The police are out of control in my area...

[westernb4]

Kenji:

I think that what you were put through is an absolute outrage. Especially the "guns pointed at me" part. I understand that being a cop can be a tough job, but what job isn't tough.
I disagree with other posters that this is a "minor" legal matter.
I for one hope that you fight this.
In fact, if you do and need assistance, I'd be willing to pledge maybe $100 toward your legal expenses. Perhaps others who post on this site would be willing to do the same.

 

[BladesNSX]

Originally posted by Ryoma:
...and everyone wonders why no one has any respect for police officers. I've experienced the bully fascism of small town cops growing up in Oklahoma, and have helped friends deal with aftermath of the big city racism of cops here in Houston. I've some sympathy for them granted the idiots they must have to frequently deal with and the real and/or potential danger of their occupation. That does not excuse their inexcusable behavior and attitude - every traffic stop is NOT a felony. There seems to be little regard for professionalism or conduct or the realization that even the reckless driver that they just pulled over is a taxpayer to which they owe their jobs.


Granted my statements are generalizations that absolutley don't fit every law enforcement officer, but unfortunately seem to apply to the majority. My experience as lawbreaker (traffic only thank you very much) and as crime victim have left me with absolutely no respect for, faith in, or liking of police officers. When a group of individuals only causes you unnecessary problems and never provides any assistance in the case of real ones, how else can you feel?

Hmmm...okay...I feel a mixture of frustration and sympathy here. Ryoma, your very narrow vision of law enforcement is sad. Obviously you have issues about a previous and obviously bad experience with the police. Lord knows,I have had my share of bad (although "bad" is an understatement) experiences with the police but I am mature enough not to generalize them for this.

When you have to wrestle a guy down who has shit all over him, when you have some rich snobby B*tch call your chief and lie about you treated her without respect when infact she disrespected you, thus risking your career and potentially the means by which you put food on your table, when you work from 6am to midnight one day and work 11am to 10pm the next day, when you get punched and kicked by some punk thug but if you hit him back your the enemy in the eyes of the public, and when you get spit on, disrespected by the bad apples you all hate, lose relationships because of the time you have to devote to your career, and not be able to enjoy simple things like having Saturday and Sunday off.....then my friend...I will gladly listen to your opinion of the police. And the ironic thing is, my dept. is not nearly as bad as a few others here in Miami. In some departments down here, the police are too busy dodging bullets to concern themselves traffic enforcement.

For the rest of you that received 15, 20, or 30 tickets, take a step back and ask yourself why that is. I have received a grand total of 3 tickets; and I am no saint behind the wheel. I have only been a cop for 2 years so don't pull that "cops don't give cops tickets" excuse. There are far more good cops out there than there are bad. Let me ask you this. If you got robbed by a black man and later the same year you get into a little brawl with a black man, would you then assume that most black men or violent as*holes??
I am not here in defense of cops as a cop. When I was very young a pair of cops saved me from a seriously bad situation. They bought me something to eat and brought me to a foster home where I would be safe for a while. At least NSXtasy has a logical and ethical point of view on all of this; and for that I thank you.


Blade

By the way. Pay close attention to when this reply was made. I got home from work only an hour ago; however, I started at 6am. I will dedicated this post to my brother; also a police officer, he has located and arrested four homicide suspects this month. He is in the SRT and is a damned good cop. But I suppose with your logic the only thing worth pointing out is the few tickets he wrote this month.

 

[BladesNSX]

POLICE

Well, Mr. Citizen it seems you have figured me out.

I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me. I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true, I can never figure you out.

From birth you teach your children that I'm the boogeyman. Then your shocked when they identify with my traditional enemy, the criminal! You accuse me of codling criminals...until I catch one of your kids doing wrong!

You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day, but point me out as a loafer for having one cup!

You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles!

You raise hell with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you!

You know all the traffic laws...but youve never gotten a single ticket you deserve!

You shout "foul" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than 10 seconds to respond to your complaint!

