• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Think me engine is a gonner....

MetalSpikeRacing

MetalSpikeRacing

Experienced Member
Joined
20 March 2009
Messages
1,348
Location
Toronto/Cancun
Well, as of todayThe engine has 317,000 kms on it and finally seems to have some symptoms.
Today when I started it, I notice lots of fumes coming from the little filter off the catch can.
So I pulled the hoses from the valve cover breathers and there is a steady strong push of fumes coming from there, Its constant and it does fill the engine bay. I'm guessing the piston rings are bad.

Everything else seems fine as its always been, Like vacuum seats at -17, engine sounds like it always has and its driving like it always has with no issues other than the fumes from the valve covers. Going to the track this weekend, it'll be last one for me this season, better make it count I guess..
What are you toughs on this issue guys?


-MSR
 
I'm sorry to hear this. But just to be clear... don't you track your car? and you have turbocharged it? and it has 317,000 Km on it??? Do I have this right?
 
Yes there is a wide band, I always, always keep an eye on it. even more at the track.

But I dont know, I think it might been rich on daily driving. The gauge didnt say otherwise.
Already making my list for engine rebuilt I'm at 2,100.

Here is my list if anyone wants to add, I'm going extremely basic.

Pistons

Cometic Head gaskets

ARP head studs

LMA's

Main studs* maybe

Dali billet gear

and bearings

What else am I missing?

-MSR
 
Arp rod bolts are what I have and everything you have listed above minus arp main studs. I did source new main studs though.

I'd probably do a timing belt water pump service as well as ati damper.

Other then that it'll depend on your power goals for whatever else you want to do internally.
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
Well, as of todayThe engine has 317,000 kms on it and finally seems to have some symptoms.
Today when I started it, I notice lots of fumes coming from the little filter off the catch can.
So I pulled the hoses from the valve cover breathers and there is a steady strong push of fumes coming from there, Its constant and it does fill the engine bay. I'm guessing the piston rings are bad.

Everything else seems fine as its always been, Like vacuum seats at -17, engine sounds like it always has and its driving like it always has with no issues other than the fumes from the valve covers. Going to the track this weekend, it'll be last one for me this season, better make it count I guess..
What are you toughs on this issue guys?


-MSR
Click to expand...


Psshh I thought I was going to see some carnage pics

Do a compression check. and then if you want another with a tsp of oil dropped in each cylinder. Record your results. If its low to begin with and or it jumps really high after the oil you might need new rings. If not check your PVC valve, maybe your getting some pressurized air into the crankcase ( you said you were turbo right) idk just saying.
 
"Well, as of todayThe engine has 317,000 kms on it and finally seems to have some symptoms."
The normal response to such a post is sympathetic though from your use of the word "finally" it sounds like you have been waiting for a chance to tear into your engine. It also sounds like you are jumping at the chance to rebuild with insufficient diagnosis. The post above in re: pre and post oil in the cylinder compression test is a sure way to check for ring wear before you go at it. You mention the smell of fuel in the oil. That will thin the oil and cause severe wear. Perhaps you should look for leaking injectors which will wash the oil film off the cylinder walls. Diagnose BEFORE surgery???
No matter what the cause or motivation, good luck with the reults.
 
Full WOT, read 11.5 to spiking sometimes at 12-1 AFR.

I don't have a PCV valve, just the lines going to the catch can..... BUT!! There is a breather line that comes from the turbo oil collector, that goes to the valve cover/oil catch can lines.
But then again, that line was not connected when the fumes started to rush out.

I will be doing a compression test tomorrow morning and I will post results. I need to know this, because I'm heading to the track this Saturday. It's the last one of my season.

big question is, and I'm asking because I'm positive my compression will be fine. What else could it be, if it's not the piston rings?

-MSR
 
That's not a bad AFR. I like to be at about 12.1 at around 4k then end up around 11.1 to redline (for added safety). 300,000km is a good amount of miles though. She lived a happy life!

I do worry about the whole scavenge pump issue. I wonder if it's something there that accelerated the problem.

Please keep us updated!
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
Yes there is a wide band, I always, always keep an eye on it. even more at the track.

But I dont know, I think it might been rich on daily driving. The gauge didnt say otherwise.
Already making my list for engine rebuilt I'm at 2,100.

Here is my list if anyone wants to add, I'm going extremely basic.

Pistons

Cometic Head gaskets

ARP head studs

LMA's

Main studs* maybe

Dali billet gear

and bearings

What else am I missing?

-MSR
Click to expand...

see this thread?

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/154927-Semi-DIY-Mild-Engine-Build-for-FI/page11
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
Full WOT, read 11.5 to spiking sometimes at 12-1 AFR.

I don't have a PCV valve, just the lines going to the catch can..... BUT!! There is a breather line that comes from the turbo oil collector, that goes to the valve cover/oil catch can lines.
But then again, that line was not connected when the fumes started to rush out.

