How critical is high mileage?

[Legobrad90]

Good day all,

I was wondering how high mileage affects the NSX vice other cars. Buying a high mileage Ferrari from the 90's would be a death sentence however with the NSX's reputation of being very reliable is this as much of a problem? I am in the market for a first gen NSX and wanted to know how much of an impact mileage could potentially be. I know it also depends heavily on how well the car was maintained and driven. What are your experiences with your NSX? What's your mileage and how much critical maintenance was needed along the way? Thank you for your time.

 

[Honcho]

Welcome to NSX Prime!

If properly maintained, mileage generally isn't an issue with the NSX as both the engine and transmission will easily run for 250,000+ miles. My view, however, is generally that the old saying that the NSX is as "reliable as a Honda Accord" isn't really true anymore. It was true when the NSX was a new car. Now, it's a classic car. And, as classics go, the NSX is still quite reliable, but there are things that simply wear out because it's old.

It's more the age than the mileage now. A this point in the car's life cycle, most NSXs will require an engine-out TB/WP service that also replaces all of the rubber on the top of the engine and the crank pulley. Budget $3,000-$5,000 for that job and it needs to be a mechanic who knows what they are doing. We call this the "Engine Refresh" and it's typically due around 20 years of age.

After that, other age-related items owners typically encounter regardless of maintenance are:

• Full brake overhaul (new seals/pistons)
• New shocks
• All 23 coolant hoses
• Window regulators and guide rails cleaned/greased (they need to come out)
• Capacitors replaced in CCU and gauge cluster
• Bose speaker amp rebuild
• ABS rebuild or replace with MY2000+ unit
• Driveshaft overhaul (including re-pack needle bearings)
• Fuel injector clean/balance + new fuel filter + fuel pump and hoses
• Intake manifold/throttle body overhaul
• HVAC rebuild
• Clutch master/slave (likely)
• Brake master (likely)

That's just the mechanical stuff. Then there is all the cosmetic. Replacing old leather trim, paint correction, replacing worn interior plastic, etc.

What's interesting is that the above list is pretty much a "must" for any 91-01 NSX at this point in the car's life. Even the 02-05 cars are starting to approach this menu of work. Also interesting is that this list does not appear in the car's official maintenance chart. So, most of the cars that sell for big dollars on BaT also need this stuff. Once a car becomes a "classic", it is foolish and unsophisticated (to me anyway) to rely on the simplified list in the owner's manual to gauge a car's health/value. When you see a NSX at auction that says "all maintenance up to date," at this point in the NSX's life, that means very little to me. For a 2017 GT-R, or a 2015 M3, for example, it's much more meaningful because those cars are still relatively new. On a 30-year old NSX, it's the floor, not the ceiling.

Don't be afraid to reach out to us on the forum regarding cars you are looking at. There are a LOT of experienced eyes here that can help steer you to the right car. A well-sorted NSX is still one of the best cars to drive in the world.

 

[Legobrad90]

Welcome to NSX Prime!

If properly maintained, mileage generally isn't an issue with the NSX as both the engine and transmission will easily run for 250,000+ miles. My view, however, is generally that the old saying that the NSX is as "reliable as a Honda Accord" isn't really true anymore. It was true when the NSX was a new car. Now, it's a classic car. And, as classics go, the NSX is still quite reliable, but there are things that simply wear out because it's old.

It's more the age than the mileage now. A this point in the car's life cycle, most NSXs will require an engine-out TB/WP service that also replaces all of the rubber on the top of the engine and the crank pulley. Budget $3,000-$5,000 for that job and it needs to be a mechanic who knows what they are doing. We call this the "Engine Refresh" and it's typically due around 20 years of age.

After that, other age-related items owners typically encounter regardless of maintenance are:

• Full brake overhaul (new seals/pistons)
• New shocks
• All 23 coolant hoses
• Window regulators and guide rails cleaned/greased (they need to come out)
• Capacitors replaced in CCU and gauge cluster
• Bose speaker amp rebuild
• ABS rebuild or replace with MY2000+ unit
• Driveshaft overhaul (including re-pack needle bearings)
• Fuel injector clean/balance + new fuel filter + fuel pump and hoses
• Intake manifold/throttle body overhaul
• HVAC rebuild
• Clutch master/slave (likely)
• Brake master (likely)

That's just the mechanical stuff. Then there is all the cosmetic. Replacing old leather trim, paint correction, replacing worn interior plastic, etc.

