SF bay area.
i paid $2.50
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ok that was 3 yrs ago :biggrin:
i paid $2.50
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ok that was 3 yrs ago :biggrin:
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Paid $4.19/gal for gas last night
- Thread starter Dhalsim
- Start date
ha. Good one.
Back when I lived in Sacramento....I paid $0.99/gal....but that was 17 years ago. :biggrin:
Yep, agree. Not all oil is sold at market prices. There is not quite a monopoly, but a significant amount of the world's supply, controled by cooperating organizations (aka OPEC). This partly prevents the free markets from working like they should.
The US can do more to reduce the oil supply shortages. The effects of mini-shortages and the fear of major shortages is what is causing the price to be high. We could reduce these fears to some extent, both by increasing production and refining capabilities and by finding ways to use less oil.
- Joined
- 10 November 2002
- Messages
- 1,124
OPEC is definitely a cartel whose purpose is to fix prices. That is EXACTLY what they do. Oil prices are rising in part because since oil prices have been set by the cartel to be denominated in $USD, and the dollar is weakening, the cartel raises the price to keep the moneyflow (income) constant or increasing in value. (Note: This is the same thing that the county does with property taxes. When property values rise, their take increases. When property values fall, they HIKE THE PROPERTY TAX to keep the take at the same level. In the future, your property taxes will be the same as your mortgage payment is now. Don't believe me? Ask your parents. Think you "own" your home? You don't - you are just renting from the bank and the county. Get cancer and need expensive treatment? Well, you better try the herbal remedies, because if you don't pay your property taxes the county will put your cancer-ridden a** on the street. If your choices are pay your property taxes or get cancer treatment, the government will let you die. The government is not your friend.) OPEC is considering denominating barrel prices in Euros, which won't help the USA if the value of the dollar keeps sinking.
Some notion that it would be possible to "regulate" oil prices in the USA is ridiculous. We have to compete in a global marketplace for energy. If prices are fixed, it only constricts supply. If the government were to say that it is illegal to charge, say, more that $4/gallon for gas, all that would happen would be that if the barrel price exceeded say $120 then the refiner would have to not buy crude, assuming that $120/barrel would break even at $4/gallon at the pump. Any barrel price over $120 would drive refiners out of the market, and some other country (China, India, or elsewhere) would buy the crude. Then you would see 1970s-style lines at the pump, with signs out front saying "sold out of gasoline" when the last gallon was pumped. Price fixing doesn't constrict demand, it constricts supply.
The typical oil company makes 8 to ten cents profit on a gallon of gas, which seems reasonable to me for a product that is extracted and imported at great geographic and political difficulty worldwide, yet people pay more for bottled water from the grocery store, for the love of God. Something you can get for pennies at the tap in your house. Enjoy cold water in a bottle? So do I. Do what I do. Keep a container or two filled in your refrigerator that you refill from the tap.
Every time gas prices break an even dollar amount, the public gets anxious and the politicians hold "show hearings" where they berate the oil company executives to score points with the public. Just once I would like to be an oil company executive and face questioning from a politician. "Senator, I agree that there is vulgar profiteering going on in the oil industry. The profiteers are here in this room. The biggest profiteer in the room is YOU. The government's take on gasoline is FIVE TIMES the amount that we earned. When do you propose eliminating the gasoline tax?" There is only one element of the price of a gallon of gasoline that be eliminated with the stroke of a pen - the taxes, but eliminating the taxes ain't ever gonna happen. The government makes too much money off gasoline to give the money up, much like tobacco taxes. So after the hearings, what happens? Nothing. It is all a show. The politicians make a lot of noise about "Big Oil" every election, while being careful to not be too specific.
