicles in 2004, a 14 percent share of the world-wide auto market. Ford Motor Co., the world's No. 3 automaker, sold 6.98 million vehicles world-wide.
With the final release date for their forecast still a month away, Toyota officials warn the company has yet to decide on a final production target. Its plans include a redesigned version of the Camry, America's best-selling car; a spruced-up version of its RAV4 SUV; a new mid-size sport utility vehicle called the FJ Cruiser; and a small car, the Yaris, aimed at energy-conscious drivers. Toyota also will launch more models under its Lexus premium nameplate.
Still, the prospect of a photo finish in the race for No. 1 automaker underscores the profound shift of power occurring in a business increasingly marked by global competition. With the Big Three U.S. automakers struggling under the burden of heavy labor and health-care costs, the industry is migrating away from the unionized U.S. operations that served as a model for decades and toward lower-cost, mostly nonunion factories - many in North America - run by Asian and European manufacturers.
Last week, Ford's new head of North America, Mark Fields, warned staffers that the company plans to cut 4,000 salaried jobs in North America next year, or 10 percent of the total.
GM has long made being No. 1 central to its culture and its business strategy, counting on its massive size to help it recoup the billions spent on development and to help it open new markets. In January, GM Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner dismissed speculation that GM could fall behind Toyota, saying, ''We've been ahead 73 years in a row, and I think the betting odds are we'll be ahead for the next 73 years.''
But since then, his plans for GM have been derailed by falling sales of high-profit SUVs in the U.S. market and rising costs for U.S. health care. While GM is growing in some markets, notably China and Latin America, and has stabilized its European sales, its gains have been more than offset this year by declines in North America.


And this was pretty interesting too.

GENERAL MOTORS: Modern manufacturing must shed staggering costs
Building our base




What's good for General Motors, they used to say, is good for the country.
Somehow, though, the closure of nine GM production plants and the elimination of 30,000 high-paying jobs would hardly be on anyone's Christmas list for the U.S. economy.
There are some things that would be good for the country that would be good for GM or, if it's already too late, for the next generation of American manufacturing.
They would be improvements in intellectual infrastructure and social safety nets that would help American individuals and corporations innovate, invest and build without being weighed down by the kind of health care, pension and training costs that don't bother the Toyotas and BMWs of the world.
A pure law-of-the-jungle approach would hold that, if GM can't make cars that enough people want to buy, at production costs it can afford to pay, then it ought to be allowed to go the way of companies that made buggy whips and whalebone corsets.
And we'd agree, if it weren't for the number of employees, suppliers, pension investments and whole communities that would be sucked down with it. Such downward pressure on wages and benefits can only reverberate throughout the economy, lowering the standard of living across the board.
Part of the reason our standard of living has been so high, of course, is that big American corporations have paid the freight, not just for their current workers but for legions of aging retirees. Such costs add $1,500 or more to the cost of a GM car, compared to $300 on a Toyota sticker.
The growing realization that that cannot go on has led, for example, to corporate support for such things as prescription drug benefits for Medicare recipients, a shift in responsibility that will save GM millions.
The Japanese government didn't invent the hybrid technology that powers the hugely popular Toyota Prius. The German government didn't craft the lines of the BMW. And the American government won't invent a GM or Ford car that anyone wants to buy.
But those nations did provide health care and pension undercarriages, along with world class educational systems, that helped their automakers leave our automakers in the dust.
If the United States wants to maintain a healthy manufacturing base, for all the economic and security reasons that make it necessary, we are going to have to come up with a uniquely American way of maintaining an industrial foundation
 
A good friend of mine went to work in a union job at a bus shop for county transport, he was use to working on commision so he worked fast...the bus shop was 2 bays deep so the bus in front was trapped in by the bus behind when one was parked there...he was given the job of replacing all the light bulbs inside and out on the a coach (his coach was the one trapped in the front) he finished the job in 3.5 hrs the shop steward told him it was an "all day job" so after he was finished he was told to sit on the bus and read a book till the other coach was removed.....the next day he did front and rear brakes on a coach in 4 hrs...once agian he was told it was an "all day job" he sat on the coach for the rest of the day ...the union stewerd came on the coach and told him he needed to "get with the program"...he quit 2 days later as he could not stand around all day and feel good about his performance.


