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I mean wtf are these people doing? Another $410 billion for nothing?

So the banks were trying to "help" these people out by "qualifying" them for loans they could not qualify for and never should have received. Then of course they can't make their payments, they default and go into foreclosure. So they are actually financially worse off then before they bought a home. I say the mortgage brokers, et al responsible for this mess should have to give up all of their possessions to help pay this mess off.

Oh and are these the same people going out committing all of the crimes?

Did I mention I came from a working class family and went to public schools? YEAH- F them all.

Sorry- just tired of having everyone taking money out of my wallet. :eek:

The banks weren't trying to help. They were doing what the CRA and Jimmy Carter created and Bill Clinton mandated. Give loans to people who had no business with them. Since they couldn't do it with conforming loans, the banks created all these other exotic loan products......interest only, negative amortizing, etc etc. They were FORCED to do this.

The democrats and ACORN are responsible for the irresponsible loan sharking that has spawned our current financial woes.

See Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related

and Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63siCHvuGFg

and Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MglYo_wk7E

Listen to these idiot dems saying that there are no problems with Fannie/Freddie and then attack the repubs who are raising concerns. Disgraceful.....
 
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Even in death, I am sure they paid some stupid amount of tax which went to government. It probably bought a missile test, or in the piggy bank for the 18 new helicopters needed by the secret service, or for food stamps so some crystal meth addict could buy munchies, or some such non-sense.

Yeah actually the tax on possessions willed after death is something outrageous, like over 50%. Maybe 60%.
 
HEY JOHN AT MICROSOFT!

Pls note that my posting in post # 18 above quoted the last para of posting 17 by leonphelps11.
 
Yeah actually the tax on possessions willed after death is something outrageous, like over 50%. Maybe 60%.

All the more reason to go out with the last check bouncing.

We are in big trouble folks. I don't think I need to tell anyone here that anyways. After commercial real estate falls apart expect things to get a lot worse and I don't see anything getting better for quite some time. If you haven't done so already it's time to batten down the hatches and be ready for it. If you have the means get ready for the biggest buying spree in recent history. I hope we all make it through it.

well I feel lucky as my net worth has only been reduced by ~40% I have many friends and business acquaintances who have been wiped out or are hanging on by their fingernails waiting for a bail out that isn't coming for the average Joe.

The biggest problem I see are the banks and their inevitable failure. What will replace them. Where would you go to get a loan if 5 minutes from now there wasn't a bank to be found? If you can borrow money right now I would suggest getting it on hand so you can arbitrage later when no one else can get money. Good strong businesses will be looking for capital to get through the tough time. Don't loan them money, buy a percentage of their business.
 
More change you can believe in.... I can't wait until they take over health care and tell me which doctor to go see.

Companies that defrauded the United States and jeopardized American lives received new government work despite rulings designed to stop them from receiving federal contracts, government investigators report.

Payments went to a company whose president tried to sell nuclear bomb parts to North Korea, a company that jeopardized lives on the aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy, and a seller of body armor that the Air Force said was defective.

The companies were on a government database of 70,000 individuals and businesses suspended or barred by various U.S. agencies from receiving government contract work.

The Government Accountability Office blamed some of the mistakes on faulty computer searches by officials who left out commas or periods. But it also said the search engine for the database often failed to identify any of the entries on the exclusion list.


http://www.komonews.com/news/40421852.html
 
What happened to all of those who supported Obama on this site? It seemed obvious to me that this is exactly what was going to happen if he got into office.

It is a shame and I truly feel sorry for my children because I don't think they are going to have the same opportunities that I had.

Drastic cuts have to be made, not spending anyone with a little common sense can see that this is the way to get out of a financial problem.

Good Luck with the next four years we are going to need it.

I am worried he is going to give enough money away to the poor to get enough votes to win another term. A lot of people are short sited and just want something free now and don't want to create something that will allow them to have something for ever.
 
What happened to all of those who supported Obama on this site? It seemed obvious to me that this is exactly what was going to happen if he got into office.

It is a shame and I truly feel sorry for my children because I don't think they are going to have the same opportunities that I had.

Drastic cuts have to be made, not spending anyone with a little common sense can see that this is the way to get out of a financial problem.

Good Luck with the next four years we are going to need it.

I am worried he is going to give enough money away to the poor to get enough votes to win another term. A lot of people are short sited and just want something free now and don't want to create something that will allow them to have something for ever.

Why do yooouuu get to have a Carrera GT?? It's just not fair! I want one. In fact, I like silver so I'll just take yours. :wink::redface:
 
If I lived in the Middle East I would be getting very worried.

Unfortunately, if we survive it, our economy will probably bounce back if there's another world war.