You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but call it police brutality if I strike back!

You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull your tooth or your doctor how to take out your appendix, yet you are always willing to give me pointers on the law!

You talk to me in the manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

You yell that somethings got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved!

You have no use for me at all, but of course its OKAY if I change a flat tire for you wife, deliver your baby in the back of a patrol car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours over time looking for you lost daughter!

So Mr. Citizen you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think, that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my buddies!

Yes Mr. Citizen, its me...the lousy cop!!!

The author of this article was Trooper Mitchell Brown of the Virginia State Police. He was shot and killed two months after writing this article.

A salute to the millions of men and women who put there lives on the line for us everday.


The above was not made up. Rather it is a copy of an article given to many law enforcement officers following his death.


Blade

 

[BladesNSX]

Originally posted by BladesNSX:
POLICE

Well, Mr. Citizen it seems you have figured me out.

I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me. I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true, I can never figure you out.

From birth you teach your children that I'm the boogeyman. Then your shocked when they identify with my traditional enemy, the criminal! You accuse me of codling criminals...until I catch one of your kids doing wrong!

You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day, but point me out as a loafer for having one cup!

You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles!

You raise hell with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you!

You know all the traffic laws...but youve never gotten a single ticket you deserve!

You shout "foul" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than 10 seconds to respond to your complaint!

You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but call it police brutality if I strike back!

You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull your tooth or your doctor how to take out your appendix, yet you are always willing to give me pointers on the law!

You talk to me in the manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

You yell that somethings got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved!

You have no use for me at all, but of course its OKAY if I change a flat tire for you wife, deliver your baby in the back of a patrol car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours over time looking for you lost daughter!

So Mr. Citizen you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think, that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my buddies!

Yes Mr. Citizen, its me...the lousy cop!!!

The author of this article was Trooper Mitchell Brown of the Virginia State Police. He was shot and killed two months after writing this article.

A salute to the millions of men and women who put there lives on the line for us everday.


The above was not made up. Rather it is a copy of an article given to many law enforcement officers following the Trooper's death.


Blade

 

[kenjiMR]

Hey thanks all of you! Thats some great feedback that I will try to sort out to decide exactly what my course of action will be. I just spoke with a friend who happens to be a lawyer (not traffic or criminal), as well as another woman who is or was a public defender. They told me some information about the typical procedure for issues such as mine. Anyways, the woman's tone of voice did not seem very promising... especially on the financial part. She was saying something in the range of $3000 to pay for the lawyer etc. The most discouraging fact of all is that I may have to pay up to $3000 to sort out something that I am convinced I am not guilty for.

This is sad...

I can't imagine how someone who cannot afford that (almost myself included) could ever fight a wrongfull ticket such as this one. They are scrood.

Anyways, my lawyer friend has been really helpfull and we plan to get the police report as soon as possible. I'll try to keep you all updated on the progress of this situation.

Thanks again!


[This message has been edited by kenjiMR (edited 30 August 2001).]

 

[nicholas421]

Originally posted by BladesNSX:
When you have to wrestle a guy down who has shit all over him, when you have some rich snobby B*tch call your chief and lie about you treated her without respect when infact she disrespected you, thus risking your career and potentially the means by which you put food on your table, when you work from 6am to midnight one day and work 11am to 10pm the next day, when you get punched and kicked by some punk thug but if you hit him back your the enemy in the eyes of the public, and when you get spit on, disrespected by the bad apples you all hate, lose relationships because of the time you have to devote to your career, and not be able to enjoy simple things like having Saturday and Sunday off.....then my friend...I will gladly listen to your opinion of the police.

those are all valid reasons why your job sucks... and good reasons why most people choose other professions. but none are reasons why the public should put up with frustrated cops.

janitors have to deal with the entire world looking down on them. they scrub your urine and shit from toilets. they work just above minimun wage. should he not have to listen to the opinions of his employees?