If you want to make the case that Unions are important to insure that workers are paid well and get good benifits,,than why is it that the union job I applyed for (and was offerd) had crappy pay and benifits as compaired to all the non Union jobs I have had? that were exactly the same work in the same area?... :confused:
 
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TC said:
As for Walmart, yes, they don't pay very well. But union-based Kmart went chapter 11, shut down hundreds of stores, laid-off thousands of employees, screwed over hundreds of vendors and lost billions of shareholder investment. So which is worse?

QUOTE]

Kmart is not, and has never been unionized. K-marts demise was due to their inability to change and evolve like Wal-Mart/Target (and their reluctance to embrace technology). Wal-Mart's pay/benefits structure is better than average in the retail industry and at Wal-Mart there is more opportunity for advancement than at any company in this country. Wal-Mart promoted 9,000 hourly associates to the ranks of salaried mgmt last year, another 12,000 this year.

Unions had their place 50 years ago, but they enacted so much legislation to protect workplace rights, that they made themselves unnecessary.

Will
 
91 X said:
Everyone seems to want to blame the unions while they're shopping at Wal-Mart.....It's companies like non-union Wal-Mart that are the real problem...
If you want the US to become a third world economy, keep siding with companies like WM and keep buying everything made in China...

Seems really popular to pick on Wal-Mart because they're so big. Wal-Mart has confessed to buying $18 billion in Chinese made merchandise last year on total sales of $285 billion. That works out to 6.3%. Wal-Mart also admits to US sourced purchases of more than $150 billion, but no one ever wants to hear that figure, its too easy and fun to pick on Wal-Mart because they're so big.

Take a walk through Target, Circuit City, Best Buy, Bed Bath and Beyond sometime, and let me know how much merchandise you find in those stores that in made in the USA. Wal-Mart is simply participating in the global economy like everyone else. Does Wal-Mart buy more Chinese merchandise than anyone else? In straight dollars, yes. As a percentage of total sales? Not very likely. If Wal-Mart bought more merchandise made in the USA at a higher cost, customers would simply migrate to stores with lower priced "foreign" product.

Will
 
Take all of the merchandise that Wal-Mart sells, redirect the manufacturing of those products to company's who pay UAW wages and then see how long Wal -Mart survives. I bet not many UAW workers would shop at Wal-Mart because the stuff they sell would be damn expensive. The unions have artificially inflated the value of tradesmen. Now that the majority of manufacturing trades no longer exist, about the only way a young person can make a decent living is to have a college degree or work for a unionized shop.
 
91 X said:
My point was that blaming unions is not the answer...Sure there are some bad things about unions, but for the most part they have done some great things for the working class...GM management/execs are to blame for their woes, not the dude cooking hot dogs on the production line who was allowed to by management..It starts at the top. Fix the health care system, the BIG $$$ pay of top executives and the corruption of those execs and build better cars and you might not have to lay off 30,000 people....29,000 of them were probably hard working honest people....

The reverse is also true - if the UAW put half as much energy into productivity & quality improvement as it does into forcing GM into guaranteeing zero layoffs, then it might not need job protection in the first place. Clearly, not allowing the dude above to hang up his own toilet paper holder - thinking that he was stealing someone's job - is job protection run amok. Requiring GM to pay everyone the exact same wage guarantees a mediocre workforce. Imagine if you wanted to hire people for your company and you had zero flexibility in wages – you had to pay everyone the same.

The US seems to be a great place to build cars - Mercedes, BMW, Japan Inc., and Hyundai all have built and/or expanded plants in the US in the past few years. Without the straightjacket of collective bargaining they can hire the best workers by paying them a bit more. They can also fire the ones that don't perform - as well as those who abuse their work privileges or set a bad example.

