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Is Audi a luxury brand?

Is Audi a luxury brand?

  • It's nice, but no

    Votes: 9 11.7%
  • yes, it's in the same league

    Votes: 68 88.3%

  • Total voters
    77
I have not heard good thing about audi reliability. Seems they are great cars, but have issues.


Road and track just did a long term review of an Audi s4 (which I almost bought) and they gave it a 1/5 for reliability. the entire transmission had to be replaced at 16k miles and it left them stranded at 22k miles when a thermostat failed and drained all the Coolant from the motor.

They even mention at the end they could trade it in and get a brand new Acura TL which has been flawless for 31k miles.
 
Road and track just did a long term review of an Audi s4 (which I almost bought) and they gave it a 1/5 for reliability. the entire transmission had to be replaced at 16k miles and it left them stranded at 22k miles when a thermostat failed and drained all the Coolant from the motor.

I have read of a few problems with the new S4 DSG trans as well. But any time you have a newly designed car, with a newly designed trans you run the risk of getting the bugs out. Mildly reminiscent of snap ring failure, but we don't count that against the NSX, do we?
 
the new generation of Audi cars (2009+) or so have a much different feel across their entire lineup than their lineup 5-7 years ago. Its like they reinvented themselves in the marketplace. Materials looks and feel different, drive different, etc... Does that mean the reliability will be greatly improved over the generation 5+ years ago? I would sure hope so but given some time now they still seem kind of finicky. Anyone have a new-ish Audi would like to share their ownership costs?

edit, oh yea, Audi is defiantly a luxury brand, regardless of how we individuals like/dislike them. VW/Audi is a corporate power house, something Honda & Toyota were back in the late 80s-mid 90s.
 
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When I first read the title I thought the OP made a typo and meant to say Acura instead of Audi. Audi without a doubt is "premium" luxury, Acura on the other hand is entry level luxury with no rwd models bring offered with no v8+ engine sized offerings. You can also clearly tell which Honda platforms they are shared with. With brands like Lexus, the is, gs, ls, etc are all unique to lexus, does not share a thing with the lower usdm toyota models.
 
Apparently you have some Merc loyalty, however you missed the point. My point wasn't to say that Mercedes wasn't a luxury car.

Audi was the first to use all aluminum construction in a luxury car.

Audi was the first to make AWD available on all models. A system that is still the best in the business and has remained largely unchanged in 30 years.

The LED headlights have been used for a few years now. The A8, A6, and A4 models. I'm not sure how someone can live in a big city and not notice these, they are very distinctive at night.

Of course none of this defines a luxury car. But if you believe Audi doesn't make luxury cars, you either haven't been in an Audi for 20 years or you have a very extreme bias.

Explain to me how the Audi AWD system is the "best" when there are the SH AWD from Honda/Acura and Subarus (which has a higher % of their AWD cars still on the road than Audi).

I can notice the LED DRL, parking and signals. But I've yet to tell the difference between the HID and LED headlights. And the only way that I can tell is if they lit up at the moment.
 
Explain to me how the Audi AWD system is the "best" when there are the SH AWD from Honda/Acura and Subarus (which has a higher % of their AWD cars still on the road than Audi).

I will be referring to the Quattro system here as the traditional one found in the most Audi models, not the Haldex-TT and VC R8 models.

The original Quattro system was superior to its contemporary rivals because it used 3 LSD Torsen differentials along with locking center and rear diffs. This allowed pro-active instead of re-active transfer of power, as well as a greater transfer of power between each axle/shaft. This setup proved to be very reliable.

There were some notable drawbacks, it was heavy, it was expensive, and it forced the engine to be mounted way ahead of the front axle, placing much weight on the front axle and adversely affecting handling.

Speaking in recent years terms:

Subaru and SH AWD use a method that sends the majority of power to the FW, and then, once a wheel begins to slip and the center diff detects it, can send a portion to the rears, usually up to 40 or 50%. The system is effective no doubt, and is cheap, reliable, and compact making it easy to package and sell. However, it maintains the mannerisms of a FWD car at the limit.

Most regular Quattro models feature a 50/50 f/r split with some of the sport models in recent years coming with 40/60 split (to help provide less understeer.) This provides a neutral feel and allows for up to 85% of power to be switched to either axle(may vary slightly by year/make). It also transfers the power before slip is detected.

On the other end of the spectrum is X-drive and 4matic which are RWD-based and then provide FWD assist when slip is detected. These observe the driving dynamics of a RWD car for the most part.

