Salvage NSX

sjs said:
I'm not sure that's the reason. Anyone buying the car at auction will do so fully aware of the condition and know all about washing titles, so they aren't fooling anybody. Not that I have a better explanation, but people make up all kinds of rules and policies.

It would be interesting to see what the current CarFax looks like for Eddie's car.
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I can say without a doubt a wrecked car with a clean title is worth much more than a wrecked car with a "branded" title. They is no "good" reason to withhold the vin, other than self serving ones. When this car goes up on the block and the auctioneer says "Boys when you finish this one you will have a clean title", you bet rebuilders will be all over it. The profit potential goes way up and so does the interest and the price of the car.
Now imagine you are the buyer/rebuilder and think you got a great deal on a clean title car. Then when you go to sell the car the end buyer runs a car fax comes back good. Then ~maybe checks Prime or types the vin number in Yahoo's home page and BAM there is the wrecked pics of the car.
IMO there is only underhanded reasons to withhold the vin number.
 
steveny said:
I can say without a doubt a wrecked car with a clean title is worth much more than a wrecked car with a "branded" title.
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Duh!!! But that's not my point. If it's "clean" when it goes on the block that's true, but to hide the VIN now is meaningless because everyone can see why it's there. Put another way, it would take a moron not to assume that the title was washed, so withholding the VIN now makes no sense at all unless they get a lot of VERY naive buyers, and that's unlikely since the auctions are restricted.

Would you buy that car believing that the “clean” title wasn’t washed? Of course not! Is it worth more to you because someone already took care of it? Sure, but that’s no less true if you had already seen the salvage title.
 
First off a title does not have to be "washed" to come back clean if it is not branded in the first place. Sometimes the owner of the car will buy back a totaled car from his insurance company with part of the proceeds from the insurance check. In NY if the owner does this the title does not change hands and the title stays clean. If this is the case with this car MAYBE the owner is having the car auctioned off for himself.
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Duh!!! But that's not my point.

Maybe you have an angle that I did not see during my many years of going to auctions and doing wrecked repairables.
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If it's "clean" when it goes on the block that's true, but to hide the VIN now is meaningless because everyone can see why it's there.

No one goes to a "salvage auction expecting to buy a perfect car true. Hiding the vin now protects only those people on the inside of the salvage business not the general public. Most that see the car the way it is there would prefer that the public never does. Without a VIN to connect the wrecked car pics to the repaired car the door is wide open to tell less than the truth when selling the repaired car.
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Put another way, it would take a moron not to assume that the title was washed, so withholding the VIN now makes no sense at all unless they get a lot of VERY naive buyers, and that's unlikely since the auctions are restricted.

The auction houses are not in the business of washing titles in the first place. There are very few naive buyers at a salvage auction I can assure you that.
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Would you buy that car believing that the “clean” title wasn’t washed?

If this car is sold at auction with a clean title it is not because it was washed by the auction house. Title washing is done by repairers or salvage yards.
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Of course not!

Yes If the car was priced right I would buy it regardless of what the title said. Unlike the vast majority of people in "the business" I took before pics of cars I repaired and supplied them to the buyer. Even on the cars that had a clean title.
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Is it worth more to you because someone already took care of it? Sure, but that’s no less true if you had already seen the salvage title. [/B][/QUOTE]

The car would be worth the same to me either way.----------------------------------
 
Well you've managed to misinterpret almost everything I said. I don't really think the auction house would have the title washed, but someone else suggested that they might be waiting for a clean title and I said not likely. Then you stated with great authority "I can say without a doubt a wrecked car with a clean title is worth much more than a wrecked car with a "branded" title." (and yet now you state "The car would be worth the same to me either way.") So I clarified (or so I thought) by saying that hiding the VIN until (if) a clean title is available would server no real purpose. A change in perceived value at the auction, if any, would be based on the existence of a clean title not the knowledge of it having been salvaged initially. You lost me with some of your response but since the VIN will be available once the sale is scheduled I don't see what difference a few more weeks make. The pics aren't even available yet unless you get the stock number from them.