Agreed that GM management doesn't seem to be the brightest bunch of people based on many of their decisions. But its UAW workers that screw the cars together and issues with quality and attention to detail lay with them, not management.

Agreed that 29,000 (if not 29,900) of the 30,000 workers to be laid-off are solid, hard-working, decent people. Clearly, if GM built better product they wouldn't be in this situation. Similarly, had not UAW’s last strike GM cost GM $2.2 billion (enough to modernize 10 plants and hire 10,000 workers) they might be building better cars.
 
When you have to pay somebody $35/hour to put a piece of trim on a door, then the union does hurt the companies. I worked for a union company and know that the mentality of some (not all) union workers is that I a going to do what I want because the management can't touch me.




Truth be told. Im an electrician and i make 31.06 and hour. Line workers with 35 years of senority make about 25. Cost of living bumps it to a buck. I went for an anual check-up to the doctors office last month and my co-pay was &75, it used to be $10 bucks. The ONLY real power any union had was the ablilty to strike and shut down a plant. Most people cannot afford to strike or perform badly at work to lose a job. Everything is entirely to damn expensive to be trying to buck up and stall out the big 3. The UAW basically has NO bargaining power and hasn't for years. Kinda more like hey "grease me up before you stick it in :smile: " Most unions employees make only a living just like non-union employees. Trust me, as fast as these line speeds are in these plant the people work they A$$es off for 6 days a week and normal 9.5 hours. Its no cake walk physically.

On another topic i was in nursing school before i became an electrician. I used to see nurse's in the ER have about 3 or 4 patients to tend to. Now its more like 6 or 7, and the administration is trying to croos train janitors to take your BP, pulse and other important things(no need for lpn's or aids) vitals instead of your nurse. Plus they work in a very physically demanding and stressful environment. Some of the hospitals in st.louis have wanting some sort of union representation for years.
 
WillErickson said:
Kmart is not, and has never been unionized...

Are you certain (for example, you worked at or managed a Kmart store)? I was sure that some or all Kmart employees were members of UNITE (Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees). Perhaps I'm mistaken.
 
ZR-1 NSX said:
Take all of the merchandise that Wal-Mart sells, redirect the manufacturing of those products to company's who pay UAW wages and then see how long Wal -Mart survives. I bet not many UAW workers would shop at Wal-Mart because the stuff they sell would be damn expensive.

When gas was $4 a gallon UAW workers still bought it. These Dodge ram pickup trucks i see moving down the line aren't cheap, but the parking lot is FULL of them(most repeat buyers). Hell just a few months ago everybody got employee pricing, did the UAW bitch or strike? Most UAW and union members buy american made cars. They don't push it as much because of out sourcing. Its hard to tell just what is american made. Wall mart can buy stuff cheaper than because the buy in volume. I hear people complaining about the new self checkout line at places like HD and some grocery stores. I like the CONVENIENCE of checking out faster but it cuts jobs. But they say" having less cashiers helps us save you, the customer more. :rolleyes: " Companies are not in business to help you save money. if i provide a service(selling you car or saving your life) i expect to get paid. same philosphy for all companies. You think scienceofspeed sold me a widebody kit to make my shit look hot??????? You think sos, the wb and rp-motorsports are us wheels because they believe in their hearts that they will enrich our lives???? Nobody buys shares of a company that wants to save the consumer anything. Whatever cuts and savings GM makes will not drop the price of a ZO6 Hell i couldn't even green sheet a viper!
 
I want to say that I've enjoyed this debate - particularly because I want GM do well (and certainly do not want to see them go under or file bankruptcy). Perhaps this is the wake-up call that everyone at GM needs - a brush with death. Hey, Nissan was left for dead just a few years ago and now they are doing great. For the record, while I think the UAW has hurt GM, I support the workers in the best way possible - I buy GM product. My current daily driver is an 04 Cadillac SRX. With 2 small kids I needed something practical but definitely did not want a mini van. With a 320 HP V8 (which gets better mileage than my wife's 05 RL), seating for 7, 4-wheel drive and room for lots of stuff, and an excellent suspension, it is a very good car. Most car mags also agree that the SRX is an excellent driver's car with great utility.
 