Now, under normal ideal driving conditions, there is not much difference between competing systems. In fact, most people driving regularly probably couldn't tell.

(The following is my opinion)

However, when driven in slippery conditions like ice/snow (which is the reason most people will be buying AWD sedans) it is very easy to tell them apart. The viscous coupling and FWD-based system's power transfer is jerky and non-linear, hard to hold at the limit, and unpredictable, which is an inherent trait of the system. When cornering, the vehicle will understeer slightly, and then as the center diff reacts will abruptly oversteer.

The Quattro system, being entirely mechanical, provides a very linear, very predictable power transfer to the wheel with the most grip. The result is an easy to control car once conditions are slippery (and its the most fun as well).

Of course, for straight line traction in deep snow, all other things being equal, the system with the best ability to transfer power will be superior (Quattro). This is really only in theory, though, as its very hard to replicate.

(Note - I have not driven every single car with AWD, and every year they seem to get better)
 
......SH AWD use a method that sends the majority of power to the FW, and then, once a wheel begins to slip and the center diff detects it, can send a portion to the rears, usually up to 40 or 50%. The system is effective no doubt, and is cheap, reliable, and compact making it easy to package and sell. However, it maintains the mannerisms of a FWD car at the limit.......


SH-AWD allows torque to be continuously distributed between front and rear wheels from 70% front/30% rear to 30% front/70% rear, with up to 100% of the rear power being distributed to the outer left or right wheel to assist in cornering and dramatically reducing understeer. For example, in straight line full throttle acceleration, the RL is capable of distributing 40% of torque to the rear wheels and 60% to the front wheels. In a hard turn, of percentage of power distributed to the rear wheels, up to 100% of the rear wheel power can be distributed to the single, outer rear wheel. This action will push the rear around the corner, and helping with steering, reducing understeer and keeping the car balanced and controlled. The effect can be likened to steering in a row boat where applying more power to one oar can turn the boat. that provides cornering performance that responds faithfully to driver input, and outstanding vehicle stability. A world's first, the SH-AWD system combines front-rear torque distribution control with independently regulated torque distribution to the left and right rear wheels to freely distribute the optimum amount of torque to all four wheels in accordance with driving conditions.

SH-AWD technology is deeply integrated with other systems and sensors implemented in Acura vehicles including:

3 or 4 channel (model dependent) Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
4 channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Throttle control system
Yaw Angle Sensor
Speed sensor
Steering Angle sensor
Lateral G-Force sensor
These systems and sensors all work together to enhance vehicle handling, and safety.
 
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SH-AWD allows torque to be continuously distributed between front and rear wheels from 70% front/30% rear to 30% front/70% rear, with up to 100% of the rear power being distributed to the outer left or ...

Right, pretty much what I said, still does not equal Audi in theory nor practice.
 
I'm adding the details that you left out....

For Acura, but not for Audi.....coincidence?

Oh, and all this...

SH-AWD technology is deeply integrated with other systems and sensors implemented in Acura vehicles including:

3 or 4 channel (model dependent) Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
4 channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Throttle control system
Yaw Angle Sensor
Speed sensor
Steering Angle sensor
Lateral G-Force sensor
These systems and sensors all work together to enhance vehicle handling, and safety.

Could be said for any AWD car on the market.
 
From my snow driving experience (I love skiing), in some situations, Subaru AWD feels better than Audi Quattro. For example, right turn into a bit steep driveway, rear driver side wheel will lose grip for a short moment on my old A4 3.0 Quattro.
 
From my snow driving experience (I love skiing), in some situations, Subaru AWD feels better than Audi Quattro. For example, right turn into a bit steep driveway, rear driver side wheel will lose grip for a short moment on my old A4 3.0 Quattro.

years ago I drove a turbo'd v6 S4. The car had understeer at the limits. Felt more like a FWD car to me regardless of the power distribution.....

Not all the AWD cars has Yaw-Control right?

I'm under the impression that you are correct here since it seems that the other AWD are not as integrated as the Honda/Acura version.

I would never bank on a European car in the snow. The thoughts of something failing and I'm now stuck in the snow with a freak snow storm looming with family in the car is a scary thought.
 
Not all the AWD cars has Yaw-Control right?

AWD goes back a while AWD technology is always changing I would say MOST cars today have it. The Audi is so incredibly simple to drive in the snow. Its point and shoot. Keep your foot in it, and don't hit the breaks. The AWD is smooth as butter and hands down the best.
 
