Rumor mill: Type R coming in 2020

[BB]

Yes seriously. The mirrors on the Nsx are so long, it amazes me that any owners have not broken any off yet. Many supercars have power folding mirrors, nose lift, and much better electronics than Honda put into the Nsx. You’re correct it is not a luxury sedan. It’s a supercar which luxury sedans and even some suv’s are already nipping at the heels of, “performance wise.” It’s a neat car. For the cost though and depreciation alone you’d have to be insane to purchase one at msrp. Or you could theoretically call it a technological dynamite but then buy skateboard rails to mount to your front bumper to protect it from leaving it behind in a parking lot. That’s cutting edge I guess.

You make a good point about how long the mirrors are on the car. Considering this they probably should have included power folding mirrors. Although I'd still argue that the lack of this feature really doesn't reduce the cars tech credibility.

There are essentially no luxury sedans and SUVs that provide similar performance unless you're talking about a drag race. Please don't pull an Elon Musk. Elon loves to say "The Model S is faster than Ferrari". Then you see one on the Nürburgring where the battery overheats and the car goes into limp mode after being driven really hard for only a few minutes.

I agree. Even though I could afford one today, I'm not willing to pay MSRP either. If they depreciate rapidly it will become an amazing used car value and I'll likely buy one. So I'm in favor of the buyers with large disposable incomes rejecting the car.

 

[nsx878]

In my opinion, the hybrid components on the car were not put there to be green, or save the planet, or pressure from the EPA, rather, they are there to supplement performance - added torque for acceleration, torque vectoring, etc. The fact that it can be run like a true hybrid is a by product of the hybrid implementation and not the intent. But the way that the NSX seamlessly switches back and forth is unique. The increase in fuel economy is also a byproduct, and why not use it..... It is definitely odd to be in a supercar that turns off at stop lights..... With regards to mirrors, yes, very wide. I clear my single car garage by 3" on each side so I have to be careful. Folding doesn't make sense as you'd need them to back out of the garage?? It's hard for me to call the car a failure..... pretty damn good to me, regardless how it compares to other cars. It is no longer a $200K car. Honda repriced it. It's now considered a $$126K car plus options.....

 

[dshinke21]

For everyone saying that the type-R won't sell well, I've already got two owners begging to give me a deposit on a car we don't even know will ever be made and if so when it will be made. Even if it is just everything listed here they will sell because it's exclusive and limited production and owners will be more willing to buy as there is less of a chance they loose that money on it.

Hardest part of moving new cars now is guys that won't buy new because it instantly becomes devalued with the past of the 30k incentive. Instead of me having customers order them I am tasked with finding cars on the used market that fit their specs. The 30k did a lot of good but hurt a lot as well. We won't know the ultimate impact till we look back in 5 years to what happened.

 

[fastaussie]

It's hard for me to call the car a failure..... pretty damn good to me, regardless how it compares to other cars. It is no longer a $200K car. Honda repriced it. It's now considered a $$126K car.

this doesn't sound like a winner either?

For everyone saying that the type-R won't sell well, I've already got two owners begging to give me a deposit on a car we don't even know will ever be made and if so when it will be made.

so that'll be 5 regular NSX's per month, and 2 Type R's for the year!

 

[docjohn]

about those mirrors http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/206136-Bad-Day-broken-Mirror!

 

[nsx878]

So, now the success of a car is to be determined by how much money you can sell it for???? The price of the NSX has nothing to do with the car itself and if the car is a success..... The car is what it is, and as an owner, I can tell you that it is pretty good, very different experience, but different doesn't equal bad....... When I first discovered the NSX at a car show back in Nov 17', my initial impression was that this was a $100-125K car...... After getting home and researching, I discovered that the asking prices on most of the cars was near $200K. I thought. Whoa, I'm not going to pay $200K for a Honda....... It's not a Ferrari and just not going to command Ferrari prices. An overestimation by Honda...... The car is good, but folks didn't want to pay Ferrari prices for a Honda. It was the same for the Gen 1 cars..... They didn't command Ferrari prices either. . With the rebate and dealer discounts, the Gen 2 cars sold briskly. The problem for any and all supercars, is the fact that it is a finite and oversaturated market with a limited pool of buyers, and really tough for a newcomer to break into. And BTW, Fastaussie, do you own a Gen 2? Have you ever driven one? Just curious?