TC said:
The reverse is also true - if the UAW put half as much energy into productivity & quality improvement as it does into forcing GM into guaranteeing zero layoffs, then it might not need job protection in the first place. Clearly, not allowing the dude above to hang up his own toilet paper holder - thinking that he was stealing someone's job - is job protection run amok. Requiring GM to pay everyone the exact same wage guarantees a mediocre workforce. Imagine if you wanted to hire people for your company and you had zero flexibility in wages – you had to pay everyone the same.

The US seems to be a great place to build cars - Mercedes, BMW, Japan Inc., and Hyundai all have built and/or expanded plants in the US in the past few years. Without the straightjacket of collective bargaining they can hire the best workers by paying them a bit more. They can also fire the ones that don't perform - as well as those who abuse their work privileges or set a bad example.

Agreed that GM management doesn't seem to be the brightest bunch of people based on many of their decisions. But its UAW workers that screw the cars together and issues with quality and attention to detail lay with them, not management.





if the UAW put half as much energy into productivity & quality improvement as it does into forcing GM into guaranteeing zero layoffs, then it might not need job protection in the first place.

The UAW bargains for an honest days pay for an honest days work. The UAW assembly plants didn't buy cheap trannies, bad engine designs or shitty plastics, bas door switches, cheap insulation or bad wiring harnesses for us to assemble in these vehicles. The aztek, saturn sc2, bonneville sssseeeeiiii and others bombs had absolutely nothing to do with a union meeting. GM wanted to build some stuff cheap for you to be able to afford.


Requiring GM to pay everyone the exact same wage guarantees a mediocre workforce. Imagine if you wanted to hire people for your company and you had zero flexibility in wages – you had to pay everyone the same

:eek: What this causes is competition and corruption, and misdirection of an intended goal. Thats the very basis of a union, fareness and equal opportunity. Thats why in management there is NO teamwork. If the paint dept didn't make their build because 2 sups refuse to work together, fighting over, who's vacation is longer, or who's degree didn't really make sense, or beause one make .10 more than the other. Where is the leadership? Blame it on the big guy who runs the paint machine?


Without the straightjacket of collective bargaining they can hire the best workers by paying them a bit more. They can also fire the ones that don't perform - as well as those who abuse their work privileges or set a bad example.

Can we impeach dub-ya?

But its UAW workers that screw the cars together and issues with quality and attention to detail lay with them, not management.\

:confused: Just how good can you wipe your A$$ with one strip of cheap toilet paper :smile: ? Basically, UAW assembly workers a.s.s.e.m.b.l.e. not manage or decide anything , not purchase ANYTHING. You think the UAW had something to do with the difference between a lexus rx330 and an aztek in terms or comfort, quiteness and reliablity?
 
TC said:
I want to say that I've enjoyed this debate - particularly because I want GM do well (and certainly do not want to see them go under or file bankruptcy). Perhaps this is the wake-up call that everyone at GM needs - a brush with death. Hey, Nissan was left for dead just a few years ago and now they are doing great. For the record, while I think the UAW has hurt GM, I support the workers in the best way possible - I buy GM product. My current daily driver is an 04 Cadillac SRX. With 2 small kids I needed something practical but definitely did not want a mini van. With a 320 HP V8 (which gets better mileage than my wife's 05 RL), seating for 7, 4-wheel drive and room for lots of stuff, and an excellent suspension, it is a very good car. Most car mags also agree that the SRX is an excellent driver's car with great utility.