Just some clarification here. Audi dates back to 1909, and introduced their first car in 1910. Introduced in 1980, Quattro was the first production awd in a car.

.

And for about ten years before that they were known as Horch.

Audi makes a good car, Mercedes makes a world class car.
 
Just some clarification here. Audi dates back to 1909, and introduced their first car in 1910. Introduced in 1980, Quattro was the first production awd in a car.

Better get your facts straight.... Britain's Jensen FF peceded the successful Audi Quattro by many years with the worlds first non off road four wheel drive production car.
 
Auto Union, DKW, front wheel drive and they now share their AWD platform with a former tractor company (Lambo).

I thought most of us here are supposed to be so called "car guys". If that's the case, what is all this discussion about reliability on every other post?

I have always felt that worrying about reliability, gas mileage and AAA should be left to those who do not understand cars. Am I missing something here? :confused:
 
From my snow driving experience (I love skiing), in some situations, Subaru AWD feels better than Audi Quattro. For example, right turn into a bit steep driveway, rear driver side wheel will lose grip for a short moment on my old A4 3.0 Quattro.

Opinions may vary. My analysis was just in my experience. Its tricky to compare given different tires and road conditions.

years ago I drove a turbo'd v6 S4. The car had understeer at the limits. Felt more like a FWD car to me regardless of the power distribution.....

Yes. But that is a result of the engine placement, not a result of the power distribution. Although, the competitive systems will result in a similar feeling to an even more severe degree.


Not all the AWD cars has Yaw-Control right?

While I haven't researched every single thing about every single system out there, the majority do have Yaw-inputs, including Audi. In reality though, i've never heard someone debate between two cars and then decide they liked one more because of the yaw-inclusive drivetrain.

U gave enough for the Audi.... no?

In your opinion, I suppose. But its clear you want the Acura system to appear superior, regardless of if it actually is, so you listed features it has, while completely leaving out that the other system in question features the same thing.

Now granted, I am a little biased as well, however I make an attempt to be subjective and base my opinions off of as much real-world applications as I can.
 
And for about ten years before that they were known as Horch.

Audi makes a good car, Mercedes makes a world class car.

No doubt MB is king, but Audi does provide a nice alternative.


Better get your facts straight.... Britain's Jensen FF peceded the successful Audi Quattro by many years with the worlds first non off road four wheel drive production car.

I better get my facts straight? Or what? LOL, like you are threatening me or something. Easy there tiger, 4WD is not AWD.
 
..... But its clear you want the Acura system to appear superior...Now granted, I am a little biased as well, however I make an attempt to be subjective and base my opinions off of as much real-world applications as I can.


Funny. Earlier you mentioned that I "have some Merc loyalty".

"Little" biased as well? if you say so.......
 
I better get my facts straight? Or what? LOL, like you are threatening me or something. Easy there tiger, 4WD is not AWD.

There was no intent to be threatening as you put it, merely stating that the first production all wheel drive car wasn't Audi. All car enthusiasts well know that 40 years later AWD and 4WD terminology mean different things due to the advent of computer technology and specialty electronics in automotive engineering, but it all started out as the same thing - four wheel drive - of which Audi was no where near being the first. :wink:
 
All car enthusiasts well know that 40 years later AWD and 4WD terminology mean different things due to the advent of computer technology and specialty electronics in automotive engineering, but it all started out as the same thing - four wheel drive - of which Audi was no where near being the first. :wink:

Fair enough. I do not know how the 4WD/AWD wording started, but I do know the differences have nothing to do with electronics. AWD lacks the slow speed, low range features found on 4WD systems, which were all mechanical. While press and marketing may have confused the two, or they may not have had a specific way to market it yet, I am pretty sure engineers made the differentiation. Maybe Quattro was the start of the AWD nomenclature.
 
Fair enough. I do not know how the 4WD/AWD wording started, but I do know the differences have nothing to do with electronics. AWD lacks the slow speed, low range features found on 4WD systems, which were all mechanical. While press and marketing may have confused the two, or they may not have had a specific way to market it yet, I am pretty sure engineers made the differentiation. Maybe Quattro was the start of the AWD nomenclature.

My understanding between 4WD and AWD is that AWD u can drive it on any surface at any time.

4WD isn't for dry surfaces or u may damage the drivetrain.
 
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