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The Subjective Complaints Of Track-Centric Reviewers Do Not Dissuade Me

Joined
29 March 2015
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202
The initial reviews of the NSX 2.0 range from luke-warm to good but not great. In other words, none of the reviews are outright terrible, nor outright stellar; rather, they are generally middle of the road to good, but every reviewer thus far has identified subjective shortcomings which prevent a stellar final grade.

The criticisms identified by the reviewers are, generally speaking, inconsequential to me. Equally important, the positive attributes noted by several of the reviewers are critically important to me. Thus, I am undaunted by the luke-warm reviews to date.

The number one criticism identified by the reviewers appears to be numb handling/steering. This is entirely irrelevant to me. Most of the reviewers are frequent track drivers who seek a particular type of feel for optimal track driving – they like go-karts that they can push, slide, and drift around turns – they enjoy losing traction in order to push the limits of the car. I will not track the NSX, nor push the limits of the car’s handling on surface streets. I have no desire to drift, slide or otherwise explore the limits of traction – I will cry “uncle” well before the limits of the car are reached. Moreover, I have no problem accepting the “assistance” of an advanced handling system that both improves handling (at my driving ability) and prevents loss of control. Many people have similar complaints about the GT-R . . . . “it drives itself” . . . . “its too easy to drive fast.” Personally, I love that about the GT-R . . . I love that the GT-R is easy to drive fast. Easy is just fine with me. I am looking for a daily driver with exceptional performance. I don’t need to work the car during my daily driving. It sounds like the new NSX will also be easy to drive fast as a daily driver. IMHO, that is a positive attribute. Lastly, most of the reviewers noted considerably more “feel” and less “numbness” in track mode (I don’t understand why these same reviewers spent so much energy criticizing the steering feel during other modes when the Track mode provided far greater feel).

The NSX’s weight is also a common complaint. Additional weight which results in inferior performance is obviously a negative attribute. However, increased weight which accomplishes other important objectives without excessively diminishing performance is a different story. One has to look at the reasons for the additional weight, and the results achieved by virtue of the weight. If the additional weight is necessary to achieve certain performance objectives, and the performance benefits achieved by the additional weight outweigh [pun intended] any diminishment in performance arising from the additional weight, the additional weight is a net net positive attribute. In the case of the NSX, Acura did not add weight for superfluous [again, pun intended] reasons. Rather, Acura was required to add weight in order to implement state of the art technology intended to greatly improve the performance of the NSX. The increased performance achieved by the additional weight far exceeds any diminishment in performance resulting from the additional weight. In other words, the NSX is faster, and performs far better, as a 3,800 pound car with the advanced technology than it would as a 3,400 pound car without the advanced technology. Moreover, as explained in the prior paragraph, the advanced technology improves the driving experience (for non-track drivers seeking easy fast daily driving), which also justifies the additional weight. My GT-R weighs a tad more than the NSX 2.0, and I have no problem with the weight. Notwithstanding the weight, my GT-R handles incredibly well – again, I cry “uncle” well before the limits of the GT-R are reached. Neither the NSX, nor the GT-R, are go-karts. If you want a go-kart for track driving, there are better options available.

Tires are easy to replace.

On the positive side, every reviewer has observed that the NSX has instantaneous acceleration and is lightening fast. This is critically important to me. As noted above, I will daily drive the NSX. Thus, I will encounter countless stoplights, and numerous standstill starts, every day. Having the ability to quickly accelerate from a standstill is vitally important to me. I will push the NSX 0-60 far, far more often than any other performance metric (e.g., 60-130, quarter mile, g-force, skid, etc.). Therefore, the NSX’s instantaneous, lightening quick acceleration matches up perfectly with my personal performance objectives.

Obviously, the foregoing observations are entirely subjective and predicated on my individual driving habits and performance objectives. If I were a frequent track driver, I might feel differently about the NSX. Acura set out to create an advanced, state of the art, lightening fast daily driver for the common man. IMHO, they achieved their goal. There may be slightly better options for advanced track driving, but there are not many better options for easy, fast, daily street driving.
 