 

[justin hall]

I totally agree with blade, while at the same time feel bad for kenji.

Obviously kenji got screwed, that sucks. But all the idiots out there that "hate" all cops and generalize an entire population for a bad apple or two are not worth the help an officer can give them when they are being car jacked, crash, or whatever.

By the way, I am not a cop. I speed all the time, but haven't gotten a ticket in 4 years. I commented to my wife just this morning that I am WAY overdue. I am mature enough to know that the next time I get a ticket I will deserve it - the price I pay for appreciating a great car.

However, I have been pulled over at least 5 times since my last ticket. Being respectful, keeping my hands visible, and responding honestly when the cop asks if I know why he pulled me over (yea, I know I coasted through that stop sign, and I am not going to waste your time with a lame excuse) has gotten me out of each and every one.

Cops perform a thankless job. Give 'em a break.

 

[David]

It really pisses me off to hear the assholes in the police department being defended with the 'but its a tough job' arguement. So what? There are a lot of tough jobs. Try pouring tar in AZ when it is 118 outside. Try being a soldier. I can remember going to meet my father at the airport in 1973 when he came back from Vietnam and being shocked at the demonstrators who yelled and spit at the man I adored. Did I ever hear him or any other soldier use that as an excuse for something they did? Of course not.

Yes, being a cop is harder than being the mailman or working at Blockbuster Video. Yes, we are probably better off with them than without them. But, that has nothing to do with the ones that are jerks. Here in TX, if you see a cop, you can bet money he is doing at least 20 mph over the speed limit. And he will never use a turn signal. And, if you drive like he does, he will pull you over.

I get hassled by the cops here over bullshit on a regular basis. It has nothing to do with them having a tough job and everything to do with that individual being a prick (or having a small one). Yes, it is clearly an over generalization to say that all cops are assholes. However, its tough to believe otherwise when you have never met one who isn't.

I respect the good cops (that theoretically are out there), but there is no excuse for the pathetic abuse of power that I witness on a regular basis. Pretending that one justifies the other is an insult to the (few) police that are actually doing a good job.

------------------
Don't no nuttin 'bout no NSX;
Don't no nuttin 'bout birthin' no babbies.

 

[RaptorX]

Originally posted by David:
Yes, being a cop is harder than being the mailman or working at Blockbuster Video.

---------------------------------------------

Hey, my father is a mailman and he says its hard work!

Seriously though, I'm not gonna get into my personal feelings about cops cause quite honestly, I don't really have any.. yet. To me, they're just there and if they do their jobs then everyone is happy. The one thing I would like to mention however is that cops make me very nervous when I'm driving. Maybe it's because I'm not the best driver out there, but I definitely feel a strong sense of intimidation whenever I see a patrol car near me. The worst is when they end up on your tail and believe it or not, I have actually made turns into side streets simply to break away from them. The fact is, most people are probably intimidated by cops, but at the same time, SOME cops may use this for personal gain.. such as "bending" the rules or even ignoring some laws. The only time I have had experience with police officers so far was not a pleasant one. (Standing in front of our Town Hall one evening, I was waiting for my father to pick me up. All of a sudden, an unmarked patrol car pulls up to me and out came several police officers who immediately asked what I was doing there and [after I explained to them I was waiting for a ride], told me to leave the area claiming I was trespassing on "town property" and to stand across the street instead.) Since then my feelings for law enforcement personnel have remained neutral, but I did come to realize that SOME still pulled power-trips. Now I have made extra care not to offend anyone with this post and I hope I have not, and I know this is a bit off topic, but I just wanted to share my view on cops since most of you already shared yours.

 

[David Allen]

What it really comes down to is that cops are PEOPLE. It doesn't matter of they're a cop or a 7-Eleven clerk - if the people are messed up, they're messed up, regardless of their job. Pricks and egotistical dominators will be just that, regardless of their profession. I don't care what anyone says, but enforcement roles attract dominating people for the most part. Somebody who joins to 'help others' or 'protect the public' is few and far between - but they do exist - I've met a few of them and they have my respect.

