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how much income per year is 'enough'?

i'd like to say i'm happy to see that after 3 pages, and some pretty obvious differences in opinion... this is a great discussion.

I originally was just curious as to what you guys felt would be required for the "I need to make $XXXXX per year to be comfortable in mind and body."

The discourse has taken (IMO) a far more interesting turn, since it IS true... there's no "real" answer to my original question... just shades of gray

gerry
 
I still feel the answer isn't specific, as it varies based on cost of living, expenses, etc. I think as long as your TOTAL expenses (mortgage, utilities, healthcare, travel, food, recreation, etc.) doesn't exceed 50% of your income (after taxes have been removed), you're "comfortable" - which is assuming you don't have yourself as deep in credit card debt. The lower that percentage can be - the better.
 
I agree with what you saying maybe you missed one part where I posted but I did mention I'm all for donations for cancer research, disease, etc. I'm just pointing out that as you call it bad rich pretty much takes away a huge amount of wealth that could been earned by the lower class to support themselves better.

Wowzers Peisberg you sure made a big one hehe. That's awesome you donate to all those charities and it's awesome that your able to donate to so many organizations. Although wow you sure work a lot must be tough.

I think you guys have misread what my example was about. In my example I mentioned compressing the income range by 5 percent maybe even 10 or more. Now even if this was implemented all CEO of all companies would not receive the same pay. If you have a company that is making 3 billion dollar profit a year and then another company making 1 million dollar profits a year, the CEO of a 3 billion dollar profiting company will be making a larger amount than a CEO of a million dollar profiting company. If you make your company perform better you get the larger amount of profits hence there's the incentive for innovation and success. I was talking about compressing the range for you specific business... not capping pays for all industries. Either way we could jump back and forth correcting I'm just saying compressing the range could redistribute wealth amongst your employs and increase the majority of your workers lives... oh well.

It was fun debating you guys but I'm a head out again :) take cares.

There is an unlimited amount of money to be earned.
 
The discourse has taken (IMO) a far more interesting turn, since it IS true... there's no "real" answer to my original question... just shades of gray

gerry

People that recognize this are wise, and further, those that recognize it come from all income levels (not just the wealthy).


Midnight -- I categorically disagree with your statement that (paraphrased) "the Bad rich make lots of money, but spend it on frivolous stuff, when that money could be better used by the poor."

The Bad rich, created that wealth for themselves. They can do with it as they please. The poor (generally) don't create wealth for anyone. My point in contrasting these Bad rich with Bill Gates is simply that, after some level of wealth X, they could use their money for more productive things than simply stimulating the economy by purchasing more yachts. The latter is not the worst thing in the world, but it's not the best either.

Bill Gates has a God-given ability to create value, and he is using that ability to create in an area outside of his professional realm (software). Other people, of lesser character, will not do that. Instead, they only create value in their professional realm (Good), and spend it in the current economy (Neutral).
 
If I make at the 98th percentile for an American male at my age I think I'm doing alright. I don't know if I'm at that point right now, but I'm probably pretty close.

I don't know about that. Just because you live in africa, and live in a 1 room studio with running water... that probably puts you in the 98th percentile.

"all right" is a state of mind.


What i've realized is being in the 90th percentile should be "all right." But in the USA, 90th percentile just means you live in a nicer house. It doesn't mean Lear Jet, nice vacation home, and AMG mercedes... unless you are way over stretched, and 1/4 paycheck away from being destitute. In the USA it takes way more than that. what percentile is $100k/yr? I'm asking because it's probably way the hell up there percentile wise... and $100k/yr is really $62-63k/yr after taxes.. $5k/month! Not exactly "Living large." $2k for a "decent" house... not really extravagent, ESPECIALLY if you are in an upscale area.... $500/month for car.. etc... Retirement? what's that?

gerry
 
I agree this was a nice discussion, definitely I get to see what other people who aren't in the same boat as I feel. Best of luck with you all but I don't feel like debating anymore lol.
 
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I have been pondering this thread for a few days and asked some friends what they thought was their answer.

But today I went to a funeral. As expected there were many people with different income and different age groups.

I noticed some older retired people which I assume are receiving a very limited old age government pension. They seems quite happy and content with their lives.

I saw some successful people as well. 1 gentlemen is an owner of a golf course. He seemed happy as well.

Sometimes more money makes life easier. But money also raises the bar in maintenance and sustainability.

I guess what I got out of all this was. No amount of money will save you from death. Money can either prolong or accelerate it but its going to happen. If you have a great family and great friends and are happy with your life then that is really all that matters.
 
interesting comment - i'm not informed enough to agree / disagree - so would appreciated any supporting data / links you care to supply.

