I mean wtf are these people doing? Another $410 billion for nothing?

[queenlives]

The president's handouts and unscrupulous spending are so widespread that get rich quick schemers are making banner ads in his name. I can't imagine how many hopeless idiots are falling for this crap.

for a second there i thought you were talking about the last 8 years when "pay what you like" mortgages were the available.

pt barnum was right....

 

[tosugrad]

for a second there i thought you were talking about the last 8 years when "pay what you like" mortgages were the available.

pt barnum was right....

Queen I am going to have to disagree. Bush's direct policy had very little to do with these mortgages.

 

[tosugrad]

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out
of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person
must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody
anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When
half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the
other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the
idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what
they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You
cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005

 

[docjohn]

what worries me as much as this whole "big government" redistribution notion,is the fact that as the economy slows down more in this recesion the amount of dollors infused and now lost/squirled away has increased like 3 fold What I fear is a rebound inflation in say 2010-11

 

[sahtt]

what worries me as much as this whole "big government" redistribution notion,is the fact that as the economy slows down more in this recesion the amount of dollors infused and now lost/squirled away has increased like 3 fold What I fear is a rebound inflation in say 2010-11

Pray for inflation. If inflation is an economic hurricane, deflation is the equivalent of the sun collapsing and forming a super mass black hole. All around the world CPI's are falling, along with asset values of all classes.

 

[SilverStone05]

for a second there i thought you were talking about the last 8 years when "pay what you like" mortgages were the available.

pt barnum was right....

Hal - I disagree. "Pay what you like mortgages" were created by banks who had no choice but to lend to poor folks or folks with bad credit....they were pretty much forced by legislation that the *CLINTON* administration put into motion in 99.

In fact - Bush introduced legislation that combated the irresponsibility of the Clinton legislation and proposed his own *responsible* solutions to fight the problem:

"In 2002, President George W. Bush signed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit Act. Dubbed "Renewing the Dream," the program would give nearly $2.4 billion in tax credits over the next five years to investors and builders who develop affordable single-family housing in distressed areas."

"In 2003, the Bush administration recommended significant regulatory overhaul of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. However, the Democrats opposed that proposal, fearing that tighter regulation could sharply reduce financing for low-income housing, both low and high risk. Under immense lobbying pressure from Fannie Mae in association with Congressional Democrats led by Rep. Barney Frank, the Republican controlled Congress did not introduce any legislation aimed at bringing this proposal into law until 2005."

"On December 16, 2003, President George W. Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act, a new program that provided grants to help home buyers with downpayment and closing costs. The act authorized $200 million dollars per year for the program for fiscal years 2004-2007."

"President Bush also tripled the funding for organizations like Habitat for Humanity that help families help themselves become homeowners through 'sweat equity' and volunteerism in their communities. Substantially increasing, by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government-sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market specifically targeted toward the minority market."

 

[queenlives]

Hal - I disagree. "Pay what you like mortgages" were created by banks who had no choice but to lend to poor folks or folks with bad credit....they were pretty much forced by legislation that the *CLINTON* administration put into motion in 99.

In fact - Bush introduced legislation that combated the irresponsibility of the Clinton legislation and proposed his own *responsible* solutions to fight the problem:

"In 2002, President George W. Bush signed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit Act. Dubbed "Renewing the Dream," the program would give nearly $2.4 billion in tax credits over the next five years to investors and builders who develop affordable single-family housing in distressed areas."

"In 2003, the Bush administration recommended significant regulatory overhaul of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. However, the Democrats opposed that proposal, fearing that tighter regulation could sharply reduce financing for low-income housing, both low and high risk. Under immense lobbying pressure from Fannie Mae in association with Congressional Democrats led by Rep. Barney Frank, the Republican controlled Congress did not introduce any legislation aimed at bringing this proposal into law until 2005."