That's about the only thing that will turn this nation and the world around at this point. Obviously, that's going to come at extreme costs to others though :frown:

Dave
 
If I lived in the Middle East I would be getting very worried.

Unfortunately, if we survive it, our economy will probably bounce back if there's another world war.

That's about the only thing that will turn this nation and the world around at this point. Obviously, that's going to come at extreme costs to others though :frown:

Dave

That has been my worry now for a while. Money can be replaced. People can not.
 
If I lived in the Middle East I would be getting very worried.

Unfortunately, if we survive it, our economy will probably bounce back if there's another world war.

That's about the only thing that will turn this nation and the world around at this point. Obviously, that's going to come at extreme costs to others though :frown:

Dave

I wouldn't rule it out. Against whom? I don't know. What would start it? God only knows. But, as I've said before -and this should be your investing mantra for the next few years- volatility creates volatility (and not just in financial markets). For the last 30+ years, the world's pinballs having been fairly dormant. In mid-2007, they started to move. In 2008, they gained momentum. In 2009.... (and now, we've elected a leader that wants to "change" many things, which is the exact opposite of what we need to do in the near term).
 
No one is even discussing the cap and trade program. It's going to be 6-7% of our GDP in new taxes going straight to the government by the end of Obama's term. And this tax is extremely regressive, causing higher utility/energy costs across the board. All in the name of "saving the environment". These people either just don't get it or have other objectives they do not wish to openly share (it's the later). It's the marginal benefit/cost of each unit of pollution that MUST be analyzed, net zero pollution is not possible and idiotic. Every decent resource analyst/environmental economist knows this. This is fact. Imagine what sort of technology and growth could come out of 7% of GDP over a 5-10 year period. I cannot comprehend why this administration is seemingly trying to gut this economy. They are TRYING to get us to repeat the Great Depression.

This is off wiki about the great depression. How familiar does this sound?

"The deflation spiral
US Farm Prices, (1928-35).

The Great Depression was triggered by a sudden, total collapse in the stock market. The stock market turned upward in early 1930, returning to early 1929 levels by April, though still almost 30 percent below the peak of September 1929.[10] Together, government and business actually spent more in the first half of 1930 than in the corresponding period of the previous year. But consumers, many of whom had suffered severe losses in the stock market the previous year, cut back their expenditures by ten percent, and a severe drought ravaged the agricultural heartland of the USA beginning in the summer of 1930.

In early 1930, credit was ample and available at low rates, but people were reluctant to add new debt by borrowing. By May 1930, auto sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931. Conditions were worse in farming areas, where commodity prices plunged, and in mining and logging areas, where unemployment was high and there were few other jobs. The decline in the US economy was the factor that pulled down most other countries at first, then internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts to shore up the economies of individual nations through protectionist policies, such as the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other countries, exacerbated the collapse in global trade. By late in 1930, a steady decline set in which reached bottom by March 1933."


All that needs to be done now is raising taxes on the only consumers left with any buying power (whoops never mind, already did that last week) and to start Smoot-Hawley #2 (whoops, already doing that with autos and it'll get worse). Time to hoard money.
 
No one is even discussing the cap and trade program. It's going to be 6-7% of our GDP in new taxes going straight to the government by the end of Obama's term. And this tax is extremely regressive, causing higher utility/energy costs across the board. All in the name of "saving the environment". These people either just don't get it or have other objectives they do not wish to openly share (it's the later). It's the marginal benefit/cost of each unit of pollution that MUST be analyzed, net zero pollution is not possible and idiotic. Every decent resource analyst/environmental economist knows this. This is fact. Imagine what sort of technology and growth could come out of 7% of GDP over a 5-10 year period. I cannot comprehend why this administration is seemingly trying to gut this economy. They are TRYING to get us to repeat the Great Depression.

This is off wiki about the great depression. How familiar does this sound?

"The deflation spiral
US Farm Prices, (1928-35).

The Great Depression was triggered by a sudden, total collapse in the stock market. The stock market turned upward in early 1930, returning to early 1929 levels by April, though still almost 30 percent below the peak of September 1929.[10] Together, government and business actually spent more in the first half of 1930 than in the corresponding period of the previous year. But consumers, many of whom had suffered severe losses in the stock market the previous year, cut back their expenditures by ten percent, and a severe drought ravaged the agricultural heartland of the USA beginning in the summer of 1930.

In early 1930, credit was ample and available at low rates, but people were reluctant to add new debt by borrowing. By May 1930, auto sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931. Conditions were worse in farming areas, where commodity prices plunged, and in mining and logging areas, where unemployment was high and there were few other jobs. The decline in the US economy was the factor that pulled down most other countries at first, then internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts to shore up the economies of individual nations through protectionist policies, such as the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other countries, exacerbated the collapse in global trade. By late in 1930, a steady decline set in which reached bottom by March 1933."