What's interesting is that the above list is pretty much a "must" for any 91-01 NSX at this point in the car's life. Even the 02-05 cars are starting to approach this menu of work. Also interesting is that this list does not appear in the car's official maintenance chart. So, most of the cars that sell for big dollars on BaT also need this stuff. Once a car becomes a "classic", it is foolish and unsophisticated (to me anyway) to rely on the simplified list in the owner's manual to gauge a car's health/value. When you see a NSX at auction that says "all maintenance up to date," at this point in the NSX's life, that means very little to me. For a 2017 GT-R, or a 2015 M3, for example, it's much more meaningful because those cars are still relatively new. On a 30-year old NSX, it's the floor, not the ceiling.

Don't be afraid to reach out to us on the forum regarding cars you are looking at. There are a LOT of experienced eyes here that can help steer you to the right car. A well-sorted NSX is still one of the best cars to drive in the world.

Thank you very much for all this great information! The maintenance list is also very helpful.

I live in Japan and am looking at a few of the NSX's in the local area. I have someone here that can look at and buy the car directly. Here is one of the cars I have been eyeing for awhile. Wondering if there are any red flags other than there being no photo of the engine compartment. I want an automatic and with the exchange rate the price is currently $47,010. Really apricate all the help.

HONDA NSX BASEGRADE | 1990 | BLACK | 165000 km | details.- Japanese used cars.Goo-net Exchange

Japanese used cars and Japan car exporters. 320,000 used car stocks.Website 'Goo-net Exchange' shall make all of customers satisfied to buy Cars from us.Search for used HONDA NSX BASEGRADE details.

www.goo-net-exchange.com

 

[docjohn]

I am the original owner of a 96 and It runs and feels great esp with my new coilovers...I have had a open checkbook policy and now play wackamole with the stuff that fails. like the starter cylinder. Its the old school electronics in the bulkhead that start to gum up. My radio and cassette deck are non functioning, but I don't care..

 

[fastfwd]

What's your mileage and how much critical maintenance was needed along the way?

Posted this seven years ago:

Thread '300' https://www.nsxprime.com/threads/300.196252/

Still have the car. The windows are starting to slow down, but everything else still works like new.

 

[LeftyF]

Posted this seven years ago:

Thread '300' https://www.nsxprime.com/threads/300.196252/

Still have the car. The windows are starting to slow down, but everything else still works like new.

My windows are slow on a ‘91 with 43k miles, so that seems to be more about age than mileage.

 

[Superhatch]

47 seems like a pretty good deal for that car imo. The seats are in good shape and the interior and front area look show low signs of wear.

As mentioned above there is still a lot of maint to do, but that doesn't all need to be done at the same time. Getting maintenance history is critical and a shot of the engine bay. Does Japan have anything like CarFax?

Also 100k isn't high mileage to me on these cars. I got mine at 270 and put on 10k a year in the last two years and I did only some of the basics (Hoses, timing belt, water pump) for piece of mind and planned on doing the other stuff when they failed.

I did a new suspension (koni/eibach), and bushings as well and that really helped with the overall feel of the car. This is a US market analysis thread which you can maybe use as a reference as to where your car should be valued compared to other cars, even if you're looking in Japan. https://www.nsxprime.com/threads/sticky-gen1-nsx-current-market-analysis.199875/

Good luck and welcome to the board!

 

[docnsx]

welcome and hopeful your search proves successful. the info above is spot on as most regardless of mileage need these updates repairs. as time and age is the biggest issue . what is comforting is the people and knowledge on this forum are awesome and very helpful even to novices. my car only having 40k has had most of the listed issues performed most recently the hoses and abs issue, the climate was rebuilt the window regulators were redone, speakers and oem radio replaced, as well as the normal maintenance with brakes, coolant, oil, etc, this in no way should discourage you from ownership as a similar high end car you pick the manufacturer from this generation will have the same and probably more issues and more costly and frustrating to repair...

 

[esqu1re]

After having bought a mid-mileage NA2 from BaT recently, I can attest that these cars do need a lot of the items due to age. I took my car to a reputable mechanic in MD and had a lot of items replaced due to old and leaky rubber. I'm curious to see if similar or older cars with especially low mileage that go for the upper end of prices at auction have the above mentioned issues. I suspect they do because when I was at the shop, I saw a NA1 with less than 10k miles that had its engine out because its original coolant had acidified and dissolved it's way out of the block.

 

[Jr Mint]

I have an 84k mile 2003 that has no issues. As long as you take care of them, store them properly, and maintain them, they will be fine. It's a Honda after all...

 

[Honcho]

Thank you very much for all this great information! The maintenance list is also very helpful.

I live in Japan and am looking at a few of the NSX's in the local area. I have someone here that can look at and buy the car directly. Here is one of the cars I have been eyeing for awhile. Wondering if there are any red flags other than there being no photo of the engine compartment. I want an automatic and with the exchange rate the price is currently $47,010. Really apricate all the help.