 

[nsx878]

The Type R thing is an urban legend..... The specs and release dates for the venerable type R have been all over the internet for 2 years....... More likely to get GT3 decals and a wing.

 

[Axxlrod]

The wide mirrors are one of my favorite design features of the car; very exotic looking. But they need to be that wide to see around the intakes. Power-folding would be very welcome though.

This thread sure has gotten depressing. You guys are making it seem like the NSX program is about to be cancelled. The investment dollars are already spent. I think the car will soldier on probably for many years, just like the Gen 1, with Acura rolling out a couple updates every couple years.

 

[The King]

The wide mirrors are one of my favorite design features of the car; very exotic looking. But they need to be that wide to see around the intakes. Power-folding would be very welcome though.

This thread sure has gotten depressing. You guys are making it seem like the NSX program is about to be cancelled. The investment dollars are already spent. I think the car will soldier on probably for many years, just like the Gen 1, with Acura rolling out a couple updates every couple years.

Don't let the "Debbie downers" get to you. You have an awesome car, enjoy it!

 

[docjohn]

you owners should not be dismayed at the blatherings of non-owners...amused maybe...:wink:

 

[nsx878]

you owners should not be dismayed at the blatherings of non-owners...amused maybe...:wink:

Fully agree, you have to drive it, own it, and experience it to understand it fully....... Very different and unique experience.

 

[kennyvb]

Yes seriously. The mirrors on the Nsx are so long, it amazes me that any owners have not broken any off yet. Many supercars have power folding mirrors, nose lift, and much better electronics than Honda put into the Nsx. You’re correct it is not a luxury sedan. It’s a supercar which luxury sedans and even some suv’s are already nipping at the heels of, “performance wise.” It’s a neat car. For the cost though and depreciation alone you’d have to be insane to purchase one at msrp. Or you could theoretically call it a technological dynamite but then buy skateboard rails to mount to your front bumper to protect it from leaving it behind in a parking lot. That’s cutting edge I guess.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/206136-Bad-Day-broken-Mirror!?

 

[docjohn]

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/206136-Bad-Day-broken-Mirror!?

way ahead of you in post 30:wink:

 

[kennyvb]

way ahead of you in post 30:wink:

Doh! It deserves another repost lol

 

[fastaussie]

So, now the success of a car is to be determined by how much money you can sell it for???? The price of the NSX has nothing to do with the car itself and if the car is a success..... The car is what it is, and as an owner, I can tell you that it is pretty good, very different experience, but different doesn't equal bad....... When I first discovered the NSX at a car show back in Nov 17', my initial impression was that this was a $100-125K car...... After getting home and researching, I discovered that the asking prices on most of the cars was near $200K. I thought. Whoa, I'm not going to pay $200K for a Honda....... It's not a Ferrari and just not going to command Ferrari prices. An overestimation by Honda...... The car is good, but folks didn't want to pay Ferrari prices for a Honda. It was the same for the Gen 1 cars..... They didn't command Ferrari prices either. . With the rebate and dealer discounts, the Gen 2 cars sold briskly. The problem for any and all supercars, is the fact that it is a finite and oversaturated market with a limited pool of buyers, and really tough for a newcomer to break into. And BTW, Fastaussie, do you own a Gen 2? Have you ever driven one? Just curious?

i think success in the automotive industry is determined by how well a car is received and sells. that would be my gauge. those results, as we all know, speak for themselves.

as i've said before (quite a few times on this forum) i have personally driven the gen 2 NSX on road and track many times. and not only have i driven just the NSX, but i have driven it on the same day, on the same tracks, with the same tires as the R8, Huracan, 570s, 458 and 488, AMG GTR, 911 Turbo & GT3, etc. so i have an incredible and invaluable basis for direct back-to-back comparison.

and as i have also said before, as recently as several days ago, the new NSX is an exceptional car. it does everything quite well. it's very well engineered, the application of technology is seamless, and it's performance is impressive. the biggest problem for the NSX is that the competition does everything a little bit (or some times a lot) better...

 

[EuroBoutique]

Owners of this car understand why it's special, non-owners and critics do not.

The problem for Honda is how do you handle this combination?

