NSX-R modifications & future values

[stuntman]

Horst is a magazine editor, not a pro. Difference in driver and weather condition (let alone the 7:56 was done by Honda with spare tires and a support team) easily explains the 13 sec difference. This is another (major) reason why to take these performance measuring sticks with a grain of salt since driver experience level can vary drastically between two drivers.

If a magazine test says car A is 2.3 seconds faster than car B with a journalist driving, is that gospel? Or if a pro drives both and car B is 0.3 seconds faster than A, does that turn your world upside down? What if on brand new tires, car B was now 1.0 seconds faster than car A on new tires? -the variables will never end and the results can be drastically different. So what are you trying to accomplish? (General question).

 

[docjohn]

lol Billy you are already spinning around in the vortex........But I applaud your discipline....like any pro racer you have tremendous will.....

 

[stuntman]

Thanks.. The more I think about it and am in the middle of it, magazine competitions and lap times (especially done by journalists) are not much more than something to argue over.

Thinking philisophically: If the reader is not as good of a driver as the journalist, what does that mean other than bragging rights over his friend with a slower car. What does it mean if a pro can drive a fast but difficult car faster than an easier to drive car, but the journalist is faster in the easy to drive car?

What's relevant? Outright capability and speed? Attainability of those limits? Subjective feel well below the limits? I'm not sure what the answer is...

Sorry for the OT post.

 

[Patricio]

Its like RennlistPrime.com over here all of a sudden.




looks like docjohn has put the popcorn in the microwave and taken a seat.

 

[nsxvtecvtec]

Every OP's post is way too lengthy and analytical. LOL

some people need to stop watching those best motoring/hot version videos which NSX-R can overtake Ferrari/lambo/Porsche in each corner. they did a good job of making their videos so good.

 

[JD Cross]

See the pic this was few months ago about was around 2530 (scale works in 20lb increments) I double checked at another scale at that time.
I have done more mods since then. and shows the full interior.
billy was in the car two weeks ago and can verify its full interior all glass and A/C ect.
I may have broke under 2500 by now by my calculations weighing every single item that has come off the car since last weight.
ill stop by the scale again in a few days, its not far from home. see if i can get a 2500 slip that would mean its 2499 or better Also will be corner balancing soon but am waiting to finish few more weight reduction items and make final decision, on turbo, J35, NA2 engine swap, or Build the 3.0, I really cant decide... thus my drive to keep reducing weight

I notice you're using a highway truck scale
I believe they gain accuracy as weight increases toward normal highway truck weights.
Are you sure you are getting an accurate measure when you weigh so little compared to a highway truck axle weight of 15,000-20,000 lbs.
A 1% error could be in the 200 lb range.
You could be 200-400 lbs heavier than you think.

 

[Patricio]

I notice you're using a highway truck scale
I believe they gain accuracy as weight increases toward normal highway truck weights.
Are you sure you are getting an accurate measure when you weigh so little compared to a highway truck axle weight of 15,000-20,000 lbs.
A 1% error could be in the 200 lb range.
You could be 200-400 lbs heavier than you think.

200-400lbs heavier....
ok...lol...
1% is 25lbs
jeasus himself could put information in balck & white on this forum and some people would still say something like this....

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

You may need to be corner balanced. Really truck scales I'd think could be slightly off. Not sure on percentage but if you want it down to the pound corner balance.

Btw I didn't read the full thread so maybe you have been. Tiago likes to type to much :biggrin:

 

[docjohn]

I actually enjoy enthusiasm esp related to the nsx and performance........I miss Dave turbo2go because he was a similar prolific poster who questioned everything and in the ensuing responses there was good reading as there is here and elsewhere.I love the fact that we have very smart folks who bother to educate and give real world feedback ...........oops popcorn kernel got stuck between my teeth....:wink:

 

[jwmelvin]

200-400lbs heavier....
ok...lol...
1% is 25lbs
jeasus himself could put information in balck & white on this forum and some people would still say something like this....

I believe JD's point was that if the scale is accurate to 1% of full scale, which doesn't strike me as beyond the realm of what is likely, then the error could be 200-400 lbs. Not all scales will give you a result accurate to 1% of the indicated value.

 

[Patricio]

all I can say is I will provide another scale and some corner balance scales soon.
until then look up the law governing certified scales

companies use these scales to measure and charge for materials by the pound, if they were off by 200-400 lbs lots of corporations would be loosing thousands of dollars every day.