HONDA NSX BASEGRADE | 1990 | BLACK | 165000 km | details.- Japanese used cars.Goo-net Exchange

Japanese used cars and Japan car exporters. 320,000 used car stocks.Website 'Goo-net Exchange' shall make all of customers satisfied to buy Cars from us.Search for used HONDA NSX BASEGRADE details.

www.goo-net-exchange.com

It's hard to tell because the ad is limited in information, but that NSX looks pretty good. The interior appears to be in good shape for the age and mileage. The mismatched wheels are a little odd though. Because it's an AT, your number 1 maintenance concern is that AT box. I have discussed this at length in other posts, but the short version is that all NSX AT transmissions need service at around 100,000 miles. This is because of clutch dust buildup inside the hydraulic system. It can't be completely removed during fluid drains because the filter is inside the transmission. You need to at a minimum to replace the filter and the shift solenoid screens (they're like the VTEC solenoid screens). You may be able to re-use the clutch packs but they need to be inspected. A properly maintained AT is not fragile and is not weak- it will shift crisply and give you another 100,000 miles of NSX enjoyment. I had an AT NSX as well and I think it's fantastic- don't fall for the internet hate.

Now, the good news. You're in Japan. That means you have access to the best NSX service talent in the world. T3TEC in Iruma City has the special equipment needed to service the AT box (only a few shops worldwide do). I would contact Mr. Toyoizumi and set up a general inspection and AT service appointment. He can give you the menu of service the car needs to stay tip-top. It will likely include many of the items I listed above. If the engine isn't visibly leaking oil anywhere and is not burning oil, you might be able to get away with putting off the refresh service for a couple of years. He can also work with you to stagger the services to manage cost- it will be expensive. I would do the AT first and then worry about the rest later. No matter which NSX you buy, T3TEC would be my first choice for service. KSP Engineering, Route KS, Spoon, Advance, and Racing Factory Yamamoto are all also very good, depending on your location in Japan.

 

[Legobrad90]

47 seems like a pretty good deal for that car imo. The seats are in good shape and the interior and front area look show low signs of wear.

As mentioned above there is still a lot of maint to do, but that doesn't all need to be done at the same time. Getting maintenance history is critical and a shot of the engine bay. Does Japan have anything like CarFax?

Also 100k isn't high mileage to me on these cars. I got mine at 270 and put on 10k a year in the last two years and I did only some of the basics (Hoses, timing belt, water pump) for piece of mind and planned on doing the other stuff when they failed.

I did a new suspension (koni/eibach), and bushings as well and that really helped with the overall feel of the car. This is a US market analysis thread which you can maybe use as a reference as to where your car should be valued compared to other cars, even if you're looking in Japan. https://www.nsxprime.com/threads/sticky-gen1-nsx-current-market-analysis.199875/

Good luck and welcome to the board!

Thank you very much for checking out the car. It seems from most of the replies I have received so far point out that age is a bigger issue than mileage. I do not know if there is a CarFax equivalent for japan so that is something else I will look into. Thank you again for your feedback and advice.

 

[Legobrad90]

welcome and hopeful your search proves successful. the info above is spot on as most regardless of mileage need these updates repairs. as time and age is the biggest issue . what is comforting is the people and knowledge on this forum are awesome and very helpful even to novices. my car only having 40k has had most of the listed issues performed most recently the hoses and abs issue, the climate was rebuilt the window regulators were redone, speakers and oem radio replaced, as well as the normal maintenance with brakes, coolant, oil, etc, this in no way should discourage you from ownership as a similar high end car you pick the manufacturer from this generation will have the same and probably more issues and more costly and frustrating to repair...

Thank you for sharing this information. It is helpful to know that even a low mileage NSX can have these problems and that age is the real issue. I will keep that in mind while checking out the market.

 

[Old Guy]

when I was at the shop, I saw a NA1 with less than 10k miles that had its engine out because its original coolant had acidified and dissolved it's way out of the block.

That particular problem would appear to be a complete lack of maintenance. Coolant replacement is a time based thing. You would need a chemist to tell you what components in the coolant are becoming acidic; but, generally time = acidification. My understanding is that the OAT style coolants are more resistant to acidification; but, I don't know what the chemistry is of the Honda coolants.

As an interesting test, if you have a good quality digital multimeter you can measure the galvanic potential in the coolant system. Negative test lead to engine ground and positive test lead suspended in the coolant tank - clean test leads with IPA prior to test. Internet wisdom says that below 0.100 volts the 'potential' for corrosion in minimal / non existent. You can find sources that suggest that you are OK up to 0.200 - 0.400 volts. My NSX is kicking around 0.040 - 0.50 volts; but, I am doing the flush because at 23 years its time to do the hoses and I am over 5 years on the coolant which exceeds Honda's guaranteed safe guidelines.