We live in a world where integrity, honor, truth, and responsibility are not understood nor adhered to by the general populace. Cops aren't the problem - people are the problem. Cops just represent a small group of people that usually fall into a generalized category.

My real concern isn't the people that are out there who wear a badge (or don't) - my real concern is the people out there who behave maliciously towards others, or hurt others. It's just a fact that some of those people wear badges.

Only thing we can do is act with integrity, honor, truth, responsibility, and try to set an example in the hopes that those 'who don't get it' some day will.

Welcome to the Human Race.

[This message has been edited by David Allen (edited 30 August 2001).]

 

[BladesNSX]

Originally posted by David:
It really pisses me off to hear the assholes in the police department being defended with the 'but its a tough job' arguement. So what? There are a lot of tough jobs. Try pouring tar in AZ when it is 118 outside. Try being a soldier. I can remember going to meet my father at the airport in 1973 when he came back from Vietnam and being shocked at the demonstrators who yelled and spit at the man I adored. Did I ever hear him or any other soldier use that as an excuse for something they did? Of course not.

Yes, being a cop is harder than being the mailman or working at Blockbuster Video. Yes, we are probably better off with them than without them. But, that has nothing to do with the ones that are jerks. Here in TX, if you see a cop, you can bet money he is doing at least 20 mph over the speed limit. And he will never use a turn signal. And, if you drive like he does, he will pull you over.

I get hassled by the cops here over bullshit on a regular basis. It has nothing to do with them having a tough job and everything to do with that individual being a prick (or having a small one). Yes, it is clearly an over generalization to say that all cops are assholes. However, its tough to believe otherwise when you have never met one who isn't.

I respect the good cops (that theoretically are out there), but there is no excuse for the pathetic abuse of power that I witness on a regular basis. Pretending that one justifies the other is an insult to the (few) police that are actually doing a good job.

I see. David my friend. I seriously hope you are not calling ME an asshole. Such disrespect from someone who has never met me is uncalled for.

Just out of curiosity, how many cops do you know. Defining the word "know" as something more than a five minute traffic stop. BTW, I am not the asshole cop defending the "pricks" as you call them; I merely wanted to elaborate that the job demands respect in lieu of the dangers involved. IN CASE YOU DID NOT KNOW: MAILMEN AND JANITORS DON'T GET SHOT AT.

I find it interesting that you compare my career with that of mailmen, janitors, or a worker at Blockbuster. I know I am a civil servant; however, that does not make me any less deserving of respect. Indeed I have come to expect such condescension from certian people within this furom. If my logic was as analogous to yours and certain other replies, I would merely generalize everyone here; Thereby assuming that most if not all of you were a bunch of rich snobby jerks. Having met some of you in person I am glad to say that is not the case. When someone you love is saved by one of my fellow civil servants I hope you would gain a more logical point of view.

This is my final reply.

Blade

P.S. David Allen your words define you as an honorable man; I thank you.

 

[David]

Originally posted by BladesNSX:

I see. David my friend. I seriously hope you are not calling ME an asshole. Such disrespect from someone who has never met me is uncalled for.

Interesting. I cast out an off the shelf garment and you claim it is tailor made. I was very careful not to make the generalization that all cops are pricks - I just have never met one personally that wasn't. Refresh my memory - when have you and I met? Was it recently? Did you mention in that meeting that you were a police officer? Wait a second, you attack me for saying I've never met a cop who isn't a jerk, then ask if that means I am insulting you when your own response indicates we never met. What sort of logic is that?

That 'I get shot at' stuff does not impress me. I was a soldier for several years and I accepted that fact that I might be in a situation where someone might try to kill me as part of the job. I knew that before I signed up - just like cops do. I would never have used it as an excuse for breaking the law and I would not have allowed any of the other soldiers to do so either.

If you are a decent cop (and I hope you are), then you are lowering yourself by defending those who aren't. If they can not function in that postion, they need to find something else to do for a living.