"On December 16, 2003, President George W. Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act, a new program that provided grants to help home buyers with downpayment and closing costs. The act authorized $200 million dollars per year for the program for fiscal years 2004-2007."

"President Bush also tripled the funding for organizations like Habitat for Humanity that help families help themselves become homeowners through 'sweat equity' and volunteerism in their communities. Substantially increasing, by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government-sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market specifically targeted toward the minority market."

thx for the info, i found some of it interesting & relevant, not sure about others, but... thx.

so you're saying the bush administration had nothing to do with the mortgage / finance debacle we're in now? nothing? greenspan. sec. nothing at all. zip. bupkis?

i accept that i may be ignorant on some of the finer points, but i don't / can't / won't ever believe it was all clinton and carter's fault and that had we just let ron / bush / bush / rush run it all we'd be fine. (i voted for reagan, bush, bush (1x only) so i'm not much of a party line guy.)

if people are interested in responding in a discussion manner, i'm listening; if folks are incapable of discussing a topic, i'm out - i choose doing my sock drawer over party line rants.

 

[SilverStone05]

thx for the info, i found some of it interesting & relevant, not sure about others, but... thx.

so you're saying the bush administration had nothing to do with the mortgage / finance debacle we're in now? nothing? greenspan. sec. nothing at all. zip. bupkis?

i accept that i may be ignorant on some of the finer points, but i don't / can't / won't ever believe it was all clinton and carter's fault and that had we just let ron / bush / bush / rush run it all we'd be fine. (i voted for reagan, bush, bush (1x only) so i'm not much of a party line guy.)

if people are interested in responding in a discussion manner, i'm listening; if folks are incapable of discussing a topic, i'm out - i choose doing my sock drawer over party line rants.

I can't speak for specific individuals comprising the Bush administration...they are not so closely scrutinized as the man himself. I can only tell you that Bush (whether he knew it or not) did his duty to address the reckless irresponsibility in the mortgage industry created by the conflicts of interest induced by additions to the CRA.

And i'm sorry if you found my post offensive...but I don't see how stating facts in a diplomatic manner would qualify as "incapable of discussion" or as a "rant".

In addition: If you are implying that I am a sucker via your PT Barnum reference above...i'd like to remind you that I *did not* vote for the current president that is in office.

 

[docjohn]

So for all the economics majors here ,which is the lessor of the two extremes to an economy as large as ours,prolonged recession of inflation.To yours truley on the surface it would seem that folks choosing not to spend 2$ for a loaf of bread is better than having to choose which 10$ loaf to buy?

 

[queenlives]

I can't speak for specific individuals comprising the Bush administration...they are not so closely scrutinized as the man himself. I can only tell you that Bush (whether he knew it or not) did his duty to address the reckless irresponsibility in the mortgage industry created by the conflicts of interest induced by additions to the CRA.

And i'm sorry if you found my post offensive...but I don't see how stating facts in a diplomatic manner would qualify as "incapable of discussion" or as a "rant".

In addition: If you are implying that I am a sucker via your PT Barnum reference above...i'd like to remind you that I *did not* vote for the current president that is in office.

first, let me clarify if i communicated i thought your post was offensive or a rant... not at all. (had that been the case, it's likely i wouldn't have responded at all.).

as for the barnum-thing / who voted for whom, i think 7 weeks in to a presidency is too soon to say whether how the current administration's entire approach will work, so i'll hold my judgement for a bit longer.

 

[tosugrad]

i think 7 weeks in to a presidency is too soon to say whether how the current administration's entire approach will work,

Well, the markets sure are loving his first 43 days. DOW sheds 25% is certainly a good start.

 

[Mike-san]

Whether or not President Bush is responsible for the mess were in now, he was sure crowing like a rooster about the increase in home ownership during the housing boom.