You are on the mark. To add to your sentiments, Acura, in my mind, created a new segment of sportscar once again as it did with the first NSX. Having owned for a while now quite a spritely EV myself, there are several advantages people who have never lived with one simply have no concept of.

The new platform for the NSX will take time to fully develop. I hope that it is mostly a matter of fine tuning the software and continual updates of the code. McLaren and Tesla do this often now.

In many ways, I believe many industry engineers wish they could be in Acura's shoes because it really is a new frontier they are entering and who wouldn't want to be at the forefront of that.

Then again I'm a glass full kind of a guy. I'll reserve final judgment until I finally drive one.

I'll be spending over 10hrs in a 12C and 650S this wknd both on track and hwy. I've driven both in the past and Honda has a lot to aspire to since both are rather docile (not great) on the everyday roads.
 
Agree with you completely...

Perhaps I am a bit simplistic, but I assume that the Honda engineers looked at every single Kg added to the car with the question: is THIS extra Kg worth adding to the car.

Although I must admit that in the original NSX right from the start an additional 40-70 lbs could have easily been saved of the car (side intakes are a nice example), this is not 1990 anymore.
In the development of the original NSX, Honda did look at four-wheel drive, turbo's etc., but at the time deemed the possible extra performance did not offset the extra weight.
Obviously, with the Gen 2.0 NSX, the balance has swung the other way (at least in Honda's mind).

Also, I think, Honda was determined to build something very different from all the other 'supercars' out there. There are now plenty of examples of standard, traditionals cars with powerful engines which are relatively light. That path has been treaded more than enough.

Honda wanted to changed the game (again). Hopefully, time will tell they did it right.

As a side-note:
I like the way you describe that the 0-60 time is VITALLY important to you :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
 
Completely agree with your sentiments too although everything I've read suggests the numbness of the steering is almost eradicated by choosing the correct tyres, even when not in race mode.

I would like to know if the 0-60 really is on par with the GT-R, if it's not, I might consider buying my sixth! The NSX appeals more but not for the increased price tag.

Rumours of the R36 are now fleshing out and it seems the 2018/2019 delivery with 775bhp might make it the more appealing lighter weight hybrid option, even if it does actually have a $200k price tag.
 
Just my two cents: I DO care about track performance - I track my cars alot. Even so, I haven't heard anything to turn me off. I still will likely get one. The only thing that is properly annoying to me is the rather uninspiring exhaust note...but I assume that can be fixed.
 
I'm expecting to take my car straight to Akrapovic to get the exhaust side of things sorted. Assuming they haven't done it already by then.

I've heard through the grapevine that all the sound problems they are struggling with is directly as a result of the second set of cats in the exhaust. The standard thing everyone does on the GT-R at least is to get rid of those. I'd do exactly the same.

It would also mean a weight saving of about 10-15kg right over the rear axle! Looks like a win all round to fix that.
 
There appears to be a primary and a secondary set of cats as per the cutaway drawings. Removing these should yield additional petrol power. However, I'm concerned that extra, unmetered flow, will yield negative performance in terms of driveability. Might even need some tweaks to the software to compensate.

Hopefully I'm just over thinking this!
 
The initial reviews of the NSX 2.0 range from luke-warm to good but not great. In other words, none of the reviews are outright terrible, nor outright stellar; rather, they are generally middle of the road to good, but every reviewer thus far has identified subjective shortcomings which prevent a stellar final grade.

The criticisms identified by the reviewers are, generally speaking, inconsequential to me. Equally important, the positive attributes noted by several of the reviewers are critically important to me. Thus, I am undaunted by the luke-warm reviews to date.

