Dave are you saying this as a joke? because I am sure that it most certainly is making a real difference. You must be close to 100 MPH on those straights if not more? that wings adds a TON of drag. I don't think you can take it off and beat the F430 down the straight but I bet it will definitely help.
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Love Fab Vs Ctsc
- Thread starter ChitownNSX
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Dave are you saying this as a joke? because I am sure that it most certainly is making a real difference. You must be close to 100 MPH on those straights if not more? that wings adds a TON of drag. I don't think you can take it off and beat the F430 down the straight but I bet it will definitely help.
wow, your comments about the high-boost now being 50-60 HP are making me feel way outta touch with the nsx world. :frown:
I am intersted to see the results of a 350rwhp NSX turbo. What would the pricepoint be on something like that? Surely not the same as the 433rwhp model.
I would think a 350rwhp NSX with say 300TQ @ 2500RPM would be fun as hell on the street and be about the safest FI option around.
I am intersted to see the results of a 350rwhp NSX turbo. What would the pricepoint be on something like that? Surely not the same as the 433rwhp model.
I would think a 350rwhp NSX with say 300TQ @ 2500RPM would be fun as hell on the street and be about the safest FI option around.
First of all I don't understand how you are comparing a Roots-type supercharger like the Comptech Autorotor and a Centrifugal type like the BBSC. They have completely different behaviors and power bands. I have been in both and they don't feel the same either.
I have driven/worked/dynoed all of the above, on NSX's and other cars. Roots type has little kick down low, but falls off up top. Centrifugal has no low end and starts pulling a little up top. These things we all know, and understand that it's the torque you are feeling. But if you look at the dyno graphs of most/all belt driven superchargers, take a look at the HP line(notice I do not say "curve"). It is a straight line basically, and that "peak" HP # is at redline. How is that an actual representation of actual usable power?
Second, I have a real hard time understanding this statement:
Peak numbers on superchargers are a bit of a farse. It achieves those numbers for all of a split second before you have to shift and fall into the usable(much lower) part of your power graph.
When I read this I thought you were talking about an oversized turbo. Are we looking at the same graphs?Doesn't what you are describing depend on gearing? Not really. If anything, it is the turbo that is peaky, that you have to wait for, and therefore you have "lost" your usable power band. Not if properly sized. This is what happens with every shift in a turbocharged car. Again, not if properly sized, and none of my cars do this. I took the 5 speed out of my Supra and installed a 4 speed auto. So you had a NA-T? With the exact same car the car ran much faster 1/4 mile times, as there was no loss of boost between shifts. Yes, that is generally because you can launch harder, shift quicker(and no mis shifts), put the power down much smoother, and have a torque converter working like crazy. Also, if you are falling out of boost, you need cams/valve springs/retainers and a proper standalone ECU to raise your rev limit. If the car is built right, you do not need(or should not) drop out of boost on turbo cars.
I am not doubting what you are saying with that BBSC installation, but I think the reason you are feeling what you are describing is simply a difference in torque. Nothing else. Kinda, it is the torque difference, but it is also the power curve as well.
To each their own, but after all my FI'd cars I think the NSX in particular is at its best matched with a roots type supercharger and/or stroker kits. I have never been in Kip's car but I would be willing to bet my bank account that of all the kits available, his would easily be my favorite. This is not to take anything away from a good company like Lovefab, or all the hard work Cody puts in. I am sure his kits are quite usable and quite impressive, and I would enjoy it thoroughly if I had one. I am just saying if money was no object and I wanted to do what fits the NSX the best, I would do exactly what Shad did with Kip's car.
To each their own, and maybe that is the feel you like. I have no problem with that, but the turbo cars undoubtedly have a larger/higher powerband(HP, and the torque numbers/curves aren't shabby either). If you want torque, the 61mm turbo Cody plans to use should give a very nice/high torque curve. But with the 67mm I have used, the NSX feels absolutely perfect. It is an absolute dream, and feels like the supercar it should have been.
I'm assuming the 350rwhp is the same kit, just with a smaller turbo. So the price point would be the same. Just a guess though.
I know it is making a difference, just how much Im not sure. But Im not close to 100mph. Im close to 150mph!!! This is Mosport man, not some girly track! Video below!!!
The F430s and the Z06s pull away after 120.
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Wow, you need some more power! :biggrin:
My NSX on a "mild" street tune of about 550whp would peg 5th gear in about 22 seconds from 0. Wish I would've taken a video of that, it sure was a trip seeing the Speedo wrapped to 190mph...
Great driving reguardless!!!