In point of fact, the public should be happy when Exxon/Mobil posts record profits. Record profits by the oil companies don't reflect profiteering, they reflect record demand. So if record profits for oil companies are bad, then YOU* are partially to blame for doing nothing to reduce your demand. And besides, know who owns the oil companies? Chances are, you do. Check the specific holdings in your pension plan or 401k. You might be surprised. You should be willing to take an equal hit to your pension plan that you would like to see an oil company take in profit reduction. So if you think oil companies should earn, say 20 percent less, then you should be willing to see your pension plan decline by a commensurate amount. I would also point out that the oil company isn't some greedy executive, a la Mr. Burns (Simpsons) at the top. The oil company is everyone who works for a living (both blue- and white-collar) to make the company successful. So be careful who you punish when you want to see an oil company suffer.
If you are angry about record gas prices or oil company profits, what are you going to do about it? You could "get even" with them by moving closer to work, taking mass transit, buying a more fuel-efficient car, or even an electric car. (Nothing wrong with any of these things.) (I also agree that it is difficult for the working class guy or gal to uproot when they are living paycheck to paycheck already. It is always the poor and working class who suffer first.) If you bought an electric car, you could then be mad the electric company for burning coal instead of being mad at the oil companies for producing what you want and need and something they make available to you on just about every street corner in America in abundance.
For most people, there ARE things that they can do to reduce their consumption. Of course, the problem is that these things require sacrifice. So of course it is a lot easier to be mad at an oil company (or electric company) that to actually DO SOMETHING about what they are unhappy about.
You paid $4.19 a gallon? Sounds like a bargain.
*When I say you, I don't mean the original poster. I mean the generic "you"; anyone who thinks that the oil companies are the enemy.
Some notion that it would be possible to "regulate" oil prices in the USA is ridiculous. We have to compete in a global marketplace for energy. If prices are fixed, it only constricts supply. If the government were to say that it is illegal to charge, say, more that $4/gallon for gas, all that would happen would be that if the barrel price exceeded say $120 then the refiner would have to not buy crude, assuming that $120/barrel would break even at $4/gallon at the pump. Any barrel price over $120 would drive refiners out of the market, and some other country (China, India, or elsewhere) would buy the crude. Then you would see 1970s-style lines at the pump, with signs out front saying "sold out of gasoline" when the last gallon was pumped. Price fixing doesn't constrict demand, it constricts supply.
The typical oil company makes 8 to ten cents profit on a gallon of gas, which seems reasonable to me for a product that is extracted and imported at great geographic and political difficulty worldwide, yet people pay more for bottled water from the grocery store, for the love of God. Something you can get for pennies at the tap in your house. Enjoy cold water in a bottle? So do I. Do what I do. Keep a container or two filled in your refrigerator that you refill from the tap.
Every time gas prices break an even dollar amount, the public gets anxious and the politicians hold "show hearings" where they berate the oil company executives to score points with the public. Just once I would like to be an oil company executive and face questioning from a politician. "Senator, I agree that there is vulgar profiteering going on in the oil industry. The profiteers are here in this room. The biggest profiteer in the room is YOU. The government's take on gasoline is FIVE TIMES the amount that we earned. When do you propose eliminating the gasoline tax?" There is only one element of the price of a gallon of gasoline that be eliminated with the stroke of a pen - the taxes, but eliminating the taxes ain't ever gonna happen. The government makes too much money off gasoline to give the money up, much like tobacco taxes. So after the hearings, what happens? Nothing. It is all a show. The politicians make a lot of noise about "Big Oil" every election, while being careful to not be too specific.
In point of fact, the public should be happy when Exxon/Mobil posts record profits. Record profits by the oil companies don't reflect profiteering, they reflect record demand. So if record profits for oil companies are bad, then YOU* are partially to blame for doing nothing to reduce your demand. And besides, know who owns the oil companies? Chances are, you do. Check the specific holdings in your pension plan or 401k. You might be surprised. You should be willing to take an equal hit to your pension plan that you would like to see an oil company take in profit reduction. So if you think oil companies should earn, say 20 percent less, then you should be willing to see your pension plan decline by a commensurate amount. I would also point out that the oil company isn't some greedy executive, a la Mr. Burns (Simpsons) at the top. The oil company is everyone who works for a living (both blue- and white-collar) to make the company successful. So be careful who you punish when you want to see an oil company suffer.