By the way, mail men do get shot at - mostly by their co-workers. : )

 

[PG]

"What it really comes down to is that cops are PEOPLE."

True enough. There are several cops who live in my neighborhood, and I like and respect them all.

That still doesn't change the fact that every time I see a cop on duty - he's either writing someone a ticket or breaking the law himself.

I don't know if it's something about the profession that attracts jerks, or if the things they have to put up with as cops turn them into jerks.

Rationally, I know that most cops are probably good people who chose their profession out of a desire to make their communities better places.

But for some reason, when I see a cop - I don't think of the bad guys they lock up. I think of the cop who chooses the handicapped spot in an empty parking lot. Or the one who turns his lights on to get through a red light - and then turns them off as he pulls into a McDonald's drive-thru. Or the lone cop in civilian clothes driving his marked car in the carpool lane.

Maybe I'm not being fair. I have only my own experience to go on - and for whatever reason, when I think of cops, I don't think of rapists caught or robberies foiled.

I think of the cops I see every day, who clearly have no respect for traffic laws unless it's a ticket writing opportunity.

 

[nsxtasy]

I would hope that perhaps we can try to discuss our differences of opinion without picking each other's statements apart and without getting accused of trying to start a pissing contest. Please. Let's not take everything someone else says as a personal attack. We're better than that.

Perhaps we can agree on much of what's been said so far:

- Law enforcement officers have a stressful, demanding, dangerous job

- The demands of that job include the ability to behave properly and professionally, in the face of this stress and even direct provocation

- Some of the officers meet those demands well and ought to serve as a model for their profession, while others (either occasionally or often) display behavior that is improper, inappropriate, and/or illegal

- The officer that Kenji encountered falls into the latter category

And perhaps we can agree to disagree regarding which of these two categories represents the majority of the law enforcement community. Regarding this issue, I think most people do not see a balanced view of the law enforcement profession. If all you see is policemen who stop you for traffic violations, then you are only seeing that one aspect of their job - and it happens to be one in which you are not the beneficiary of their work, but the opposite. You don't interact with cops when they respond to street crime, or when they're patrolling your neighborhood while you sleep, or when they stop a seriously drunk driver (hopefully that doesn't describe us - if it does, shame on you). So you're judging everything they do by the only time you see them, without considering that they're doing you a world of good when you're not interacting with them.

I think David Allen's comments are very insightful. People are people; there are good ones and bad ones in every profession. But I also think that those who serve the public, and are given the authority and power to enforce the law, should be subject to a higher standard. If I have a private business and I do a poor job, then my business will do poorly, and I will suffer as a result. But if a police officer does a poor job, the public safety suffers. Keep in mind that (AFAICT) no one here is excusing the behavior of the cop that Kenji encountered. So perhaps we can all agree that such behavior is absolutely unacceptable, regardless of the extent to which it may or may not be representative of the entire law enforcement community.

 

[steveny]

I think of the cops I see every day, who clearly have no respect for traffic laws unless it's a ticket writing opportunity.


How about a speed monitor in all police cruisers that will show if a officer has sped. The officer would have to fill out paperwork each time the car exceeded the speed limit. If he wasn't in pursuit at the time of the infarction, he would get a ticket. I think the paper work alone would be a great deterrent for the double standards set by most of the lawinforcement community. I know what's wrong and what's right when it comes to driving. The fact is I hate to be told by someone that what I am doing is wrong when I see that SAME person doing what he just ticketed me for.

BLADE..How often do you break the speed limit in the police car when you are not in pursuit or on the way to a call?