The number one criticism identified by the reviewers appears to be numb handling/steering. This is entirely irrelevant to me. Most of the reviewers are frequent track drivers who seek a particular type of feel for optimal track driving – they like go-karts that they can push, slide, and drift around turns – they enjoy losing traction in order to push the limits of the car. I will not track the NSX, nor push the limits of the car’s handling on surface streets. I have no desire to drift, slide or otherwise explore the limits of traction – I will cry “uncle” well before the limits of the car are reached. Moreover, I have no problem accepting the “assistance” of an advanced handling system that both improves handling (at my driving ability) and prevents loss of control. Many people have similar complaints about the GT-R . . . . “it drives itself” . . . . “its too easy to drive fast.” Personally, I love that about the GT-R . . . I love that the GT-R is easy to drive fast. Easy is just fine with me. I am looking for a daily driver with exceptional performance. I don’t need to work the car during my daily driving. It sounds like the new NSX will also be easy to drive fast as a daily driver. IMHO, that is a positive attribute. Lastly, most of the reviewers noted considerably more “feel” and less “numbness” in track mode (I don’t understand why these same reviewers spent so much energy criticizing the steering feel during other modes when the Track mode provided far greater feel).

The NSX’s weight is also a common complaint. Additional weight which results in inferior performance is obviously a negative attribute. However, increased weight which accomplishes other important objectives without excessively diminishing performance is a different story. One has to look at the reasons for the additional weight, and the results achieved by virtue of the weight. If the additional weight is necessary to achieve certain performance objectives, and the performance benefits achieved by the additional weight outweigh [pun intended] any diminishment in performance arising from the additional weight, the additional weight is a net net positive attribute. In the case of the NSX, Acura did not add weight for superfluous [again, pun intended] reasons. Rather, Acura was required to add weight in order to implement state of the art technology intended to greatly improve the performance of the NSX. The increased performance achieved by the additional weight far exceeds any diminishment in performance resulting from the additional weight. In other words, the NSX is faster, and performs far better, as a 3,800 pound car with the advanced technology than it would as a 3,400 pound car without the advanced technology. Moreover, as explained in the prior paragraph, the advanced technology improves the driving experience (for non-track drivers seeking easy fast daily driving), which also justifies the additional weight. My GT-R weighs a tad more than the NSX 2.0, and I have no problem with the weight. Notwithstanding the weight, my GT-R handles incredibly well – again, I cry “uncle” well before the limits of the GT-R are reached. Neither the NSX, nor the GT-R, are go-karts. If you want a go-kart for track driving, there are better options available.

Tires are easy to replace.

On the positive side, every reviewer has observed that the NSX has instantaneous acceleration and is lightening fast. This is critically important to me. As noted above, I will daily drive the NSX. Thus, I will encounter countless stoplights, and numerous standstill starts, every day. Having the ability to quickly accelerate from a standstill is vitally important to me. I will push the NSX 0-60 far, far more often than any other performance metric (e.g., 60-130, quarter mile, g-force, skid, etc.). Therefore, the NSX’s instantaneous, lightening quick acceleration matches up perfectly with my personal performance objectives.

Obviously, the foregoing observations are entirely subjective and predicated on my individual driving habits and performance objectives. If I were a frequent track driver, I might feel differently about the NSX. Acura set out to create an advanced, state of the art, lightening fast daily driver for the common man. IMHO, they achieved their goal. There may be slightly better options for advanced track driving, but there are not many better options for easy, fast, daily street driving.

Wow! Steering feel is irrelevant as is the weight?! Just straight line performance matters to you!:rolleyes:

Wonder why they bothered marketing the car as one of the best , if not the best driver's cars!!:confused:

It is heavy, has a numb steering, under steers, has no exhaust note to write home about, but all that is irrelevant because it has a great 0-60 for stop light antics!!
There are numerous cars and pick up trucks which can do the same :wink:
 
Wow! Steering feel is irrelevant as is the weight?! Just straight line performance matters to you!:rolleyes:

Wonder why they bothered marketing the car as one of the best , if not the best driver's cars!!:confused:

It is heavy, has a numb steering, under steers, has no exhaust note to write home about, but all that is irrelevant because it has a great 0-60 for stop light antics!!
There are numerous cars and pick up trucks which can do the same :wink:
No disrespect... but I think this sentiment will be taken as myopic.
 