I agree with you :smile: . Im a UAW worker and I'm just defending the PURPOSE of the union, thats all. Kinda like how i defend the PURPOSE of the Nsx. Yea a zo6(new) will spank it, but its up to the job it was designed for. Sadly even if peole continue to buy the big 3 products, the greed factor will win over most upper management. The HEMI engine plant is rollin like a big truck :biggrin: , but they still wanted to cut cost(labor) :eek: Running an an assembly plant with a skeleton crews was who's decision? When quality suffers, blame it on the guy that came to work 2 minutes late, because the cuts forced MANDITORY overtime(12hrs) and he had to drive another 30 minutes to drop his kid off at another babysitter(dam union boys :biggrin: ) They don't want to cut to make the HEMI a V-tech motor(which had produced 15 mill motors with no recalls), its to pad somebody's pocket. Which is ok, I'm just on the wrong end. :smile:
 
I think that what GM is doing with the Z06, and all of its R/D that went into it, why didnt that use all of that R/Dness and USE it to figure out how to keep the jobs of people in the company and MAKE money. They need to do the following: Have a goal for the end of the week to help improve the company WITHOUT removing workers. And each R/D dude who is doing this, has to do something or HE will be fired.
 
234913170_l.gif
this is what Dodge and ford are doing...having the time of their life becuase they arent as screwed as GM
 
Ko-nsx said:
The UAW bargains for an honest days pay for an honest days work.





Thats the very basis of a union, fareness and equal opportunity. Thats why in management there is NO teamwork. If the paint dept didn't make their build because 2 sups refuse to work together, fighting over, who's vacation is longer, or who's degree didn't really make sense, or beause one make .10 more than the other. ?



how is 50k+ per year an "honest days pay for an honest days work"? when you are talking about mostly persons with only a high school diploma and on the job training?..no matter how fast the line is moving attaching door panels is not worth 50k per year and never will be.


fairness? ?? how is it "fair" that I work my butt off the get training and experience to do my job and then I cant make as much money as some guy who doesn't have the training and experience just because he has worked at that particular shop longer?..how is that f#%kinf fair?

"Equal opportunity"? who the hell said everybody in the workplace was equal?
If I do my job better and faster than another guy we are not "Equal"!!
I am better and deserve more pay...however the Union system doesn't allow that.

I've been in the workforce for 20 years and I have never heard anybody "arguing" about who has more vacation ..that is just obsurd.
 
how is 50k+ per year an "honest days pay for an honest days work"? when you are talking about mostly persons with only a high school diploma and on the job training?..no matter how fast the line is moving attaching door panels is not worth 50k per year and never will be.

Neither is paying someone 262mil for hitting a damn baseball but they have a union and we pay to see them play(on steriods) :eek: . 50k is working overtime(10 to 12 hour mandatory days) for production workers. I just asked 5 production workers in my area if they have degrees. All said yes but they could find nothing that paid DECENT with benefits for their families. 2 B.A degrees, 1 school teacher and an accountant. UAW salaries are negotiated between the 2 parties. No UAW members strikes because they want more money(how much more can i get?), just benefits and job security. That translates to..."hey you managers make some better decisions and come up with something that sells so i can WORK to feed my kids" Im doing my part of the deal do yours!


fairness? ?? how is it "fair" that I work my butt off the get training and experience to do my job and then I cant make as much money as some guy who doesn't have the training and experience just because he has worked at that particular shop longer?..how is that f#%kinf fair?

Not to be an A$$, i do respect you and your comments, but when you represent as many workers as UAW how cost effective is it to go around and grade everybody on how fast you can screw in the interior of a car? I don't know what you do for a living or were you work, but, if you worked here and we did the same job, we'd get paid the same. Since you apparrently are trained more and work faster than everyone at your job, you obviously should get paid more. If you were working for me, and you want to bump out this older guy(because your better) i'd make SURE I GOT ALL MY MONEY OUT OF YOU :biggrin:. A Z06 works faster and is better trained(using some new technology compared to the nsx, i mean) but did you buy one?


"Equal opportunity"? who the hell said everybody in the workplace was equal?
If I do my job better and faster than another guy we are not "Equal"!!
I am better and deserve more pay...however the Union system doesn't allow that.