We also have Lambo / McLarens here and talk to the owners on a daily basis as we build parts for all the exotics. The general consensus is the new NSX is a GREAT car even in their eyes. A few Ferrari owners locally daily drive a new NSX and keep the Ferrari out for special occasions.

So is that a negative or positive testament to Acura? You decide

Totally agree lane assist or any of that new tech garbage is not needed on this car. When we ordered our F80 M3, we specifically ordered it as a stripper model with no gadgets, less weight, less items to break. The car doesn't have a front lifter but it did have folding mirrors!

2 things the NSX could use is front end lift and folding mirrors for parking in tight spaces, no argument there!

If there was a Type-R we would be interested but it has to be priced to make sense. We are diehard Honda fans but when you start to tip-toe into the $250k-$300k range, now you are truly in exclusive "big boy" territory since the McLaren LP675LT and Ferrari Speciale' live there......


We love our car, it's a true Swiss army of exotics right now!

 

[nsx878]

FastAussie, Thanks for the reply..... I appreciate people's opinions more if they have had experience with the car. It's just sad to me that such a great car got sold down the river basically due to Acura/Honda's marketing/pricing issues, among other things. I use the word great in relative terms. Certainly not the best ever, nor the worst ever, but at re-priced dollars, I think it's an interesting buy..... It is faster than many cars, even the odd Ferrari, but even to those that it is not as fast as, it certainly keeps up, and for a LOT less investment than most..... Acura seemed to be good with some 200 cars sold per year for many years, and maybe they will be happy with that sales volume going forward. Only time will be the judge.....

 

[EuroBoutique]

Another thing to add: there will always be 2 types of buyers, the hardcore ones that will NEVER drive anything but Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren, etc and the ones who are open to new ideas/new things

For Type A: Doesn't matter what Honda makes, even a flying car won't impress that group

For Type B: This is where Honda can focus their efforts in our opinion


Few will admit their driving skills are lacking but majority of the population will never use the 100% potential of any of these cars, most use the cars for shows, occasional track duty and maybe picking up their kids once in a while. In that group, a million factors come into play so what works for one owner may not for another. Track performance is what everyone talks about but few of these cars actually see track time. Most of the conversations we overhear people saying are:

- Exhaust Note
- Looks obviously
- Brand snobbery
- Reliability
- Comfort level for long trips
- Luggage space related to above trips
- Speed / acceleration

- One aspect not talked about here much is accessibility to a local dealer for issues. In big cities it may not be a concern but in smaller cities if you have to tow your McLaren 300+miles for every service, that idea gets old REALLY FAST and tiresome.

 

[nsx878]

Eurobotique, great post, thanks...... It's also nice to see that you are not afraid to drive the car. I'm trying to force myself to drive mine more and worry about depreciation less.... As the old saying goes, you can't take it with you when you're dead.....!

 

[bngl3rt]

My main concern in tracking my current '17 is weight - 3800lbs is a lot to haul down to a stop at every corner, and you eat through tires and brakes at an insane pace doing it.

If it costs $20k to take out 100lbs, and my ideal weight for a track car of this caliber is 3200lbs, it will cost $120k (on top of the base price of the existing car) for my ideal version of the NSX-R. At $280k the lap times better be eye watering - that's GT2RS money.

And no, I don't want them to do that by taking all the hybrid stuff out. The hybrid stuff is the core differentiating disruptive innovation at the very heart of what makes this car special. I want a track car with insane magical torque vectoring. If I wanted an Evora, I would have bought one (and if you want an Evora-but-made-by-Honda-so-it's-reliable, I think there's room for that product around the Evora's price range, but you wouldn't call it NSX).

The 3800lbs number was a disappointment when Honda first announced it to those of us who are diehard followers of the old NSX's philosophy. Driving the new car convinced me that the suspension technology "hid" the weight very effectively during street use, but you can't hide from physics on the track. I will put a deposit on an NSX-R the day they announce the weight, assuming it's anywhere near my ideal....