I left off a zero:) I was really just illustrating a point more than anything. The top 10'ish percent of earned income earners provide the lionshare of horsepower to quite a few industries that support many jobs and livelihoods. I say earned income specifically to exclude to the quasi-aristocratic families like the Kennedy's and Rockefellers that have most of there wealth protected from taxation that impacts most high W2 earners.

I used the yacht culture as one example. Often times these expenditures seems silly to most people, but there are positive side-effects of this type of consumption. A large public Software Co. CEO acquaintence of mine has a mega yacht, regular old mack daddy yacht, top of line personal jet, etc... etc. Even if I could afford those luxuries, I would not live that kind of life because it's just not me. However, I don't begrudge him for it. Aside from the thousands of people he employs from his ideas many years ago, these lavish toys also support many other lives. He employs somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 people just to take care of his stuff. Pilots, captains, crew, caterers, etc. Those folks live a nice life on account of his luxuries.

As for govt spending, without the contributions via sales tax revs, property tax revs, and income tax revs from the top 10%... the government would not even meet payroll for govt employees, no less all the contractors, and no less any new porgrams. The horspeower that drives new spending programs and acquistions across the board in the govt world, is the funding over and above steady state costs. The best example I can think of is OPEC. Even though they do not produce the majority of the oil in the world, they do control the net excess oil which is used to meet demand growth. Without the OPEC countries.... oil would be 1000 a barrel.
 
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I left off a zero:) I was really just illustrating a point more than anything. The top 10'ish percent of earned income earners provide the lionshare of horsepower to quite a few industries that support many jobs and livelihoods. I say earned income specifically to exclude to the quasi-aristocratic families like the Kennedy's and Rockefellers that have most of there wealth protected from taxation that impacts most high W2 earners.

I used the yacht culture as one example. Often times these expenditures seems silly to most people, but there are positive side-effects of this type of consumption. A large public Software Co. CEO acquaintence of mine has a mega yacht, regular old mack daddy yacht, top of line personal jet, etc... etc. Even if I could afford those luxuries, I would not live that kind of life because it's just not me. However, I don't begrudge him for it. Aside from the thousands of people he employs from his ideas many years ago, these lavish toys also support many other lives. He employs somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 people just to take care of his stuff. Pilots, captains, crew, caterers, etc. Those folks live a nice life on account of his luxuries.

As for govt spending, without the contributions via sales tax revs, property tax revs, and income tax revs from the top 10%... the government would not even meet payroll for govt employees, no less all the contractors, and no less any new porgrams. The horspeower that drives new spending programs and acquistions across the board in the govt world, is the funding over and above steady state costs. The best example I can think of is OPEC. Even though they do not produce the majority of the oil in the world, they do control the net excess oil which is used to meet demand growth. Without the OPEC countries.... oil would be 1000 a barrel.
gotcha, thx!

i'm curious, the ceo you cite - is he the founder of the company he's the ceo of?
 
I am curious about the educational backgrounds of folks in this thread? Parents jobs, or persons who raised you from the beginning and if that rubbed off on some of you.

What types of firms, businesses do you own, work for or run? Medical, Professional?

I find it damn hard to "come up", but with the cards I have been dealt, I feel I have done a good job...mainly because there is always room for improvement.

I am happy for everyone in this thread that can do well for their family and friends.
Furthermore, what do I DO to get ahead more. I know small steps at a time...Long term goals.
 
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Well I kind of mentioned some of our family history in my first post in the thread. Although they are factory line workers for the past 25ish years, for a plastic bag making company. I've worked in that factory as well for one summer it's tough, hot and very loud. Not a job I would want to do for most of my life, but I understand that they need to earn money to support us so they went through it for that long.

I ended up going to college and earning a bachelors degree for Mechanical Engineering and now have a good paying job :) (I feel lucky considering only 1/5 of all graduating 2009 students got job offers). I want to get myself a masters degree later on but want to pay off my school debt first before I start taking classes again. Hopefully after 3 years I'll be able to go back part time. I know my parent are proud and happy for me so I'm definitely feel like I made all their effort and struggling for these paste 25 or so years worth it.
 
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Wow...what a crazy thread....

I always find it amazing when people think the "rich" should help the "less rich" or poor...... more than they do or it is assumed that they do...
Everyone...unless mentally or physically handicapped has the ability to make their life what they want it...
I get so frustrated when I hear people say “my parents where factory workers…I can’t believe how great I’m doing with that type of upbringing” or “I grew up in a ghetto with no way out”….that’s all a lazy, pansy way of thinking….
You wanted to be a doctor, but mommy and daddy couldn’t pay for school…join the army, they will make you a great doctor…most people don’t want to take the road to get there, they just want to arrive… or have the “rich” help them arrive

As far as the OT…
I have been broke (since birth...yeah my mom made no money too)…I have made tons of loot….i have done/been both a couple times now... and I guess I feel the same comfort or happiness either way….for the most part I have lived within my means which made it easier….i might not retire as well off as someone else, but I will retire better off than most…I think you will always see something else you want or somewhere else you want to be…until you have the means to get it or go, then it doesn’t seem as desirable… just my .02
 
Wow...what a crazy thread....