You must be the 6 million dollar man, wolverine, blade or something :rolleyes: . if i worked next to you and you had been at the company for 30 years, and made 22.50, and i outworked you should i get paid $3 more and get rid of your ass? Maybe since you can't work as fast as this next guy, i should MAKE you work faster and disregarding all the hard years you have given our company. Maybe i should say "i could care less how long you been here, worked your ass off, got hurt and all that", your fired because your old and the wipper snapper takes your job. You are the weakest link ......... bye bye. I promise you, you will wish you could call somebody!!!!!


I've been in the workforce for 20 years and I have never heard anybody "arguing" about who has more vacation ..that is just obsurd.
Is it? I've personally seen sups argue about everything from degrees and pay, to the how you should dress. If i came to your job and kissed up to someone or knew someone and got i more day of vacation than you would you be ok with that? Nothing is obsurd in america anymore. :smile:
 
Pacemaker Kid89 said:
234913170_l.gif
this is what Dodge and ford are doing...having the time of their life becuase they arent as screwed as GM

Were did you get the picture of the animal dancing? Do you know were i can find the other break dancing one?
 
Ko-nsx said:
Were did you get the picture of the animal dancing? Do you know were i can find the other break dancing one?

I found it on someone myspace and I thought that it would be enjoy by the NSXprime forum users. Seriously.


I think this might be better then the dancing Spiderman:smile:
 
Ko-nsx said:
Not to be an A$$, i do respect you and your comments, but when you represent as many workers as UAW how cost effective is it to go around and grade everybody on how fast you can screw in the interior of a car? I don't know what you do for a living or were you work, but, if you worked here and we did the same job, we'd get paid the same. Since you apparrently are trained more and work faster than everyone at your job, you obviously should get paid more. If you were working for me, and you want to bump out this older guy(because your better) i'd make SURE I GOT ALL MY MONEY OUT OF YOU :biggrin:. A Z06 works faster and is better trained(using some new technology compared to the nsx, i mean) but did you buy one?
:

one of the major things any company has to do is "grade" their workers and figureout who is producing and who is not..if you don't your company is doomed to failure.

I do not buy a Zo6 because it is a crappy car and I prefer my NSX, compairing cars to employees is really not cool.
 
zahntech said:
one of the major things any company has to do is "grade" their workers and figureout who is producing and who is not..if you don't your company is doomed to failure.

I do not buy a Zo6 because it is a crappy car and I prefer my NSX, compairing cars to employees is really not cool.

The workers in the plants are graded. The Factory Information System or as we call it FIS shows prduction time, count and build time for every piece of machinery in the plant. For example, a job in my area loading the rear sill of the dodge ram truck takes an estimated 47 seconds between parts. After the palm button is hit the employee has 47 seconds to load the next part before a "slow load(which is coded yellow on the screen)" fault appears on the FIS screen. If an employees get excessive slow load faults, management disciplines him with one day off. The next step is 5 days off then your out the door.(not sure the exact details). For skilled trades when certain areas are red that is bad, that means the production line has stopped. The FIS is monitored from detroit(execs) as well as our plant manager's home 24/7. If we sit idle to long(red), or we(as a shift area) have to many slow loads(yellows) or stations waiting on carriers(backed up in paint), all these people on golf carts and walkie talkies start getting in supervisors butts. As you know crap travels down hill :smile: . If management wanted to fire me for sleeping on the job, tardies, cooking hotdogs or coming in late.......and i was guilty with no legitimate excuse, i'm out the door. Nothing the union can do can get me reinstated, ask any car plant worker for the big three. Anyone can grade, but who can find the real problems, come up with solutions and show results???? This country(others have them as well) was built on unions, now all of a sudden unions are the reasons companies fail? Again, GM is not in the hole because of the UAW.

I never thought about the coolness of cars and employees, just used them for a comparison(this is a car site). Well IMHO, you posting about why pay a guy screwing a door panel on 50k, when you have now idea how hard these people work, or understand the condition of U.S. car plants, is not cool :cool: either.
 
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