My NSX on a "mild" street tune of about 550whp would peg 5th gear in about 22 seconds from 0. Wish I would've taken a video of that, it sure was a trip seeing the Speedo wrapped to 190mph...
Great driving reguardless!!!
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noob alert: from what im reading on this topic here, from just the kit alone, it comes setup to run 8psi (safely), does that kit include lower compression pistons and proper rods to handle the hp/heat/compression?
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The LoveFab Budget system consists of the following parts:
- Cantrell Concepts headers;
- LoveFab Secondaries;
- LoveFab WAIC system including all water pumping components;
- LoveFab charge piping, couplers, and clamps;
- LoveFab exhaust system;
- TiAL 44mm wastegate and the 50mm blow off valve;
- Precision Journal bearing T4 turbo of customers choice (we can size according to the customer’s goals);
- Oil feed and return lines;
- RC 550cc injectors with adapter harness for a non-intrusive installation;
- Walbro 255lph fuel pump;
- AEM FIC piggyback controller wired into a non-intrusive adapter harness;
- All necessary hardware and fittings for a clean and proper installation.
I guess it doesnt come with a water intercooler?
- Cantrell Concepts headers;
- LoveFab Secondaries;
- LoveFab WAIC system including all water pumping components;
- LoveFab charge piping, couplers, and clamps;
- LoveFab exhaust system;
- TiAL 44mm wastegate and the 50mm blow off valve;
- Precision Journal bearing T4 turbo of customers choice (we can size according to the customer’s goals);
- Oil feed and return lines;
- RC 550cc injectors with adapter harness for a non-intrusive installation;
- Walbro 255lph fuel pump;
- AEM FIC piggyback controller wired into a non-intrusive adapter harness;
- All necessary hardware and fittings for a clean and proper installation.
I guess it doesnt come with a water intercooler?
This has been somewhat asked/alluded, but I am weary to accept thee claim that stock internals will handle a hp increase of over 60 percent and have comparable levels of reliability and longevity of a sc at 350 rwhp. Convential thinking is 400 rwhp on stock internals. Sc's have gone for tens of thousands of miles. Honestly, only time an miles will tell. If it is comparable to sc in longevity, this is great news for the NSX. This is nearly 10 percent more rwhp than something like the f430 (400 rwhpsh)
It's been said over and over mostly by me, but Boost is Boost
regardless of SC or Turbo. There are too many variables to detemine longevity to a motor after FI,but I will say one of the biggest problem in engine longevity are the loose nuts :biggrin: behind the wheels.
Armando
So how many PSI is required to hit 350rwhp with a turbo vs SC?
Would venture a guess @ 6-7. I'm at 5K ft, so stock output was only 221 rwhp. After GT35R67 turbo, air/water IC and methanol injection - the car put down 400 rwhp @ 8lbs.
Depends on type of supercharger and really depends on turbo sizing...
Agreed. Pure guess based on previous car - 350Z with ProCharger w/9-10lb pulley that produced 7.8 lbs and put out 375+/-whp.
How many variables would you like me to inject into the question?
IAT's , motor health, and as others have said turbo and supercharger size.
Armando
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I've been watching video clips of turbo nsx against other cars and all I have to say is Turbo FTW! comparing a light weight nsx turbo against a TT Supra with the same hp, the nsw blows the supra away.
Yes but you must understand that the videos that you are watching on YouTube and other sites are that of NSXes which have built motors. So, you better add another $5000-$7000 to the price of the turbo kit.
So, for a starting price of $20,000 for the engine build and turbo kit, yeah it better keep up with some of the BPU+++ single turbo supras.
Both ruin the balance of the NSX
Says the guy with a rotory PL510.
(Love the car BTW, I have 3 510s myself)Agreed! I prefer turbo, but they generally take more skill to drive at the limits.
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$15k for the lovefab turbo kit + installation!! thats some $$$ but i guess if you can afford an NSX i guess the extra $15k shouldn't be that much of a problem. The only problem i see is that like me, who lives in Wisconsin, its so far from the shop . How long does it take to instal the kit?
. How long does it take to instal the kit?
That's just for the parts, still have to have everything machined and assembled, I estimate $10K for a starting point build(baby build like mine)(forged pistons, stock bearings, rods, over bored, cams, springs, valve, oil system. Closer to $20K for a CT style, bigger bearing, stroked, bored, closed decked, valves, etc like Kip and Igor are running.
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That just depends are where you live. I happen to have an engine builder in my area that Barn Man uses who can get the job done (using stock bearings and rods) for close to $7000. Obviously stroked, bored, etc will be much more.
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