All that needs to be done now is raising taxes on the only consumers left with any buying power (whoops never mind, already did that last week) and to start Smoot-Hawley #2 (whoops, already doing that with autos and it'll get worse). Time to hoard money.

Add this to it and it becomes pretty eerie

When: 1926
Where: Florida


The amount the market declined from peak to bottom: Land that could be bought for $800,000 could, within a year, be resold for $4 million before crashing back down to pre-boom levels. The prices were so inflated that to buy a condo-style property in 1926, you would've had to pay the same as you would now have to pay for a luxury home in the guard-gated communities in Miami ($4,500,000) - without adjusting for inflation!

Synopsis: In the 1920s, the United States of America was chugging along like the British Empire of the 1700s, and it was only natural that people were beginning to believe such prosperity was infinite. But it wasn't the stock market that was the recipient of a bubble. It was the real estate market.

In 1920, Florida became the popular U.S. destination/residence for people who don't like the cold. The population was growing steadily and housing couldn't match the demand, causing prices to double and triple in some cases, which was not exactly unjustified at this point. But, news of anything doubling and tripling in price always attracts speculators. So, once people began pumping huge amounts of money into the real estate market it took off. Soon everyone in Florida was either a real estate investor or a real estate agent.

Unfortunately, the rules are the same whether you pay too much for a stock or for a piece of land: you have to make that much more to claim a profit. This did happen for awhile, and land prices quadrupled in less than a year. Eventually, however, there were no "greater fools" to buy the disgustingly overpriced land, and prices began to adjust ever so subtly. Speculators realized there was a limit to the boom, and began to sell their properties to solidify their profits while they could.

Then everybody simultaneously saw the writing on the wall, and panic selling ensued. With thousands of sellers and very few buyers, prices came down with a sickening thud, twitched a bit, and then crawled down even lower.


Then right after that

When: October 21, 24 and 29, 1929

Where: USA


The amount the market declined from peak to bottom: A string of terrible days led to a more than 40% drop in the market from the beginning of September 1929 to the end of October 1929. In fact, the market continued to decline until July 1932 when it bottomed out, down nearly 90% from its 1929 highs.

Synopsis: Despite the Florida crash, Americans were as bullish as ever. The stock market was guaranteed to make everyone rich as the first world war had been won, and industrialization was resulting in previously-unimaginable luxuries. It was a good time to be American.

Since the stock market was believed to be a no-risk, no-brain world where everything went up, many people poured all their savings into it without learning about the system or the underlying companies. With the flood of uneducated investors, the market was ripe for some manipulation and swindling. Investment bankers, brokers, traders, and sometimes owners banded together to manipulate stock prices and get out with gains. They did this by subtly acquiring large chunks of stock between them and trading them between each other for slightly more each time. When the public noticed the progression of price on the ticker tape, everyone would buy the stock. So, the market manipulators would then sell off their overpriced shares for a healthy profit. On and on the cycle went as uneducated investors turned a profit by selling the manipulated, over-priced shares to someone who wanted to have a rising stock.

Behavioral finance shows that the less an investor knows, the easier it is for him or her to be swept up in popular opinion (herd mentality). This behavior is a double-edged sword because the ignorant investors are also easily spooked into panic. Both actions, joining and fleeing, have very little basis in the quality of the news or the quality of the market. Instead, the herd follows the cow that runs the fastest, trampling the market.




During the craze before the Great Depression a number of academics, including Roger Babson, were predicting a crash if things didn't “calm the hell down.” Sadly, for every Roger Babson, there were four bull-blinded academics guaranteeing the eternal rapid growth of the American stock market. Although Babson had been predicting the crash for years, the capricious and ignorant investors finally listened. The twelve-year worldwide depression came and ended only with the declaration of war. This stands as the worst financial blow to the USA ever. The crash itself, though large in its own right, was nothing compared to the ensuing graveyard market and devastating depression.
 
I couldn't have reenlisted in the Marine Corps at a better time. Steady paycheck on the 1st and 15th of every month. And with conflict in the middle east, guaranteed job for a while to come, which I don't mind at all, I like the deployments. :wink:

I'm also glad I have no wife or children. I'm 29 years old, and proud of that fact. I've gotten into heated arguments/fights with my parents, specially my dad over me not buying a house. Sure, houses are way cheaper now, and if you have the money/means to buy one, go for it. But I know the economy is gonna take a deeper dive, and I'm sure housing will go even lower, so I'm gonna wait and see.

I also wanna see what all those Obama supporters have to say now with all the crazy things he's doing/planning to do.

