-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
This is crazy! Health Care Insurance!
- Thread starter Dtrigg
- Start date
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
- Messages
- 2,500
It's really almost to the point that you're better off NOT having insurance and putting that $1600 in the bank account dedicated towards medical expenses and paying out of pocket for everything.
My new rate is out too, I'm now paying $382 a month through Kaiser for 0% deductible. I'm 39 going on 40.
Government really should be hands off and let these companies compete cross state line. When they tell companies what to do for what ever reason, that usually means someone is getting the benefit while others are paying for it. Basically they are picking winners and losers.
Before the Anti trust law suit against MS back in the 1990's, the tech companies were relatively new and don't know what was going on; therefore, they had no lobbyists. Now they spend $millions a year using lobbyists so the politicians can leave them alone. While at it, they figured out how to get tax breaks and government grands while making billions a year profit.
Companies are making record profit "dollars," but the margin in general have not changed. Just like saying the government is collecting record tax revenues. When the dollars devalues, obviously they will all generate "record" dollars year after year, even if they keep the same margin. Like they said about oil companies making big dollars but the reality is, they have not changed their margin since 1960's. In California, the oil companies are generating about 15 cent per gallon profit, when the Fed/State government are generating 37 cents in tax revenue, and yet the oil company is the evil one for creating high pay jobs while selling gasoline cheaper than Monster energy drinks.
This whole thing is designed to create a single payer program so the U.S government can further control the tax dollars. We are all just peasants.
Whether the companies survive is irrelevant, as long as the government continues to collect as much tax dollars as they can, and kill its competition...
None of them on the left side of the isle understand that insurance companies are also publicly traded companies, and most of 401ks are part of it. They think everyone can live off of social security even though it is about to go belly up.
God help this country.
Government really should be hands off and let these companies compete cross state line. When they tell companies what to do for what ever reason, that usually means someone is getting the benefit while others are paying for it. Basically they are picking winners and losers.
Before the Anti trust law suit against MS back in the 1990's, the tech companies were relatively new and don't know what was going on; therefore, they had no lobbyists. Now they spend $millions a year using lobbyists so the politicians can leave them alone. While at it, they figured out how to get tax breaks and government grands while making billions a year profit.
Companies are making record profit "dollars," but the margin in general have not changed. Just like saying the government is collecting record tax revenues. When the dollars devalues, obviously they will all generate "record" dollars year after year, even if they keep the same margin. Like they said about oil companies making big dollars but the reality is, they have not changed their margin since 1960's. In California, the oil companies are generating about 15 cent per gallon profit, when the Fed/State government are generating 37 cents in tax revenue, and yet the oil company is the evil one for creating high pay jobs while selling gasoline cheaper than Monster energy drinks.
This whole thing is designed to create a single payer program so the U.S government can further control the tax dollars. We are all just peasants.
Whether the companies survive is irrelevant, as long as the government continues to collect as much tax dollars as they can, and kill its competition...
None of them on the left side of the isle understand that insurance companies are also publicly traded companies, and most of 401ks are part of it. They think everyone can live off of social security even though it is about to go belly up.
God help this country.
Last edited:
Let's put this quote in perspective. I am going to assume that this is a family plan and not single individual coverage. I am also going to assume that this is not a managed care plan but rather perhaps a PPO or open network. Next, I am going to assume perhaps the copays and the deductibles are minimal. Without trying to pry into personal medical history, I am going to also assume that there may be some medical high risk individuals in the family.
Having said this, yes this seems to be a lot of money. But if any of my assumptions are correct - except for prior high risk medical history which Obama care is supposed to address - you do have some options of reducing your premium if you make other choices. Right?
The free market is a misnomer. In a free market, the greedy banks and traders who caused the crash would not have gotten away without punishment. They would have failed due to their own actions. Instead, they were deemed too "important" to fail so they got bailed out by taxpayers so they can continue to flourish while we all foot the bill. So, all it really means is that the top 1% are free to set up special rules for themselves. The only time those people are for a free market is if it will benefit them. They resent any framework of regulations within which to work and demand "freedom" in business practices bc it would put a check on their unparalleled greed, I mean "motivation to earn". Sorry for the rant, it's just sad and disgusting.
There are no other choices, it's a monopoly. Medical history, I have never been admitted to a hospital, knock on wood. Had two kids, want more. All other assumptions are correct.