If you are angry about record gas prices or oil company profits, what are you going to do about it? You could "get even" with them by moving closer to work, taking mass transit, buying a more fuel-efficient car, or even an electric car. (Nothing wrong with any of these things.) (I also agree that it is difficult for the working class guy or gal to uproot when they are living paycheck to paycheck already. It is always the poor and working class who suffer first.) If you bought an electric car, you could then be mad the electric company for burning coal instead of being mad at the oil companies for producing what you want and need and something they make available to you on just about every street corner in America in abundance.
For most people, there ARE things that they can do to reduce their consumption. Of course, the problem is that these things require sacrifice. So of course it is a lot easier to be mad at an oil company (or electric company) that to actually DO SOMETHING about what they are unhappy about.
You paid $4.19 a gallon? Sounds like a bargain.
*When I say you, I don't mean the original poster. I mean the generic "you"; anyone who thinks that the oil companies are the enemy.
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LOL.
I filled up tonight in order to get ahead of the long week end price hike. To think it can go higher?? :frown:
$1.334 / litre for 94 octaine - $CDN 5.05 / US gallon
70 litres - $93.00
It just makes you appreciate the drive even more!
PS> In Alberta/Canada we are at 25% tax on fuel.
I filled up tonight in order to get ahead of the long week end price hike. To think it can go higher?? :frown:
$1.334 / litre for 94 octaine - $CDN 5.05 / US gallon
70 litres - $93.00
It just makes you appreciate the drive even more!
PS> In Alberta/Canada we are at 25% tax on fuel.
the real issue is the malnourished ego of americans driving commercial vehicles as daily transport- c'mon, do you really have to use that dually f350 to get to your office? you just used 3x the amount of fuel versus a normal car. thats what is causing the shortage, the undiscriminate waste. so i say raise those prices, thats the only thing that will make the idiots think.
You make a good point here. Earlier this week I was commuting in my Integra and w/in my immediate view in traffic I took note of other commuters. There were about four other subcompacts around me and....nine (9) full size trucks and SUVs. I never really noticed before, but was really surprised to see many full size vehicles on the road with gas prices at $4.
I know my experience is anecdotal, but it reinforced for me that gas is still relatively affordable in the United States.
Mobil $3.66 Regular
BP $3.89 Premium
The lowest prices that I have found in St. Louis.
The whole price thing is pure bullsh*t. It wasn't that long ago, only a few years, it was a buck and change here. Pure f*cking greed. Period. Another thing that kills me is how prices go up $.20 overnight, but takes 3 weeks to go down $.10. They know they got us by the nads.
BP $3.89 Premium
The lowest prices that I have found in St. Louis.
The whole price thing is pure bullsh*t. It wasn't that long ago, only a few years, it was a buck and change here. Pure f*cking greed. Period. Another thing that kills me is how prices go up $.20 overnight, but takes 3 weeks to go down $.10. They know they got us by the nads.
Next, well go back to "odd" "even" days based on lic. plates.
- Joined
- 27 April 2008
- Messages
- 25
Yes, I agree gas is still totally affordable for most people. However, it is less so for those people who live and work in states that go by the fed minimum wage. CA has one of the highest min wages in the country....so $8/hr / $4/gal = 2 Gal per hour of work. In other states with the fed minimum wage..... $5.85/hr / 3.80/gal = 1.54 Gal per hour of work. Of course this greatly oversimplified (no income tax, etc) but you can see that the prices are affecting people more in the southern states than elsewhere. So even if prices are affordable for YOU, they might not be for someone else.