It is known truck scales are accurate within 12.5 to 20 lbs at low weights (3000lbs) and in heavier wights they are accurate within 40lbs..

But on prime any thing can, and will, be doubted.

here's my list... I've measured almost every item including/especially the small stuff.

<a href="http://s172.photobucket.com/user/tiago3/media/NSX%20weight%20reduction%20oct%202015.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/tiago3/NSX%20weight%20reduction%20oct%202015.png" border="0" alt=" photo NSX weight reduction oct 2015.png"/></a>

 

[The Kid]

I miss Dave turbo2go because he was a similar prolific poster who questioned everything and in the ensuing responses there was good reading as there is here and elsewhere.

Need a "where are they now thread"!

 

[Patricio]

I actually enjoy enthusiasm esp related to the nsx and performance........I miss Dave turbo2go because he was a similar prolific poster who questioned everything and in the ensuing responses there was good reading as there is here and elsewhere.I love the fact that we have very smart folks who bother to educate and give real world feedback ...........oops popcorn kernel got stuck between my teeth....:wink:

Coincidently... after a 3-4 year hiatus of not posting and just lurking untill recently after I bought turbo2go's CTSC did i start posting on prime again... maybe Dave sent me his nsxprime addiction in the box.

 

[Patricio]

You may need to be corner balanced. Really truck scales I'd think could be slightly off. Not sure on percentage but if you want it down to the pound corner balance.

Btw I didn't read the full thread so maybe you have been. Tiago likes to type to much :biggrin:

yes i need a corner balance..

yeah I know their off..... by around 20lbs to 40lbs depending on wieght. its not a variable its a industry standard... .. you know me I owned large construction machinery, and 72,000 lbs triaxle dumptrucks, i used those scales regularly before and after being loaded to buy and sell material by the pound or ton. both in dump trucks and in pickup trucks.... being off by 200-400 lbs is completely off the chart insane. I would have lost thousands of dollars in a just couple loads.

The way certified truck scales work is they measure to 20-40 lbs increments and have to test accurate within their measuring increments. cars use them when towing small trailers to check for highway safety, being off by 200lbs would put a old man towing his harley with an old Lincoln towncar into a ditch

I type allot in attempts to not get misunderstood, and I like allot to receive allot of info.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[white98sh]

wxxljbnnhyyttu

 

[JD Cross]

200-400lbs heavier....
ok...lol...
1% is 25lbs
jeasus himself could put information in balck & white on this forum and some people would still say something like this....

No need to overreact.
You're striving to make the lightest possible NSX and a truck scale may not be giving you the most accurate information.
As mentioned by others you may wish to get corner balanced.

 

[docjohn]

Coincidently... after a 3-4 year hiatus of not posting and just lurking untill recently after I bought turbo2go's CTSC did i start posting on prime again... maybe Dave sent me his nsxprime addiction in the box.

omg its the supercharger.....talisman.....

 

[Patricio]

No need to overreact.
You're striving to make the lightest possible NSX and a truck scale may not be giving you the most accurate information.
As mentioned by others you may wish to get corner balanced.

I appreciate your advice
Corner balancing is on the to-do list, after remaining mods over next few months.

 

[RYU]

I'd like to see the results of a corner balance also. When I read "truck scale" I cringed haha
[MENTION=16531]stuntman[/MENTION] - amen! Totally agree on all points of subjectivity regarding track times, drivers, hype, and the drama associated with journalists published articles. I wish there was an objective way to comprehensively review cars. It'll never happen...

 

[Honcho]

The driver that set the 7:56 lap time is Motoharu "Gansan" Kurosawa and it is video confirmed. That car had a slightly different suspension setup than the factory NSX-R (which ended up in Vance's 2003 NSX of Fast and Furious fame) and was bespoke for the run (you can see all of the different shocks and springs Honda brought with them for the run in the full NSX-R BM video). However, the lap time is legit. Billy is right though in that the driver and weather conditions can swing the times by many seconds at the Ring. I'm now getting into the GT-R world and we're having this very discussion on the forum. Michael Krumm himself joined in and said driver error in his 7:08 lap was about 2-3 seconds because he messed up on a couple of corners.

 

[stuntman]

^Link to the video showing the various suspensions?