I always find it amazing when people think the "rich" should help the "less rich" or poor...... more than they do or it is assumed that they do...
Everyone...unless mentally or physically handicapped has the ability to make their life what they want it...
I get so frustrated when I hear people say “my parents where factory workers…I can’t believe how great I’m doing with that type of upbringing” or “I grew up in a ghetto with no way out”….that’s all a lazy, pansy way of thinking….
You wanted to be a doctor, but mommy and daddy couldn’t pay for school…join the army, they will make you a great doctor…most people don’t want to take the road to get there, they just want to arrive… or have the “rich” help them arrive

As far as the OT…
I have been broke (since birth...yeah my mom made no money too)…I have made tons of loot….i have done/been both a couple times now... and I guess I feel the same comfort or happiness either way….for the most part I have lived within my means which made it easier….i might not retire as well off as someone else, but I will retire better off than most…I think you will always see something else you want or somewhere else you want to be…until you have the means to get it or go, then it doesn’t seem as desirable… just my .02

Wowzer those words were more direct than a line! I guess I should feel hurt or something but oh well lol.

All I'm going to say is the most important things I've learned from them is that to get anywhere in life you need to work hard and keep working for what you want. I don't see what is pansy or lazy about that, it's the exact opposite. My example show's just that. My parents aren't the smartest people of the bunch and their hardships shows exactly the effect of that. I understood what made them live that hard life and I am myself getting a education so I can live an easier yet more successful life. They worked hard for me and my sisters so now I work hard for them and myself.

Am I saying they deserve better no, I don't. Would it be good if they did get it better yeah it would. If my mother wanted she could of finished college, yes she got there, but never finished. My dad didn't even finish high school but back in our home country and his time working at home was actually more important than education so it's something that his household brought upon him I guess. Hence why they are factory workers to begin with.

Man some people need to lighten up though hehe it's only a discussion. I don't think I've labeled anyone yet although I can pick out a couple of times I've been labeled negatively. Although I could understand the majority of you guys are "rich" so I see how me saying the CEO of a company that makes billions a year should have a certain percentage of his pay reduced would kind of anger you. Sorry if I hurt your feeling people.
 
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Although I could understand the majority of you guys are "rich"...
as i write this post, there have been >1600 views of this thread. not all who have posted thus far have said or indicated they are financially "rich"; likewise, it seems unlikely to me that all 1600+ viewers are - or consider themselves - to be "rich".

my take is most of the folks who have posted & viewed have worked smart / hard to attain whatever station they are at or hope to be @ some point.

best success in your efforts to achieve the level of success you desire :)
 
Wowzer those words were more direct than a line! I guess I should feel hurt or something but oh well lol.

All I'm going to say is the most important things I've learned from them is that to get anywhere in life you need to work hard and keep working for what you want. I don't see what is pansy or lazy about that, it's the exact opposite. My example show's just that. My parents aren't the smartest people of the bunch and their hardships shows exactly the effect of that. I understood what made them live that hard life and I am myself getting a education so I can live an easier yet more successful life. They worked hard for me and my sisters so now I work hard for them and myself.

Am I saying they deserve better no, I don't. Would it be good if they did get it better yeah it would. If my mother wanted she could of finished college, yes she got there, but never finished. My dad didn't even finish high school but back in our home country and his time working at home was actually more important than education so it's something that his household brought upon him I guess. Hence why they are factory workers to begin with.

Man some people need to lighten up though hehe it's only a discussion. I don't think I've labeled anyone yet although I can pick out a couple of times I've been labeled negatively. Although I could understand the majority of you guys are "rich" so I see how me saying the CEO of a company that makes billions a year should have a certain percentage of his pay reduced would kind of anger you. Sorry if I hurt your feeling people.


It has nothing to do with being rich. It's a mind set, no one owes anyone anything. What would be the sense in working hard if only to have the pay for the hard work distributed? Your parents are richer than people in Africa. Should your parents have to give up half their paycheck and have it sent to people in Africa? How about have 50 bucks a week taken out of their paycheck and give it to bums on the streets? Why not the bums have less money than your parents have.

Where does it end? This way of thinking doesn't produce more rich people it only lowers the bar as to who is rich.
 
It has nothing to do with being rich. It's a mind set, no one owes anyone anything. What would be the sense in working hard if only to have the pay for the hard work distributed? Your parents are richer than people in Africa. Should your parents have to give up half their paycheck and have it sent to people in Africa? How about have 50 bucks a week taken out of their paycheck and give it to bums on the streets? Why not the bums have less money than your parents have.