 

[nsx878]

Another thing to add: there will always be 2 types of buyers, the hardcore ones that will NEVER drive anything but Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren, etc and the ones who are open to new ideas/new thingsFor Type A: Doesn't matter what Honda makes, even a flying car won't impress that groupFor Type B: This is where Honda can focus their efforts in our opinionFew will admit their driving skills are lacking but majority of the population will never use the 100% potential of any of these cars, most use the cars for shows, occasional track duty and maybe picking up their kids once in a while. In that group, a million factors come into play so what works for one owner may not for another. Track performance is what everyone talks about but few of these cars actually see track time. Most of the conversations we overhear people saying are:- Exhaust Note- Looks obviously- Brand snobbery- Reliability- Comfort level for long trips- Luggage space related to above trips- Speed / acceleration- One aspect not talked about here much is accessibility to a local dealer for issues. In big cities it may not be a concern but in smaller cities if you have to tow your McLaren 300+miles for every service, that idea gets old REALLY FAST and tiresome.

Great post.... You've hit the nail on the head! I appreciate your views that come from your wide range of experiences in the supercar/exotic car business. You can put me in Group B. I'm not a Lambo/Ferrari/Lambo kind of guy. The NSX was appealing as it was something different, and affordable comparatively speaking. I also agree 100% that very few if any NSX or other supercar owners will EVER drive their cars at the limit. For me, one of the greatest attributes of the NSX is it's ability to accelerate...... thanks to the electric motors! It only takes a few seconds of full throttle acceleration in launch mode to understand the car. Advertised top speed is irrelevant to me as the odds are that very few will ever have the opportunity to reach top speed. So, to me acceleration is worth more than paying $100K more for a car that has a 207 MPH top speed that you'd never see any way..... Yes I know that someone is going to say that brand X can do 0-60 in 2.8 secs, but who cares.... The NSX is good enough for me. Anyway, thanks for the great post......!!!!!!!

 

[Axxlrod]

The guys that have "FU money" will go Ferrari/Lambo/Mac 99% of the time. Hell, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd fill my 10 car garage with the same. And if I'm being completely honest, the NSX probably wouldn't make the cut.

But for the guys who can afford "only" one high-end sports car, the NSX is the best bang for the buck for 2 reasons... 1) price and 2) drivability.

Price because for roughly $150K it's the best buy out there. Fcars, Lambos and Macs (except 570) cost way more, and the closest competitors cost-wise, R8 and GT3 are still marginally more expensive; plus good luck getting a GT3 for less than $25K over sticker. I'll throw the AMG GT in there also; the NSX outperforms all the variants except for the top model, and that one costs much more than NSX.

But the NSX biggest edge, and the reason I bought it, is the Honda reliability. And the fact that you can pile mileage onto it. I know so many guys that own Fcars, Lambos and Macs, and they are so scared to rack up miles on them because of the depreciation each mile brings. So they end up being garage trophies that are brought out once or twice per month. I drive my NSX probably 5 days out of 7. When my lease is up, I plan on having about 45k miles on the car. That is practically unheard of with the Italians. Take a look at most Fcars that are for sale. Most have like 3 or 4 thousand miles on them. Where's the fun in that. Not mention the maintenance headaches with the italian cars.

 

[nsx878]

Axlerod, Great post..... Thanks! What's in the air today? Great post after great post.......

 

[powdbyrice]

The Type R thing is an urban legend..... The specs and release dates for the venerable type R have been all over the internet for 2 years....... More likely to get GT3 decals and a wing.

NSX A-Spec! :biggrin:

 

[fastaussie]

Another thing to add: there will always be 2 types of buyers, the hardcore ones that will NEVER drive anything but Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren, etc and the ones who are open to new ideas/new things

For Type A: Doesn't matter what Honda makes, even a flying car won't impress that group

For Type B: This is where Honda can focus their efforts in our opinion

i'm not a die-hard fanboy of any one particular brand. i do love the Italian stuff (who doesn't?), but i have stuck up for all of the brands when the biased and uneducated bashing of Porsches, Audi R8's, McLaren's, any Honda competitors begin. and i'm not even a particular fan of some of those brands.

i too was hoping Honda would build a world beater with this current NSX. unfortunately they fell a bit short, that's just the way it is. still a great car, just not the best in the segment.

life goes on...

Not mention the maintenance headaches with the italian cars.

(unknown) maintenance for the NSX has no known edge on the Italian cars mate. you can drive the balls off of them these days, they don't require much. for instance, the 458 was the first Ferrari to have a lifetime clutch and transmission. no replacement required, ever...