But of course it is entirely possible that they really are waiting for a clean title, whether that makes sense or not. But I think they just don’t yet have a right to list it because they don’t yet hold the title. Seems like a simple and reasonable policy to me.
 
The IAA website routinely witholds VIN's, at least on all the NSX's I have looked at over the past 9 months or so. The VIN on this car can be obtained, but one might have to physically go look at the car to get it.
 
sjs said:
Well you've managed to misinterpret almost everything I said. I don't really think the auction house would have the title washed, but someone else suggested that they might be waiting for a clean title and I said not likely. Then you stated with great authority "I can say without a doubt a wrecked car with a clean title is worth much more than a wrecked car with a "branded" title." (and yet now you state "The car would be worth the same to me either way.") So I clarified (or so I thought) by saying that hiding the VIN until (if) a clean title is available would server no real purpose. A change in perceived value at the auction, if any, would be based on the existence of a clean title not the knowledge of it having been salvaged initially. You lost me with some of your response but since the VIN will be available once the sale is scheduled I don't see what difference a few more weeks make. The pics aren't even available yet unless you get the stock number from them.

But of course it is entirely possible that they really are waiting for a clean title, whether that makes sense or not. But I think they just don’t yet have a right to list it because they don’t yet hold the title. Seems like a simple and reasonable policy to me.
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Originally posted by steveny
So they don't want the vin associated with the car in its current condition. I bet they are hoping for a clean title to be returned.

I'm not sure that's the reason. Anyone buying the car at auction will do so fully aware of the condition and know all about washing titles, so they aren't fooling anybody. Not that I have a better explanation, but people make up all kinds of rules and policies.
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Here is how the above statement reads out to me...
Everyone at the auction will know the car is wreck so what's the point of them hiding the vin.

True...BUT anyone at the auction could care less about the car being wrecked. They are not going to fix it and drive it. They are going to fix it and sell it at maximum profit to the public. In order to achieve maximum profit it would be best if the car does not have a salvage title and that there is no way for the general public to find out the car was wrecked. Better yet if the car does have a salvage title and they buy it on the cheap and then wash the title.


Joe Blow wrecks his NSX. Assume he is insured. The insurance company comes out and looks at the car. Three things can happen at this point.
1. The car gets fixed
2.the car is totaled.
a. Insurance company pays Joe for the car and takes possession of the car.
b. the car is auctioned with salvage paper work, NOT a title
3. the car is totaled
a. Joe Blow takes the car and the insurance check minus a small amount of money for buying the car back.
b. Joe fixes the car or sells the car with his Clean title.

Option 3 is the option I have always taken with all the cars I have personally totaled. Three of which I rebuilt and sold with clean titles, two others I took to auction with clean titles.If I had not told the buyer they would not have known any of the cars I had fixed were wrecked. However if I did not want the buyer to know the cars were wrecked the last thing I would have wanted was the Vin number public information with pictures of the wrecked car.

There are also unscrupulous people that deal in buying the wrecked car at auction, washing the title, and then reselling the car still in its wrecked condition but with a clean title. This happened to a Prime members car a year or two ago.

I would bet that the VIN on this car will not be available at all to the general public. More than likely the title will get "washed" on this car. Tell me how this car could have a "clean" title and command top dollar after being rebuilt if the VIN and the current pictures on Prime are linked. Wasn't there a guy on prime that was trying to pass off a certain blue car as never wrecked when in fact it was. Wasn't he pissed off that he was found out. Had pictures of the car not been public 50% of people might have been fooled.
 
KGP said:
The IAA website routinely witholds VIN's, at least on all the NSX's I have looked at over the past 9 months or so. The VIN on this car can be obtained, but one might have to physically go look at the car to get it.
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The VIN is often times withheld on high dollar cars because there is a greater profit in "washing" the title.

Or a thief stealing a high end car then buying a utterly destroyed unrebuildable like kind car at auction for the Vin tags and paperwork.
 