This same principle can be applied to another arguement I see alot. People are throwing out random arguements like "price of gas in europe is much more expensive than that in the US." Well...have you considered the minimum wages of these european countries? Lets take for example England (United Kingdom). According to CNN (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/) gas prices in the UK are @ $5.79/gallon. According to wiki the minimum wage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country) for a UK worker is £5.52 per hour (aged 22 and older). I believe it is a valid assumption that most owners of NSXs are 22+. Now, given the current exchange rate of 1 British pound = 1.9542 U.S. dollars...the minimum wage for UK is 10.75. Again the same ratio as before... $10.75/hr / 5.79/gal = 1.85 Gal per hour worked. So according to this model, the English are paying less for gas than southerners.
Please agrue against me, I like economic discussions =)
This same principle can be applied to another arguement I see alot. People are throwing out random arguements like "price of gas in europe is much more expensive than that in the US." Well...have you considered the minimum wages of these european countries? Lets take for example England (United Kingdom). According to CNN (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/) gas prices in the UK are @ $5.79/gallon. According to wiki the minimum wage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country) for a UK worker is £5.52 per hour (aged 22 and older). I believe it is a valid assumption that most owners of NSXs are 22+. Now, given the current exchange rate of 1 British pound = 1.9542 U.S. dollars...the minimum wage for UK is 10.75. Again the same ratio as before... $10.75/hr / 5.79/gal = 1.85 Gal per hour worked. So according to this model, the English are paying less for gas than southerners.
Please agrue against me, I like economic discussions =)
I finally paid $4.19 for the first time.
Gabe,
You're showing your age.:wink: I believe leaded gas was about 50 cents/gal. at the time.
Gabe,
You're showing your age.:wink: I believe leaded gas was about 50 cents/gal. at the time.
No need to argue against you...you've already given up your argument "agree gas is still totally affordable for most people". :biggrin: :wink: That is, unless you are arguing for/against the exception rather than the rule. :smile:
- Joined
- 24 May 2002
- Messages
- 1,431
It cost 100 dollars to fill up the BMW today. There was still 15 litres left in the tank.
The good part is Shell V spec super ultra or whatever they call it, gold would be appropriate, has no ethanol content.
The good part is Shell V spec super ultra or whatever they call it, gold would be appropriate, has no ethanol content.
A little over a week ago I was stuck paying $4.40
Normally it's 3.99-4.20 here.
THATS IT!!! Canada - we're taking over your oil reserves, we know you have 2/3 the amt of oil in the middle east -but it's hard to get. Now prices are at a level where it makes financial sense to acquire it. BEWARE!!!
Normally it's 3.99-4.20 here.
THATS IT!!! Canada - we're taking over your oil reserves, we know you have 2/3 the amt of oil in the middle east -but it's hard to get. Now prices are at a level where it makes financial sense to acquire it. BEWARE!!!
Gas can easily go back down to $1.50/gal if we start to drill for oil in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico. It's a shame that we are so dependent on foreign sources of oil when we have the ability to collect and refine it locally.
- Joined
- 24 May 2002
- Messages
- 1,431
I bought some dates today, vacuum packed from Saudi Arabia. If you bought some dates maybe the Saudis wouldn't be so dependent on oil sales and they would lower their prices.
keep dreaming.
prices will never come down. once they got us to swollow the $4 a gallon, why sell a barrel for less then 100$?
sell as little product for as much as possable.
thats a smart business plan. :smile:
Good thing I don't have any numbers on my plate.
I personally hope gas prices stay this high or another few dollars more. I still see too many trucks/suvs on the roads.
Good thing I don't have any numbers on my plate.
I personally hope gas prices stay this high or another few dollars more. I still see too many trucks/suvs on the roads.
hate suvs but love sports cars
hate suvs but love sports cars
hate the fact that people use them when they don't need to. Most sports cars are not daily drivers. Mine is, but then again I also have my sports bike :wink: . I sold my Civic HB a couple yrs ago, looking to get another CRX or even a del Sol.
What a difference 8 years make. I think back in 2000 oil was selling at $28/bar
I pay $ 4.11 for premium in the east bay,and it's just going to go up so wtf over.............bill
For all the whiners out there crying now, think about 8 years from now. You'd be happy to pay $4.00 a gallon. Enjoy while it lasts.
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