Here's how I see it. The insurance companies can only keep 10% of the premiums collected, the other 90% must be spent on claims. My guess is this, if you're an insurance company buy the hospitals and charge 20 bucks for an aspirin so you get 2 bucks per aspirin instead of .0002 cents per aspirin. The reason medical procedures cost so much is so the insurance companies can get that 10% dollar figure higher and if they are the only game in town.....
It's like owning the only store and being able to only keep 10% from each gallon of milk, if no one else is selling milk then milk will be 100 bucks a gallon.
Very true. There's no free market when the big guys pay off our congress.
One of the fundamental flaws with our country.
To further narrow the discussion, I am also going to assume you are buying the insurance policy as a small business owner or individual policy and not receiving it as an employment benefit. If so, you are indeed in the highest "actuarial category." Having said that, the amount you are being charged for a growing family in an open network is not that high compared to other markets if the options in your benefit are generous.
Here in CA where there is perhaps more competition than elsewhere such premiums are not uncommon. And if indeed in your state insurers are regulated to spend no more than 10% on administration/profit, then you are indeed in one of the better regulated states - assuming the regulators are not in a "captured" industry. The norm here in CA is to seek 85% medical cost ratio.
So, you don't have option of joining a managed care program? Or if you and the family are relatively health increasing your copay/deductible and/or adding and HSA? Lastly, have you considered purchasing your insurance through a trade association such as your professional association, college alumni .... which tend to offer "group policy" for their members? Just asking.
Last edited:
Yeah small business owners are always sicker than someone with a job so the rates have to be higher. Those damn small business owners have nothing but time on their hands to hang out in the doctors waiting rooms. LOL. I'll believe that right around the same time the police stop writing tickets to motorists and start fining vagrants. ROTFLMAO
To save a couple of hundred dollars is just not worth it. If I could do any of the things you mention and cut the bill in half or more than I would pursue those options. I may be wrong but all the options you mention might save me a hundred or two a month which is a grand or two a year and most likely equal to tens of thousands of dollars worth of frustration. I would pursue any of the options you mentioned if they didn't involve hours and hours on the phone and hours of research for a hundred bucks a month, it's just not worth it. I'd rather do other things with my free time than be frustrated.
I did however check to see what the absolute cheapest family plan was and it is, Drumroll.........1076.18 a month. This plan not only leaves me wide open to risk it also would most likely be 15 minutes with the doctor followed by an hour on the phone arguing with the carrier about what they are not going to cover or how I failed to complete the backflip through their flaming cheerio 35 feet off the ground so they aren't going to cover that 300 dollar lab bill until I spend 500 dollars worth of my time fighting with them on the phone and or on hold or maybe finding then faxing a pile of crap to them only to find out its a different pile of crap they now want however the pile I faxed matched their description to a tee.
... 1600 a month is equivalent to TWO range rover payments a month, It's like buying 4 iPads a month every month, It's close to 400 subway sandwiches, ~450 gallons of gas. It's a ludicrous sum of money. No family eats 400 lunches a month, no family uses 450 gallons of gas a month, no family needs 2 range rovers nor do they need to buy 4 iPads every month and throw away the ones from previous months AND NO family uses 1600 dollars of health services a month. Now I'm sure families might get billed for 1600 in services a month but that's not the value, that's the artificially pumped up BS price for the services so that the 1600 a month in premiums can be justified. Even if i were to pay 20k a month it won't keep me alive forever. The examples I used above are meant to show just how wasteful it is to spend 1600 a month on anything. If any family actually did use 450 gallons of gas a month that family would be labeled as wasteful, however it seems to be "ok" that the same family pays 1600 a month for healthcare. While most everyone just sees that 1600 a month as expensive, IMO few see it as wasteful.
Can anyone name one single item or service that an average family spends 1600 a month on? Im sure there are exceptions. Some families do spend 1600 a month but in the case of the health insurance there is no exception. Everyone has to pay 1600 or they don't get insurance. Well I suppose they could pay a thousand but again how many families have a thousand dollar car payment or even mortgage for that matter.
Last edited:
I am not marginalizing your concern but to use a simple example, do you want an Earl Scheib paint or one that will cost you $7+K? You can buy insurance at pretty much what you want to pay; it all depends on the benefit package/coverage.