................right or nearsighted...............whichever..........
 
No disrespect... but I think this sentiment will be taken as myopic.

The definition of a fanboy : Loves a product/object regardless of the facts of the object's shortcomings. Ignores everything negative about the said object and finds good in even the most glaringly obvious faults:redface:.

I choose not to be a fanboy...that does not mean I am myopic...just not blind:cool:
 
can we start a new lexicon and call all of us half full guys fanmen.....:cool:
 
The definition of a fanboy : Loves a product/object regardless of the facts of the object's shortcomings. Ignores everything negative about the said object and finds good in even the most glaringly obvious faults:redface:.

I choose not to be a fanboy...that does not mean I am myopic...just not blind:cool:
ah, now I remember you. Carry on...
 
There appears to be a primary and a secondary set of cats as per the cutaway drawings. Removing these should yield additional petrol power. However, I'm concerned that extra, unmetered flow, will yield negative performance in terms of driveability. Might even need some tweaks to the software to compensate.

Hopefully I'm just over thinking this!

It may need a remap but it may not, the maf sensors can cope with some degree of additional airflow and it will definitely increase power.
 
It may need a remap but it may not, the maf sensors can cope with some degree of additional airflow and it will definitely increase power.
You're thinking of the petrol engine alone. Yes, the MAP, TPS, even WB O2 sensors will compensate but your'e forgetting the integration between the electric motors, transmission, and potentially other systems. We just don't know yet....
 
Yes I am thinking of the ICE. I can't see any reason why the additional systems would prevent the ice from responding to airflow changes created by a freer flowing exhaust.

I very much suspect that there's is a total torque output map which maps the augmentation of the relevant motors based on airflow and that additional airflow will simply yield a different zone of the map. It's of course possible that this will result in a saturated electric augmentation map which will require rescaling, but it might be as simple as electric power being proportional to throttle position which is indecent of the torque produced.
 
I've heard nothing to suggest that it isn't a great drive on track. By all accounts it corners brilliantly. Yes, the steering is apparently numb, but believe it or not an ultra sensitive rack is not vital for track work. R8s (I have one) are dead through the wheel, and they are very competent. At the end of the day it's the lap times that interest me.

Adamantium:
Yeah, I usually don't do the exhausts on my cars, but after hearing that note...I think I will have to make an exception. There are 4 cylinders that sound better...
 

Well written and realistic.
Like all cars the NSX 2 has its strengths and weaknesses.

The last paragraph and the last line of the article are very telling.

"You sound a bit underwhelmed…

On this fleeting encounter, perhaps the NSX didn’t reveal its depths. But my real fear is the new rivals that do a similar job by other means. I’ve fallen for the gen-2 R8’s V10 and the security of its drive. Same for the 570S’s playful yet benign handling. The NSX promised to be tomorrow’s supercar. But that was yesterday..."
 
They didn't even get to PUT it in track mode, let alone take it on a track. I wouldn't put too much stock in any conclusions they draw.

Problem with the new R8 and McC with me is the look. Can't stand either of them.
 
Why were they not allowed to try the track mode?

Perhaps this explains it.....

"We were given an absurdly short time with the car, and track mode was locked out. So we stuck to sport plus. Luckily I found a glitch in the transmission’s late-beta software and felt I owed it to the engineer to demonstrate. Thus TopGear doubled its allocated seat time. For the record the engineer was very grateful too."

Looks like the software has not been sorted out fully yet. It is a bit embarrassing to have a journalist point out a flaw in the software to an engineer:frown:.
 
That's the second time I can recall that the electronics have given up the ghost in a review. I wonder if it's the same vehicle? I hope so...
 
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