 

[queenlives]

Well, the markets sure are loving his first 43 days. DOW sheds 25% is certainly a good start.

and... the 50% drop / bottom that was hit in nov (or was it oct), that was obama's fault, too?

i get all the political positioning / chuffing that people seem compelled to vomit up on a never-ending basis, but the reality is, few things are the result of one person's actions - the knee bone is connected to the thigh bone - and in the end, time takes time.... (or is it, "the love you make is equal to the love you take"

 

[tosugrad]

and... the 50% drop / bottom that was hit in nov (or was it oct), that was obama's fault, too?

i get all the political positioning / chuffing that people seem compelled to vomit up on a never-ending basis, but the reality is, few things are the result of one person's actions - the knee bone is connected to the thigh bone - and in the end, time takes time.... (or is it, "the love you make is equal to the love you take"

Well, I agree, for the most part. However, Obama HIMSELF has set up more spending and taxing in his first 43 days than any President in history. Certainly that MIGHT be affecting the markets

 

[SilverStone05]

Well, I agree, for the most part. However, Obama HIMSELF has set up more spending and taxing in his first 43 days than any President in history. Certainly that MIGHT be affecting the markets

Every time that man speaks I just watch the DOW plummet in real time.

 

[docjohn]

So for all the economics majors here ,which is the lessor of the two extremes to an economy as large as ours,prolonged recession of inflation.To yours truley on the surface it would seem that folks choosing not to spend 2$ for a loaf of bread is better than having to choose which 10$ loaf to buy?

Are you all going to blow off my ? or have the experts not joined this thread yet:frown:

 

[SilverStone05]

Are you all going to blow off my ? or have the experts not joined this thread yet:frown:

I think you are going to have to proofread the question and transform it into something intelligible. They didn't teach us jibberish in B-school.....perhaps only in med school? :smile:

 

[docjohn]

Ok, My question certainly makes sense to me,I'll reword it for you.what is worse for a large economy such as ours recession or inflation? and why.:smile:

 

[SilverStone05]

Ok, My question certainly makes sense to me,I'll reword it for you.what is worse for a large economy such as ours recession or inflation? and why.:smile:

Inflation. Inflation permanently reduces purchasing power.

In economic cycles, recessions are normal and can be overcome.

It has been the Federal Reserve's primary goal to fight inflation.

 

[zahntech]

as for the barnum-thing / who voted for whom, i think 7 weeks in to a presidency is too soon to say whether how the current administration's entire approach will work, so i'll hold my judgement for a bit longer.

History has shown over and over again that when the government taxes more and spends more there is a direct negative effect on the free market economy.

In these 7 weeks he and his buddys on the hill have taken a bad situation and created a perfect storm for a complete depression/collapse.

I have no doubt that in the next 5 years you will see this nation devolve into a third world like environment where you cannot let your children go outside without worry that they will be kidnapped and held for ransom.


I hope not but the signs are on the wall..:frown:

 

[docjohn]

Inflation. Inflation permanently reduces purchasing power.

In economic cycles, recessions are normal and can be overcome.

It has been the Federal Reserve's primary goal to fight inflation.

thank you ,that supports my fear that we should be more worried about a rebound inflation with a sudden influx of dollars when the credit markets/savers start to spend.

 

[queenlives]

However, Obama HIMSELF has set up more spending and taxing in his first 43 days than any President in history. Certainly that MIGHT be affecting the markets

of course.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

I have no doubt that in the next 5 years you will see this nation devolve into a third world like environment where you cannot let your children go outside without worry that they will be kidnapped and held for ransom.

I hope not but the signs are on the wall..:frown:

I hear you John. I don't even let my dog outside anymore.

Sad times.

:frown:

 

[queenlives]

I hear you John. I don't even let my dog outside anymore.

Sad times.

:frown:

speaking of that, isn't it time to start another gun thread?

 

[zahntech]

Well the purpose of "the right to keep and bare arms" was to ensure that when the Government became Tyrannical the citizens could defend themselves from it.

So it would seem that stocking up on ammo would be a good idea.