I recently was hand cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car for "having a open beer bottle on public streets". However this was not true. Yes I had come out of a bar with my sister and brother-in-law. Strike one. It was 1 o'clock in the morning. Strike two. I was also intoxicated. Strike three. However I did not have a beer bottle. What I had was a brown wallet tipped up in front of my head to use the street light behind me. I was looking to see how much cash I had to go and get a hamburger down the street and weather or not I would have enough to call a cab. Turns out I had 105 dollars. More about that later. Anyways the police officer insisted that I did have a beer bottle and told me that if I admitted that I did he would let me go. Power tripper. No way I going lie and say I did when I didn't I told him. So he goes over in the bushes and pulls out a beer bottle, the thing must be 5 years old and full of mud. He says " see I told you had a beer bottle". He says now your going to jail. JAIL, I didn't do anything. He didn't care. He literally stuffs me in the back of the car and bangs my head on the roof, I think on purpose because I DEFIED him. So we go down to the jail where he asks me to clean out my pockets and wallet. I do so one handed because I am cuffed to the wall, being that I am this big criminal and all. He writes out two citations, littering and open container. Takes an inventory of all my thing, counts my money and says...bail is 110 dollars. Ironic I only have 105 dollars and he knows this. By this time my sister has come with another 5 dollars to set me free. The officer was so mad he really wanted me to sit in that jail. This is as close as I have ever come to any kind of trouble. I am a upstanding citizen. I went to court pleaded my case and believe it or not the court wanted to fine me for littering and drop the open container. Since they never seem to fine anyone for littering it took 30 minutes to find what the fine would be. Would you believe it was 500 dollars? I said no way am I paying 500 dollars for something I did not do. I fought it and eventually had it all dropped, all without a lawyer. The terrible thing is that even if you are found not guilty you still have to pay a processing fee. That is such BS. If your not guilty you should get back all your bail and reimbursed for all the time you had to take off work to deal with BS like this. So kenji I feel your pain.

 

[rquintero]

-----
David wrote:
It really pisses me off to hear the assholes in the police department being defended with the 'but its a tough job' arguement.
-----

Luckily I've had very few "official" encounters with cops, driving or otherwise. Although in many "official" encounters I'd say that they were a*holes, then again I could trace most problems with me doing less than the right thing in their eyes (albeit out of ignorance) - e.g. not putting my hands on the steering wheel/visible place or getting out of my car.

Then again, I deal with cops often as a business owner, and that is where you get to know them as individuals and appreciate them being around.

I do sympathize with Kenji, and that particular guy is a bad example.

And as a fairly average middle-class white guy reaching middle age with a desk job and no particular violence in my past, I gotta say that I avoid shitty or dangerous situations.

The pointed difference is that while most of us avoid bad situations, the cops actually have to GO to them and deal with whatever they find. That is their job.

When there were shots fired in the next building, I took cover. The cops went to handle it. Sobering fact.

Not quite the same as a mailman or janitor...

So while not defending cops, and certainly there are some jerks in the force, comparing jobs is silly.

Of course, nothing I've said applies to cops in Southern Alabama, there is just no excuse for those guys... <g>

 

[David]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I would hope that perhaps we can try to discuss our differences of opinion without picking each other's statements apart and without getting accused of trying to start a pissing contest.

Who are you and what have you done with Ken Sax? ; )

 

[NSX4U2]

"Shit Happens".

Kenji, this is not the place to complain about how you were treated for a traffic violation. I seriously doubt if it in any way was related to your NSX. You blew it my friend and got caught.

All I can say after reading all this, those who have contributed to a significant amount of quality information about the NSX, are now picking each other apart.

This is not the place to create enemies!!
Otherwise, we will not have an NSX Forum.

Please!

97-T @ 19K

[This message has been edited by NSX4U2 (edited 31 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by NSX4U2 (edited 31 August 2001).]

 

[speedemon]

Originally posted by steveny:
I think of the cops I see every day, who clearly have no respect for traffic laws unless it's a ticket writing opportunity.


How about a speed monitor in all police cruisers that will show if a officer has sped. The officer would have to fill out paperwork each time the car exceeded the speed limit. If he wasn't in pursuit at the time of the infarction, he would get a ticket. I think the paper work alone would be a great deterrent for the double standards set by most of the lawinforcement community. I know what's wrong and what's right when it comes to driving. The fact is I hate to be told by someone that what I am doing is wrong when I see that SAME person doing what he just ticketed me for.