Sorry, but everything you said about how rebuilds work is common knowledge and common sense, nothing new, and the only part that ties back to this car being sold at auction (as opposed to someone else after rebuild) is based on the assumption that the VIN will never be available. But it will be, assuming they do in fact auction it off. And they'll give it out over the phone even if it isn't listed on the site, so if they were concerned about sites like this posting it then they're out of luck. But they don't care, they just auction them off.
 
sjs said:
Sorry, but everything you said about how rebuilds work is common knowledge and common sense, nothing new, and the only part that ties back to this car being sold at auction (as opposed to someone else after rebuild) is based on the assumption that the VIN will never be available. But it will be, assuming they do in fact auction it off. And they'll give it out over the phone even if it isn't listed on the site, so if they were concerned about sites like this posting it then they're out of luck. But they don't care, they just auction them off.
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\

When you get the VIN be sure to post it here.
 
sjs said:
OMG, and I thought I was cynical. So you dismiss the possibility that they simply don't give out complete VINs until the title is in-hand and the car officially posted for sale? Are you a wagering man?
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Well it sure looks like they are not making it very easy to get the VIN. Any of the repairables I bought I got the VIN right over the phone without problem one.
Like I said...when you get the VIN be sure to post it here. Even if I am wrong and you do in fact get the VIN I will have achieved my goal of making sure no pays top dollar for a "cleansed" car.
 
Perhaps you missed it in all this mess but they stated flatly to more than one person (including me) that the VIN would be available as soon as they post it for sale, but they are "waiting on the title". Sure, they may be lying, but that would be pretty silly since I'll be calling back. But the odds are pretty good that we already have the VIN so it should be on the salvage list.
 
sjs said:
Perhaps you missed it in all this mess but they stated flatly to more than one person (including me) that the VIN would be available as soon as they post it for sale, but they are "waiting on the title". Sure, they may be lying, but that would be pretty silly since I'll be calling back. But the odds are pretty good that we already have the VIN so it should be on the salvage list.
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You Wrote:
Edit: Nope, still there and not yet scheduled for auction. They are not willing to give out the VIN until it is scheduled for auction. Apparently they are still waiting on title issues etc.

I'm guessing they will give out the VIN only to those who show up IN PERSON for the auction, NOT over the phone.
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White 92 wrote:
I just emailed the branch manager at that auction in Springfield. (It helps to be an insurance adjuster.) He gave me the stock number and this link for the car with all the info. The only bad part, is that there is only a partial VIN listed at this time. He wouldn't give me the entire VIN. Sorry guys, I tried.

I assume from this statement that White92 made an extra effort to get the VIN and was denied. I don't see where they told him he could get the VIN later.
 
KGP said:
Who besides Cliff Clavin really cares?
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I would be really disappointed if I were fooled into spending my money on a "Cleansed" car. Especially so if it was an engineered effort to keep the info from the public.
 
I should give up, but this is such fun. Having spoken with them myself, and waiting while the nice lady gladly looked for the VIN only to be told that it would not be given out until the title was received and the car listed, which she relayed to me, when I read "...is only a partial VIN listed at this time" I may have jumped to the conclusion that he was paraphrasing, or perhaps they were paraphrasing, but it wasn't much of a jump. Well, I've wasted quite enough time this evening.
 
steveny said:
I would be really disappointed if I were fooled into spending my money on a "Cleansed" car. Especially so if it was an engineered effort to keep the info from the public.
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What the heck has that got to do with selling and obvious wreck at auction and not giving out the VIN until it is actually for sale??????????????????????????????????? And aren't you the one who stated earlier that auction houses aren't in the business of cleansing titles? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Oh never mind, argue with Cliff. Good night.
 
steveny said:
I would be really disappointed if I were fooled into spending my money on a "Cleansed" car. Especially so if it was an engineered effort to keep the info from the public.
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steveny, point: it's their SOP. So, you have got to take them at their word to a degree. All else is what amounts to, what you make out to be, a conspiracy theory. Plus, I figured you wanted to type some more tonight.
 
ERZ said:
The CTS NSX will sell for $20k with salvage title...
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Well, you would know! I suspect that would be around the sell price.
 
When I emailed the manager of the auction trying to get the VIN, he also sent me a copy of the NADA showing me the value. I'll try to attach it if I can.....
 

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