I will be doing a compression test tomorrow morning and I will post results. I need to know this, because I'm heading to the track this Saturday. It's the last one of my season.

big question is, and I'm asking because I'm positive my compression will be fine. What else could it be, if it's not the piston rings?

-MSR
Click to expand...

A compression test may not show a problem. If so do a leak down test.

I don't see how AFR's are going to show you if there is a problem with the internal of the motor. AFR's are a measure of combustion.

You may want to think twice about going to the track if you think the motor is going to let go.
This may drive up the cost of a rebuild.

You have not stated what the power level is for the car. This will influence what needs to be done.

You track your car. This needs to be considered. Most providing advice don't track there car so they don't know what needs to be done to make it reliable on the track. There is a huge difference between romping on it getting on a freeway vs a 30 min track session.
 
I run air to air and also water/meth. The meth kit it's only there to aid with cooling as its not tune for it.

Power is right at 450whp and that's what I will keep it at. I don't need more than that.

-MSR
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
I run air to air and also water/meth. The meth kit it's only there to aid with cooling as its not tune for it.

Power is right at 450whp and that's what I will keep it at. I don't need more than that.

-MSR
Click to expand...
450whp on a stock engine is a lot. The high miles is secondary imho.

Also, if you don't log and you're just occasionally looking at the AFR gauge you may not know if your meth injection hiccups. All it takes is a momentary spike into the 13-14s AFRs to cause detonation at the track. I'm spraying as well and on occasion the pump will cavitate and for a brief moment (or longer) there's no fluid spraying especially with a non-baffled tank while track driving. In my case, it's why I only spray 100% water. Do you have a fluid flow meter attached to your spray? If you do, and it's hooked up to switch to a safe map then you won't have this problem.

If you're tuned for pump gas AND spraying meth/water AND you're AFRs are already in the 12s then you're far too lean when you're not on the meth. A 50/50 meth solution will usually yield .5 to 1 point richer AFR.

I think some detonation occurred coupled with just over-driving a stock motor to 450wHP. Several guys on here can't sustain 400wHP for too long on the stock motor it seems. You're tracking it on top of that.

Btw.. KUDOS to you for tracking your NSX! That's just awesome man. At least now you can look forward to a motor build. If the leak down yields positive results and you want to continue to run your motor (assuming internals are fine) then i'd recommend you dial it down the boost to at least 400wHP. Not sure how long those ring lands will hold up at 450wHP.
 
Broken ring land very common on stock pistons with over 400whp. I'm waiting for mine to smoke so I can upgrade to forged piston too lol
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
Yes there is a wide band, I always, always keep an eye on it. even more at the track.

But I dont know, I think it might been rich on daily driving. The gauge didnt say otherwise.
Already making my list for engine rebuilt I'm at 2,100.

Here is my list if anyone wants to add, I'm going extremely basic.

Pistons

Cometic Head gaskets

ARP head studs

LMA's

Main studs* maybe

Dali billet gear

and bearings

What else am I missing?

-MSR
Click to expand...
Add time serts to this list.

also if I'm not looking to run higher rpm, would it be ok not to upgrade the retainers and springs? Rather spent that money on main caps.
 
Broken ring lands. Mine had the same symptoms you're describing. My compression test showed all cylinders except for #1 to have ~180psi. Cylinder #1 had 150. Cylinder leakage tests confirmed that #1 had a 20% leak. Once I pulled engine out and tore it apart- it was clear that it was in the bottom end, as the cylinder heads/valves pressure tested fine. I would definitely do all of what you have planned, and also upgrade to a water-to-air intercooler. Ditch the stainless steel charge pipes as well. Fun times ahead.
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
Add time serts to this list.

also if I'm not looking to run higher rpm, would it be ok not to upgrade the retainers and springs? Rather spent that money on main caps.
Click to expand...


Why not Heli-coils?

Helicoils.jpg


I used Heli-coils for my engine build.
 
MSR, did you upgrade your AEM FIC to something else? What boost and injectors are you currently running?
And yeah, don't track it otherwise you may be searching for a new block.
 

Similar threads

M
NSX Refresh Program proof.? NSX on BaT has a customer stating the car went through the entire refresh, including engine rebuild. Proof anywhere
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
Peter K.
P
DLockwood
My Spoon NSX
Replies
13
Views
1K
veilsidesfinest
V
D Baggins
The endless tweaking of my silver 91
Replies
14
Views
664
D Baggins
D Baggins
mskrotzki
  • Locked
****NOT AVAILABLE*** 1993 Black/Black 5sp
Replies
4
Views
1K
Honcho
Honcho
e-rod
'91 First CEL at 69k (stock), code #44
Replies
9
Views
600
Old Guy
Old Guy
Back
Top