BLADE..How often do you break the speed limit in the police car when you are not in pursuit or on the way to a call?

I recently was hand cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car for "having a open beer bottle on public streets". However this was not true. Yes I had come out of a bar with my sister and brother-in-law. Strike one. It was 1 o'clock in the morning. Strike two. I was also intoxicated. Strike three. However I did not have a beer bottle. What I had was a brown wallet tipped up in front of my head to use the street light behind me. I was looking to see how much cash I had to go and get a hamburger down the street and weather or not I would have enough to call a cab. Turns out I had 105 dollars. More about that later. Anyways the police officer insisted that I did have a beer bottle and told me that if I admitted that I did he would let me go. Power tripper. No way I going lie and say I did when I didn't I told him. So he goes over in the bushes and pulls out a beer bottle, the thing must be 5 years old and full of mud. He says " see I told you had a beer bottle". He says now your going to jail. JAIL, I didn't do anything. He didn't care. He literally stuffs me in the back of the car and bangs my head on the roof, I think on purpose because I DEFIED him. So we go down to the jail where he asks me to clean out my pockets and wallet. I do so one handed because I am cuffed to the wall, being that I am this big criminal and all. He writes out two citations, littering and open container. Takes an inventory of all my thing, counts my money and says...bail is 110 dollars. Ironic I only have 105 dollars and he knows this. By this time my sister has come with another 5 dollars to set me free. The officer was so mad he really wanted me to sit in that jail. This is as close as I have ever come to any kind of trouble. I am a upstanding citizen. I went to court pleaded my case and believe it or not the court wanted to fine me for littering and drop the open container. Since they never seem to fine anyone for littering it took 30 minutes to find what the fine would be. Would you believe it was 500 dollars? I said no way am I paying 500 dollars for something I did not do. I fought it and eventually had it all dropped, all without a lawyer. The terrible thing is that even if you are found not guilty you still have to pay a processing fee. That is such BS. If your not guilty you should get back all your bail and reimbursed for all the time you had to take off work to deal with BS like this. So kenji I feel your pain.

>>>>>>>>>

You've got plenty of advice, however it is funny how the whole ticket system is really just about revenue generation. I just moved to Las Vegas, and got a ticket for running a red light and not have NV plates (I had just gotten the car off the truck from Atlanta).
The law gives you 30 days, I was 35 days out, had the smog cert, VIN check, all the paperwork, just had not had a chance to spend all day at the DMV- cop gave me a ticket anyways.

On the red light, I MAY have caught it from yellow to red, who knows, but I did not totally run the light like I have seen others do. I went to court (no lawyer), the asistant DA told me (right off the bat, no whining from me) if I pled no contest, paid $ 130 and took a 4 hour driving classroom course, they would call it a day and knock it down to a parking ticket. I said
"deal" and went home.

What a joke. Why dont we just pay the cops directly? I have no problem with the police they have a tough job and get paid crap for it, but traffic enforcement is really a bad joke.

Wayne


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[wasif20]

Cops in Fairfax County VA are just as thick-headed. I just got pulled over doing 20 over the limit, but the road was brand new and I was lost. So, okay, I deserved the ticket for speeding. I was careless. The cop was such a dick!!! First he kept asking how old I am and why the car is in my father's name. I said, its his car. I had a small silver chain on my rear view mirror. He said if I didn't remove it immediately he would give me a ticket because it obstructs my view. Huh? Its a tiny ass chain!!! Then he goes back to his car, radios some other cops. 5 minutes later I have 3 cop cars and 4 cops behind me. The cop approaches with his hand on his weapon (not drawn). He said, "You have a concealed weapons permit are you carrying a weapon?" I said, no. Then he goes off on me saying I was dumb for not telling him that I had a permit. VA law states I have to tell him if I am carrying, not if I have a permit. What am i going to do, give him a paper cut? I am pre-paying the ticket because a young guy in Fairfax County Courts doesn't have a chance. But I am also complaining to his superior officer for his inappropriate manners. Each complaint goes on their record. I suggest you complain AFTER the court case or you have paid the ticket.