I believe we're gonna get to a point where we're gonna have another revolution if things keep going the way they are. Things can only go so far. Better stock up on ammo while you can.
 
Dow down in the 6ks now...I expect to see it in the 3k range within the next 2 years.

Obama is buying our misery 1 trillion dollars at a time.


Good luck everybody..it's going to get very very ugly.
 
I expect to see it in the 3k range within the next 2 years.

In that case, I think this is the chart you were looking for John:


Dow Jones Industrial Average (1920 - 1940 Daily)

djia19201940s.png
 
What happened to all of those who supported Obama on this site? It seemed obvious to me that this is exactly what was going to happen if he got into office.

It is a shame and I truly feel sorry for my children because I don't think they are going to have the same opportunities that I had.

Drastic cuts have to be made, not spending anyone with a little common sense can see that this is the way to get out of a financial problem.

Good Luck with the next four years we are going to need it.

I am worried he is going to give enough money away to the poor to get enough votes to win another term. A lot of people are short sited and just want something free now and don't want to create something that will allow them to have something for ever.
i think there is a lot of truth to the points you raise.

i voted for obama (not a hard supporter but i felt he was the more palatable of the two final choices) and i'm right here watching folks chew their legs off while foaming at the mouth. (no criticism intended, just an observation.)

from where i sit, i see a newly elected president who inherited the biggest shit-storm momentum since the depression. who created the storm? lots of folks from all sorts of backgrounds with many personal / professional / political goals: greed top among them. and now all / many / most americans (and others around the planet) will have to suffer huge consequences.

like most here, i believe it's going to get much, much worse before it gets better. like you, i worry about my children's / grandchildren's future more than ever before... heck, with the upheaval in the market(s) stock and housing, i'm beginning to review my retirement plans, too. i think we were very much headed into this crater regardless of who won the election and to some extent (at least for the initial year or two post-election), the crater would be pretty much the same as it is now. (in case anybody's wondering, i don't like the idea of paying for those who re-fied their inflated-value homes, took the money and walked... i don't like it at all. none of my friends / acquaintances fall in that segment, btw - we're all pretty conservative.)

so i'll side with (and paraphrase) a post steve made last week or the week before (can't remember, sorry): the election's over, let's get back to work.
(and i'll add as i have on several occasions: buckle your seat belts, it's going to get very, very bumpy and i believe we'll all need all of the positive support we can muster.)

seriously.

thx for letting me raise my hand and chime in :)
 
Whatever the answer is I know we all have to work together to keep this country intact. Every single person needs to contribute to the effort and everyone needs to support one decision even if that decision doesn't not benefit them personally but benefits the country as a whole. We need to stay united. We need to have this country to pass along to our children. This is the best place in the world and we have to keep it that way.

I will do whatever I need to in order to help the country. I have this country's back and I will continue to have it's back for the rest of my lifetime. I will invest my resources into this country's future because it is the best place on the planet and I want to pass it on to the people who will be here after I am gone. God Bless America!!
 
Whatever the answer is I know we all have to work together to keep this country intact. Every single person needs to contribute to the effort and everyone needs to support one decision even if that decision doesn't not benefit them personally but benefits the country as a whole. We need to stay united. We need to have this country to pass along to our children. This is the best place in the world and we have to keep it that way.

I will do whatever I need to in order to help the country. I have this country's back and I will continue to have it's back for the rest of my lifetime. I will invest my resources into this country's future because it is the best place on the planet and I want to pass it on to the people who will be here after I am gone. God Bless America!!
just how i feel, steve.
 
Every single person needs to contribute to the effort and everyone needs to support one decision even if that decision doesn't not benefit them personally but benefits the country as a whole.

I disagree. If I am going to buy ice cream, and am trying to get a vote, and all 10 people in the room decide that Vanilla is the way to go because that's what everyone else likes....

What did I accomplish?

Who even needs a vote for that?

I'm sure in guantanamo vanilla sounded fantastic.
 
I disagree. If I am going to buy ice cream, and am trying to get a vote, and all 10 people in the room decide that Vanilla is the way to go because that's what everyone else likes....

What did I accomplish?

Who even needs a vote for that?
well if you didn't vote in the presidential election as noted here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113715&highlight=vote&page=2

and you won't vote for vanilla ice cream, exactly when do you vote? :rolleyes:

not a trick question: are you an american citizen and eligible to vote in american elections?
 
The president's handouts and unscrupulous spending are so widespread that get rich quick schemers are making banner ads in his name. I can't imagine how many hopeless idiots are falling for this crap.

obama.jpg


Ugh...just listen to this....:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkPJq_EYqHo
 
I will do whatever I need to in order to help the country.

Obama is COUNTING on that, Steve. One dollar at a time. I only wish it were a joke. :mad:

Government.png
 
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