Where does it end? This way of thinking doesn't produce more rich people it only lowers the bar as to who is rich.

Well said!
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
Like others have mentioned, how much is greatly determined by location, situation, and goals. From my perspective, “enough” is when I have the ability to produce enough passive income through diversity to live my life. Things that have aided this effort have been surrounding myself with trusting, intelligent, driven people and living well, well below my means. The end benefit has allowed me to spend all the time in the world with my family and friends and pursue some personal goals on the sideJ All while ensuring that the next generation will have every opportunity to pursue their dreams as they grow older.
<O:p</O:p
Do I care about all the starving children in the world, and the many medical conditions that exist? Absolutely! However, I prefer to “help” though the investment of individuals that are driven to succeed and innovate but do not have the means to do so themselves.
<O:p</O:p
 
It has nothing to do with being rich. It's a mind set, no one owes anyone anything. What would be the sense in working hard if only to have the pay for the hard work distributed? Your parents are richer than people in Africa. Should your parents have to give up half their paycheck and have it sent to people in Africa? How about have 50 bucks a week taken out of their paycheck and give it to bums on the streets? Why not the bums have less money than your parents have.

Where does it end? This way of thinking doesn't produce more rich people it only lowers the bar as to who is rich.


Giving this some more thought it made me realize a conversation I had with my wife the other day in regards to club and school athletics. The problem with what is going on today is our society is being bread for mediocracy. IMO, Athletics breed competition, and success is granted to those that put in the time to practice and make sacrifices to win. When I was growing up, there were no ribbons or trophies for 4<SUP>th</SUP>-10<SUP>th</SUP> place. Only the winners and those that were dedicated and talented received awards. Nowadays, there is this need to make everyone feel good about themselves, let everyone play, and give everyone an award. If you are not good at baseball go play another sport and find something that you are good at! This type of belief is starting to translate into our society’s everyday thinking… <O:p</O:p
 
Giving this some more thought it made me realize a conversation I had with my wife the other day in regards to club and school athletics. The problem with what is going on today is our society is being bread for mediocracy. IMO, Athletics breed competition, and success is granted to those that put in the time to practice and make sacrifices to win. When I was growing up, there were no ribbons or trophies for 4<SUP>th</SUP>-10<SUP>th</SUP> place. Only the winners and those that were dedicated and talented received awards. Nowadays, there is this need to make everyone feel good about themselves, let everyone play, and give everyone an award. If you are not good at baseball go play another sport and find something that you are good at! This type of belief is starting to translate into our society’s everyday thinking… <O:p</O:p

Yep so true, if you suck you just suck and need to work harder at something. I started working out about 3 years ago and got into powerlifting about 2 years ago and love it, you can come in being homeless and if you train hard you can outlift anyone at that place no matter how much money they have and you have complete comtrol of work in = work out that's why I love it. Just like when I trade, if I screw up I lose money, if I make a good trade I make money. I think lots of people can not and do not want to take the blame but want the fame for it.
 
Well since it was asked what we do..

my parents are welfare kins/queens. Useless leeches on society, some might say... But they taught me some very valuable lessons!

1:You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. No one can get a dime out of them, no matter what they owe. Landlords, CC companies, etc.

2:The more kids I have, the lower my taxes because of the child deduction

3:You may look down upon them, but that won't save you from paying for them via your taxes. So the satisfaction they get knowing you can't stand them but yet STILL have to pay for their rent and food far offsets any embaressment from your disdain.

4:Now that my "main man" B.O. is in office, not only will my parents hopefully see themselves get a cost of living increase in welfare, but even I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car or paying my mortgage.
It's sweet justice for them, considering they are not allowed to buy a lexus or big TV since only rich people are allowed those things.
 
Well since it was asked what we do..

my parents are welfare kins/queens. Useless leeches on society, some might say... But they taught me some very valuable lessons!

1:You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. No one can get a dime out of them, no matter what they owe. Landlords, CC companies, etc.

2:The more kids I have, the lower my taxes because of the child deduction

3:You may look down upon them, but that won't save you from paying for them via your taxes. So the satisfaction they get knowing you can't stand them but yet STILL have to pay for their rent and food far offsets any embaressment from your disdain.

4:Now that my "main man" B.O. is in office, not only will my parents hopefully see themselves get a cost of living increase in welfare, but even I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car or paying my mortgage.
It's sweet justice for them, considering they are not allowed to buy a lexus or big TV since only rich people are allowed those things.


Sounds like a gravy train. Problem is it's the same gravy everyday. I guess it's ok if you don't have taste buds. :wink::smile:
 
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