 

[nsxbadboy]

Maybe we can all just tape a 100 dollar bill to the back of our licenses so we can go on our way.

Joe

 

[strato]

When Police changed from being "Peace Officers" to "Law Enforcement" Officers, the whole game has changed from Innocent until proven guilty, to Guilty until proven innocent!

Curb side court is where you sign a citation as bail until you can prove your not guilty.

Good luck! The Prosecutors and Judges all work for the same boss, THE STATE!

BIG TIME SCAM!

They all work for MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS, and their duty is to make allot of money for their bosses, THE STATE, who pays them.

Now they have scattered within the States, PHOTO RADAR and PHOTO RED LIGHTS. This is where you get a "Citation" by the camera in the sky, AKA Big Brother!

They just mail you the HUGE FINE, without you being able to confront your accuser, because there is none, just a photo.

Under our Constitution, if you have not deprived anyone of Life, Liberty or Property, there is no CRIME.

Strato

 

[hejo]

I think this is a very sad thread.

kenjiMR: I lived in San Jose several years ago. I think your situation sucks for several reasons. While you were not treated appropriately for what you believe you did, I suspect you provoked it. Without realizing it you appeared to be driving reckless and then made a "very" serious mistake when pulled over. Never, ever get out of the car when pulled over. This is how people get shot in cities like San Jose. What's the auto theft rate for SJ these days? How many shootings occur each day in SJ? You might be surprised at how many occur each and every day in San Jose.

I also believe the officer also was out of control. No excuse as his partner should have sidelined him sooner. Does this make all officers bad? No.

What can you do? Go to court, be honest with your statements and admit where you were wrong. If you want to file a suit about being mistreated then find a lawyer who will do it by taking part of settlement. Based on your story I give a low probability of finding one who will think you have a chance.

Blade: While I don't live in Miami some of us do appreciate officers and what they do. For those who dare to compare other cities to Miami... one of the highest murder rates in the USA and THE highest car theft rate. Blade how you fit them in the NSX is beyond me.

Others:I have to say it is sad to hear many generalized negative comments about cops. I'm not one but am glad we have them. I don't like getting tickets either and believe generating revenue through traffic tickets is BS. I do everything I can to prevent getting them and will fight them. However on the other hand my wife has been in 3 accidents by reckless drivers. It’s a miracle she’s still alive. There are places to drive fast and places that it's irresponsible. Maybe I'm just lucky but I haven't had a speeding ticket and only 1 accident in over 20 years. Yes I open my car up all the time into triple digits. I just do it in places where I don't endanger other people and where law enforcement doesn't patrol for traffic violations.


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Hal Jones
Lake Oswego, Oregon
95T Blk\Blk SportShift

[This message has been edited by hejo (edited 04 September 2001).]

 

[kenjiMR]

NSX4U2!
How can you say I blew it!? You weren't there? I'm just stated that the police in my area are wrongfully pulling people over for not even breaking the law. You don't think that the police could be wrong? Thats just messed up. Anyways, I can definitely see that I will be fighting a tough fight because people will not believe me. I am going to take measures to protect myself in the future... or I will move to another country. I am half-white/half-japanese and am dual citizen. I've seriously considered to move out of this country recently. Japan, to be specific.

[This message has been edited by kenjiMR (edited 05 September 2001).]

 

[kenjiMR]

OOO new evidence I can use.

Cops have no speed recording on me, no radar or no pacing. The intersection they cited me for... its IMPOSSIBLE even in the NSX to go 60MPH through... also the shoulder now has dedicated lines to show that there is a right turn section. (It did exist during when I received the ticket, its new)

I will post the police report after I go get it.