 

[RYU]

[MENTION=15790]Patricio[/MENTION] thanks for the kind words. I drive an old 91. If you're ever in SoCal you're welcome to drive it

 

[greenberet]

The driver that set the 7:56 lap time is Motoharu "Gansan" Kurosawa and it is video confirmed. That car had a slightly different suspension setup than the factory NSX-R (which ended up in Vance's 2003 NSX of Fast and Furious fame) and was bespoke for the run (you can see all of the different shocks and springs Honda brought with them for the run in the full NSX-R BM video). However, the lap time is legit.

Double-checking the Nürburgring lap times listed in post #89 makes the comparison seem rather one-sided. Most of the lap times were driven by the journalist Horst von Saurma from the German magazine Sport Auto. He's not as fast as factory test drivers when driving Japanese cars or German cars. I can't remember him ever matching the Nürburgring lap times Porsche publishes.

The posted lap time of 7:54 for the Nissan GT-R was not by him. Even he was able to achieve 7:38 in a GT-R (Sport Auto issue 7/2009). Most of the lap times listed in post #89 were driven by relatively slow drivers. Except for the NSX-R.

To make the comparison more apples to apples, you should compare the lap times in that list with von Saurma's times in the GT-R and NSX-R: 7:38 and 8:09. Even if that blows some of the pixie dust off the NSX-R. And I say that as a Honda fan. I don't plan on ever selling the NSX I've owned for over 20 years and there's model of a McLaren-Honda MP4/6 and a Honda NSX Type-S on my desk as I write this. But it's good to retain a little bit of objectivity!

 

[Patricio]

Double-checking the Nürburgring lap times listed in post #89 makes the comparison seem rather one-sided. Most of the lap times were driven by the journalist Horst von Saurma from the German magazine Sport Auto. He's not as fast as factory test drivers when driving Japanese cars or German cars. I can't remember him ever matching the Nürburgring lap times Porsche publishes.

The posted lap time of 7:54 for the Nissan GT-R was not by him. Even he was able to achieve 7:38 in a GT-R (Sport Auto issue 7/2009). Most of the lap times listed in post #89 were driven by relatively slow drivers. Except for the NSX-R.

To make the comparison more apples to apples, you should compare the lap times in that list with von Saurma's times in the GT-R and NSX-R: 7:38 and 8:09. Even if that blows some of the pixie dust off the NSX-R. And I say that as a Honda fan. I don't plan on ever selling the NSX I've owned for over 20 years and there's model of a McLaren-Honda MP4/6 and a Honda NSX Type-S on my desk as I write this. But it's good to retain a little bit of objectivity!

Most of the times are posted are in fact by random professional drivers, picking out what Horst did is irrelevant, especially since he is the editor of a german magazine who gets paid by German companies. No different than the English biased and American biased journalists.

You need allot more than pixie dust to convince the entire automotive used car market of japan to pay 50-100k more for abused NSX-R's than a new GTR, It HAS to be fast. There well over 400 NSX-R's, that's no more rare than a GPW NSX in USA "rarity" alone will not justify that 150-200k NSX-R price, Not to mention NSX-Zero is 150k also, neither rare... they both have to be FAST

Best motoring and other magazines in japan may make videos of NSX-R beating 911's and Ferrari's....... but it they also make videos of it beating their own fast cars GTR's, RX7's ect... They could easily mock it for not being fast, if it where not....

Now should we compare "drift kings" 911 times vs his NSX-R times? or with all these attempts to discredit the NSX-R maybe consider renaming the site and inviting "zee germans"? :smile:

 

[greenberet]

Most of the times are posted are in fact by random professional drivers, picking out what Horst did is irrelevant...

Dude, 7 of the 11 lap times you listed in post #89 were Horst's. Here's the list again, this time including the drivers:

7:52 BMW M4 (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 7/2014)
7:52 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 12/2003)
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 3/2005)
7:54 Nissan GT-R 2008 (??? Horst von Saurma's time: 7:38)
7:54 Porsche 911 Turbo 997 (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 5/2007)
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight (???)
7:55 Ferrari F430 F1 (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 1/2006)
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 (???)
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 5/2007)
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1 (Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto issue 2/2004)
7:56 Honda NA2 NSX-R (Motoharu "Gansan" Kurosawa. Horst von Saurma's time: 8:09)