For @Legobrad90, a better indication of future maintenance risks might be the maintenance records. If the maintenance records exist you should get a vibe for how much extraordinary maintenance has been carried out. If there is a long record of maintenance including discretionary items such as coolant hoses and the like, that is a good sign. No maintenance records would be a really bad sign.

Finally, as Honcho points out the NSX is a Classic car. As a Classic car it probably qualifies as one of the most reliable Classic cars; but, it is still a classic. You should expect more future issues. I expect that most people here have a regular daily driver and the NSX is really a hobby car. If you are thinking reliable as in you plan to use it as a daily driver that can be repaired easily at the dealership if something goes wrong, that is a bad plan. Even in Japan NSX specialists won't be around the corner. If it breaks down and you can't do your own repairs its likely a tow job to the specialist and no car for a while if this is your only car.

 

[Nsxsi]

I have an 84k mile 2003 that has no issues. As long as you take care of them, store them properly, and maintain them, they will be fine. It's a Honda after all...

I saw your post selling this car on cars and bids I am very interested send me an email at [email protected]

 

[bullithollywood]

Would be interesting to have some owners with really high mileage carsj (assumes most all existing NSXs are over 20yrs ) give feedback on Honchos must do lifecycle maint list. i.e. Which items on their cars did or did not make it to their current age and mileage.

 

[fastfwd]

Would be interesting to have some owners with really high mileage carsj (assumes most all existing NSXs are over 20yrs ) give feedback on Honchos must do lifecycle maint list. i.e. Which items on their cars did or did not make it to their current age and mileage.

My car, 1994 with 320K+ miles, has needed only these items from Honcho's list:

• New shocks
• All 23 coolant hoses
• Window regulators and guide rails cleaned/greased (Not actually done yet, but will happen soon)
• Capacitors replaced in CCU and gauge cluster
• Bose speaker amp rebuild
• ABS rebuild or replace with MY2000+ unit (Probably should have done this; disabled ABS instead.)
• Fuel injector clean/balance + new fuel filter + fuel pump and hoses
• Clutch master/slave
• Replacing old leather trim, paint correction, replacing worn interior plastic, etc.

 

[JPS Europa]

Mine also a 94, but with only 67K miles, my list looks pretty much like above. Garaged at all times, my leather and paint look very good and my shocks are still OK. I will send my injectors out for rebuilding, but will wait till the snow falls.

 

[docjohn]

my 27 yo windows are still on original hardware...had mine out for 2 gathering today..

 

[bullithollywood]

My car, 1994 with 320K+ miles, has needed only these items from Honcho's list:

• New shocks
• All 23 coolant hoses
• Window regulators and guide rails cleaned/greased (Not actually done yet, but will happen soon)
• Capacitors replaced in CCU and gauge cluster
• Bose speaker amp rebuild
• ABS rebuild or replace with MY2000+ unit (Probably should have done this; disabled ABS instead.)
• Fuel injector clean/balance + new fuel filter + fuel pump and hoses
• Clutch master/slave
• Replacing old leather trim, paint correction, replacing worn interior plastic, etc.

So no drive shaft CV joint maint or engine motor mount issues?
CV Joint grease tends to lose viscosity over time and it seems motor mounts are a problem on all aged Hondas.

 

[fastfwd]

So no drive shaft CV joint maint or engine motor mount issues?
CV Joint grease tends to lose viscosity over time and it seems motor mounts are a problem on all aged Hondas.

No motor-mount issues.

I guess I don't know what @Honcho meant by halfshaft "overhaul". The CVs haven't been replaced, but they've certainly gotten new grease when torn boots were replaced.

 

[Honcho]

No motor-mount issues.

I guess I don't know what @Honcho meant by halfshaft "overhaul". The CVs haven't been replaced, but they've certainly gotten new grease when torn boots were replaced.

Replacing the grease during a boot change is great and will mostly get you there. However, it's recommended to clean and re-pack the roller bearings because it's very hard to get the dirt and sludge/old grease out of them with just a grease change. The "wear" on the CV joint mostly occurs here- the machined surface of the roller pits and corrodes away- mostly from water contamination (cracked boot) and/or loss of lubrication from old grease. I should have taken a picture of the pitted surface during the job, but you can kinda sorta see the wear here:



This roller is actually in really good shape, but you can still see the wear track lines from the roller pins. Even a pitted roller is usually ok (several of mine were), but at some point there is no more surface on which the roller pins can run and you start to get noise and vibration. The only way to completely stop this corrosion is to clean and pack the bearings.



Note the grease above is red because I'm using Redline CV-2 instead of the Honda goop. It holds up better at high temps. Depending on how often you drive your NSX and the condition of the boots, this should be done every 5-10 years. A simpler way is every TB job since the axles will be out for that anyway.