My reference to 'playing nice' was to everyone, in general. Does that make it more interesting? And to clarify my stance, and I apologize if I wasn't clear; we all have been on the wrong side of predjudice, in one form or another. When I said 'overly victimized', I was infering that not everyone views it as victimization. More along the lines of ignorance. For example, if both you and I are cut off by the same driver, it's likely because he/she is a tool, and not operating from a racist agenda, whether the tool is a bigot or not. But if he's displaying a confederate bumper sticker, one of us may be inclined to believe the action had malice afore-thought, and was hate-related. When in fact, it's because the other driver didn't see you, so can't possibly know your ethnicity. He is simply a tool. If this helps: 'Shame on you, Brickbbs...' There. Now can we (that's all of us, everyone, and my dog, too!) play nice and get on with luvin' our wheels? You know what's gonna kill this board? If we all come here looking for arguments of a non-auto related subject. I too have gotten into these rebuttal rebuke actions (and seem to have stumbled into another...I must like this kinda thing...I need help...) and it can sour you on wanting to come here and post. Half the time someone is telling you to use the search because 4 years ago the topic was discussed back then, or a subject you're interested in goes way off topic, and feelings get hurt. Blades, I seen many of your posts and find them to be informative, thoughtful, and worth reading. The same is true for Brickbbs. Most of mine are silly, but once in a while they can be serious. If you, or anyone else thinks I'm a tool, that's ok. I won't harbour that sentiment within me, and feel that I am a victim of wise-guy humour predjudice. I'll tell my jokes elsewhere. I was not trying to paint you as the 'angry black man' as you put it. Rather, I was attempting to point out what I saw from what I read. I'm reminded of what some famous dude said once..."If one goes looking for ghosts, then surely you will find them" or something. Or maybe it was an after-school special...arrghhh, so many voices in my head.....errr....where was I??? Oh yeah,...ahem...If you look for racism around every corner, it's a sure bet you'll find it. I can find it by going to Chinatown. Not everyone in Chinatown is racist...far from it, but I don't think it would be too hard to attract it, considering the cultural differences, which I believe are at the heart of almost all racial predjudice. I can't prove it, but human nature fears what it doesn't know or understand. The guy who started this thread found it in a unique way. Is he a victim? To any extent? If you answer yes, then it supports the view that we're all victims, which kinda pulls the teeth from the 'victim' moniker. If you say no, then it sounds as if the only predjudice that's allowed is that which is directed towards you, and your ethnic deliniation. I know you don't hold with that stance, from reading your posts. And though Brickbbs is not overly sensitive, I too get weary of hearing "I'm a victim! I'm a victim!". It sounds kinda wimpy. I got jumped-badly-when I was 20. There were no grey areas here: I was a VICTIM of violence. But I didn't feel like a victim. I felt like I had the sh!t kicked outta me, but there was no addendum attached with a racially motivated tag on my thoughts. And guess what? The 2 assailants were...black. Did I condemn the black people en masse for this? No. Did I think my skin colour had anything to do with it? No. Still don't. If that was the case, I put it down to the INDIVIDUALS' up-bringing, not all black people's up-bringing. This has proven to be true, as I have since made many friends, some of who are black, and none of them has ganged up on me. Good thing I didn't let myself feel 'victimized' as I might have missed out on meeting some great folks. And if I had gone the hater route, I would only be perpetuating the misconceptions I've refered to above. Holy hecuba, this is going on long...if only I could say this with afew words, my fingers wouldn't hurt right now. owww owww hehe...and the big scar above my right eye serves to remind only that when you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, run, Lola, run!!! Not that one colour of asshole is any better or worse than another. I think Blades, you too made solid points, I guess I just wish the anger wasn't there. You may not see it in your words, but even the thinly veiled indicment at the end of your last post, alluding to the 'very interesting' development where you obviously feel my leaning to Brick's POV might just be a unity thing...nothing could be farther from the truth.He and I went hammer and tong through the PM over some issue. And further to the point, I havn't taken a side, just remarked that the victims are the poor, the dis-infrachised, who, because of their station in life, with the cycle of violence and poverty really robbing them of any chance to get out, these are the folks who have the right to cry 'foul!' Maybe you voluteer your spare time to helping them, I don't know, but most people see them as almost sub-human, even when they're giving them a dollar. Yet they're real people, just like you and me. Just as money doesn't care whose pocket it's in, neither does poverty make class or race distinctions. I know you know this, as you're a cop. You see that a ton more than almost anyone here. Maybe your experiences have shaped your view. But please don't think I'm trying to vilify you or your point of view. The proof of equality for all is not in agreeing with or being forced to adopt another's world-view, it's in embracing the differences, the challenges to understanding, the obstacles we overcome as we grow. As individuals, as a community, a country. A species. And since we're all one species, what negatively impacts the individual, impacts us all. So we're all victims, unless we see these incidents as oppotunities to educate, and evolve. Wow. Real new-age. A little self-deprication goes a long way....now, who wants to do the next Gumball Rally??? Anyone?